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Adam, Eve and Satan - an Islamic perspective.

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posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:49 AM
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Indeed, Satan is an enemy to you; so take him as an enemy.
- Koran 35:6


Satans depiction in the Bible is incomplete as it leaves out a vital piece of information - a motive.
Why would Satan attempt to jinx Adam and Eve - a pair of innocent humans posing no direct threat towards him? Why would Satan risk suffering Gods punishment by corrupting Gods newest creation? IMO, the Bibles account regarding this is incomplete and only leaves us with more questions than answers.

Islam provides the complete back story to the events in the garden. According to the Islamic account, Adam had become the target of Satans wrath, not for anything he did, but because his creation led to Satans expulsion. The story in brief is that Satan - created from fire - considered himself superior to Adam who was made of clay. Satan arrogantly argued over his Maker over this, and ended up being punished. In retaliation, Satan vowed to mislead as many humans as he could. He said "My Lord, because You have put me in error, I will surely make disobedience attractive to them on earth, and I will mislead them all. Except, among them, Your chosen servants."- Koran 15:39

God replied saying those who follow Satan would end up in hell and that Satan only has power over those who follow him.

Indeed, My servants - no authority will you have over them, except those who follow you of the deviators. - Koran 15:42

And so, Satans personal mission started with Adam and Eve. The account of the garden took place after this.


One may ask if it was "right" of God to allow Satan to roam free to deceive and mislead humans. The simple answer is that Satan himself admits he has no power except over those who willingly follow him. Satan would wash his hands off his own followers by declaring...

I had no authority over you except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me; but blame yourselves. - Koran 14:22



edit on 2-12-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:31 AM
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I think that Satan is an entity that tests people to see if they are worthy of going to the next step. I respect Satan as one of gods creations but do not want to follow him. He only has power over those who follow him. It is important to note though that Satan's followers can cause chaos in your life with their free will and it can effect you if you do not have angels of god to protect you.

Remember, god allows Satan to test people so I am not sure that god is Satan's enemy, Satan follows gods rules. If you start to follow Satan, the angels will allow it but will intervene to protect those that are good. Satan runs this world right now, look at all the lies and deceit all over in the upper sects of society. There is a plan, one that I am observing but cannot completely comprehend yet.

I do not hate Satan. I respect him. I think his job may be important for some reason. At the time of Armageddon, Satan will go out and punish the sinners based on their participation in his program. Those who are good at heart, no matter what religion, will be allowed into heaven. I do not expect many to make it. Our conditioning is very strong and only god can open our eyes to the truth. Who or what is god? I do not know. Who or what is Satan? I do not know. I do feel they are somehow real though. Maybe they are some sort of collective consciousness or even something else that I and most other people cannot comprehend.

So if Satan was not needed, God would have got rid of him a long time ago. The Adam and Eve incident is used to show that these two got caught in the influence of Satan and they were now indebted to Satan. They lost the direct communication with god. They could have gone back to god, and it does appear that Adam at least did show signs of following god over Satan. I have not seen anything written about Eve though concerning this.

I want to follow the path of truth, the path of being friendly to those I meet. I see the effect of Satan in all classes of society, especially in the upper classes. People have purposely blinded themselves to seeing their flaws and created laws to protect their way of life. The desire of unneeded wealth or things we do not really need is a sign that we are under Satan's influence. Having money saved to live out your life is one thing in today's society but having too much is a different thing.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:35 AM
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That was a really fresh perspective, thank you OP.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:02 AM
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If God is omnipotent and omnipresent like the Koran says shouldnt he have known this was gonna happen.
If he was willing to create Satan and allow some of us to go to hell for being mislead then he doesnt sound all that merciful or loving.

Why do religious books always make god out to be such a nasty spiteful prick?

Sorry no offence intended Skorp, Your an intelligent guy, surely you can see all the contradictions in these books. God is all knowing, all powerful, all loving and all merciful but you dont do what he says you can burn in hell for eternity.

How do you reconcile these contradictions?
edit on 2/12/2013 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:30 AM
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the Koran is plagiarism, and a 5th grade writing level of knowledge which was stole from the Greeks after conquest and waring... it's the same with mathematics and all these other supposed inventions from the Arab world. They didn't invent, they assimilated the spoils of war.

I wouldn't take too much seriously in the Koran...



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:44 AM
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@IkNOwSTuff...''If God is omnipotent and omnipresent like the Koran says shouldnt he have known this was gonna'' .......................................................................... A better question is why would God create Satan in the first place if He knew satan would cause so much trouble? The honest answer is that God never said His job was to keep us all happy and satisfied all the time. He isn't anybodys personal genie. He made us, and He can subject us to His tests... As and when He pleases. He can do all that and can still remain omnipotent and omnipresent.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:48 AM
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sk0rpi0n
Islam provides the complete back story to the events in the garden.

You mean they added more fictional details to a creation myth that they stole from the bible. A creation myth that the Hebrews themselves stole from the Summerians and 'freely adapted' to suit their own culture.

Adam and Eve are just a creation myth. It didn't happen. They didn't exist. People can make up whatever colorful or 'profound' motives they want for Satan or Eve or for Adam. It's all fiction anyways.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Hmm,

Well the story is a Babylonian Creation Myth and while I am willing to entertain that the Koran is closer to the original story than the jewish or christian versions, they are all just stories.

Science tells us that modern humans descended from a group of at least 10,000 people to account for the genetic variation we see in populations today.

I dont believe in original sin, God does not punish us while on Earth, judgement comes at a later stage.

It is God's will that the Universe should become physical, God knew the suffering that would ensue.

But God created the Universe anyway, for a purpose, what that purpose is, I cannot tell you, because I do not know.

I can say that the purpose is important and Good, so Good that it overrides all the suffering that takes place in this and other worlds.

Humanity invented 'Satan' , he does not reallly exist.

Humanity invents Satan to explain why there is Evil in the Universe, but the reality is that there is Evil in the world because God decides to make a physical Universe like ours.

It is therefore from that point that bad things happen.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 11:29 AM
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sk0rpi0n
@IkNOwSTuff...''If God is omnipotent and omnipresent like the Koran says shouldnt he have known this was gonna'' .......................................................................... A better question is why would God create Satan in the first place if He knew satan would cause so much trouble? The honest answer is that God never said His job was to keep us all happy and satisfied all the time. He isn't anybodys personal genie. He made us, and He can subject us to His tests... As and when He pleases. He can do all that and can still remain omnipotent and omnipresent.


I really dont like the God you describe, can you not see how petty you make him sound? kinda like a kid with a magnifying glass burning ants for the hell of it or to satisfy his own curiousity regardless of what its doing to the ants.

By that logic parents should be allowed to torture and test their children in any way they see fit.

If hes Omnipotent wouldnt he already know the outcome of any tests?

You do not describe a loving god nor one that is worthy of my adulation.
That said I do believe in God, I just dont believe we will ever come to know him via books that basically amount to propaganda and manuals on how to control a populace.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 11:39 AM
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IkNOwSTuff

You do not describe a loving god nor one that is worthy of my adulation.
That said I do believe in God, I just dont believe we will ever come to know him via books that basically amount to propaganda and manuals on how to control a populace.



Yes,

My thoughts exactly.......



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


You're right, Islam definitely provides a more 'concrete' or clear story of the events of genesis, which is why I prefer it as a piece of text to the Biblical genesis. I don't follow any religion however.

What struck me about the Islamic version the most was the inclusion of Jinn. For those who don't know the complete back story; God apparently created angels first, which were purely servent energies to God and had no free will. God then created the Jinn, from SMOKELESS fire. The 'smokeless' part is left out a lot, which I disagree with since the interpretation changes completely. Being made of fire might suggest to one that it is a metaphor for 'fiery' characteristics, such as anger and hate, smokeless fire? That sounds like a primitive explanation for something not completely understood. God gave the Jinn free will or consciousness, and they were able to take/project any form they wished, and create their own reality in a sense.

God finally created Adam, or the human, from clay (the physical), and decided to give it free will. It is then when he summoned the Angels and Jinn to bow to Gods greatest creation. One of the Jinn, called Samjaza, rebelled like you said - out of pride and jealousy, and was cast out to the physical with humans. In a way, was Samjaza wrong? The God described in Christianity/Islam cannot be an all loving God, and this account shows God wants beings to bow down to their superiors, suggesting his/it's character. Samjaza felt the anger of being created and made to believe he is all loved by the almighty, only to have his God create what his God thought was a superior creation, and then to tell him to bow down to it. A feeling of grand betrayal I guess. It is an interesting story.

There is a great deal of overlap and references involving the Jinn, tracing back to the nephilim, the archons, the watchers, 'demons', the avatars of Hindu belief and so forth. This 'force' that can project any form and deceive/manipulate us has been described throughout all time - you even see it in modern age with UFO abductions, interdimensional beings, sleep paralysis and so forth. Technically, all these things could be explained by the Jinn concept - the unseen conscious energy that can project or take on a physical body in our reality, including using the victims mind to project what the Jinn desires the human to see. Perhaps that's how the concept of it arose, to explain the unexplainable...but they sure were convinced of these forces for a long, long time. It's strange how the bible never mentions a third creation, but rather Samjazas clan being fallen angels - which means from Christianity's POV both angels and humans have free will, and that demons were effectively bad angels.

From Christianity's POV, Samjaza was apparenty the snake of eden, who later convinced 200 other angels to go 'down' to Earth with him to take our women basically lol. Bastards. Straight from the book of genesis, Samjaza and his clan 'defiled' our women, and their offspring were said to be Demi-gods, and specifically giants (the figure of 10-12ft in cubits is referenced somewhere). These were the nephilim, who ruled us and effectively #ed things up so much that God permanently cast Samjaza and his crew to the physical until Judgement day. And of course, proceeded to flood the earth etc etc. This story can pretty much be found in the Epic of Gilgamesh, from about 2000 BC, or concepts of it earlier with the Sumerians and Enki/Enlil.

All these stories about our past and creation have a lot of overlap suggesting a strong source story. I mean its literally traceable to the first non caveman like civilisations. That includes the flood, Noah, the pre flood civilisations, the watchers and so forth. If only we still had the library of Alexandria!

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posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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I had no authority over you except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me; but blame yourselves. - Koran 14:22


This part kind of stuck out to me, just out of curiosity, why would the devil try and implement guilt on potential followers? What I mean is, why did he say that? Wouldn't you want people to think you could offer them the world if you were the devil and you had power to match gods etc etc.

I heard a really good theory the other day about satan (or just Lucifer as I prefer to call him now) that, as the king of deception, a being who's first language is lies, he didn't seem to be doing anything that terrible in the garden of eden. All he tried to do was offer man-kind knowledge, yes at the cost of paradise but adam and eve must have been shells of humans before! No opinion, just a ken and barbie doll for god. Which led to the theory that this great deciever has pulled off the biggest deception ever! (as one would expect from the prince of lies) That god is great deciever, and the only good (non-brainwashed) angel who found out and stood up to the god was cast down from Heaven. He then tried to save adam and eve from a life of brain dead servitude and as a result they were cast out for obtaining knowledge of good and evil.

God ever since, has acted like a tyrant, torturing non-believes and those that defy him, even torturing his followers to force them to prove their loyalty, and for an omnipotent being, he should already know that, he shouldn't have to torment people to find out. Also in good line with the profile of a tyrant and a dictator, he has a scapegoat, the one person who tried to do good and is forever cast in the history books as the single most evil being on the planet who is only capable of lies... and that is what I think the devils reasons were in the bible

edit on 2-12-2013 by iRoyalty because: Forgot to write stuff... haha!


Also, I would like to add that I am not trying to offend or knock your religion, two of my closest friends are muslims and I have no had the guts to tell them about this theory, I just wondered, as a muslim, what do you make of it?
edit on 2-12-2013 by iRoyalty because: peace



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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This is a reply to "IkNOstuff"



Why do religious books always make god out to be such a nasty spiteful prick?


LOL, hey if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck.
edit on 2-12-2013 by Trubeeleever because: Forgot to reply via the quoted post by IKNOWSTUFF.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 06:11 PM
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iRoyalty........... ''All he tried to do was offer man-kind knowledge,............. He then tried to save adam and eve'' ________________________________________ Satan saw man, as inferior and has also vowed to mislead as many humans as possible. Does this sound like someone you could trust? Its clear that Satan was no friend to Adam and Eve. He had nothing good to 'offer' them. His goal as he stated was to get people to disobey God. _________________________________________ As for Satan saying ''blame yourselves'' to his followers, he says that on the day of judgement.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 11:54 AM
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IkNOwSTuff
If God is omnipotent and omnipresent like the Koran says shouldnt he have known this was gonna happen.
If he was willing to create Satan and allow some of us to go to hell for being mislead then he doesnt sound all that merciful or loving.

Why do religious books always make god out to be such a nasty spiteful prick?

Sorry no offence intended Skorp, Your an intelligent guy, surely you can see all the contradictions in these books. God is all knowing, all powerful, all loving and all merciful but you dont do what he says you can burn in hell for eternity.

How do you reconcile these contradictions?
edit on 2/12/2013 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

why put the whole responsibility of saving people on God?
God is Merciful and Extremely forgiving. Just ask for it!

If someone knows that there is a God, Heaven, Hell and still continues to reject isnt he/she voluntarily choosing hell?



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 





why put the whole responsibility of saving people on God?
God is Merciful and Extremely forgiving. Just ask for it!

If someone knows that there is a God, Heaven, Hell and still continues to reject isnt he/she voluntarily choosing hell?



Total BS

An all powerful all loving god would not have made hell AT ALL!!!!

Which leaves us with 2 conclusions
1 God is not all powerful and has limited ability to shape the universe
2 God is not all that loving and merciful

Or option 3 which is the god of your fairytale books does not exist like he is portrayed



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by snoopy11
 



I dont believe in original sin, God does
not punish us while on Earth,
judgement comes at a later stage.


29:12 And those who disbelieve say to those
who believe, "Follow our way, and we
will carry your sins." But they will not
carry anything of their sins. Indeed,
they are liars.


But God created the Universe anyway,
for a purpose, what that purpose is, I
cannot tell you, because I do not
know.


51:56 And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.

this does not mean just ritualistic worship but to use our God given gifts/talents in a good way for the good of all the creations around us.

I can say that the purpose is important
and Good, so Good that it overrides all
the suffering that takes place in this
and other worlds.


Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I
will create a vicegerent on earth." They
said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who
will make mischief therein and shed
blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy
praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."


Humanity invented 'Satan' , he does
not reallly exist.


7:27 O ye Children of
Adam! Let not
Satan seduce you,
in the same
manner as He got
your parents out of the Garden,
stripping them of
their raiment, to
expose their
shame: for he and
his tribe watch you from a
position where ye
cannot see them:
We made the evil
ones friends
(only) to those without faith.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 



An all powerful all loving god would
not have made hell AT ALL!!!!

Oh I see, so an all Powerful all Loving God should do things according to your understanding?
Why interpret God by your own assumption of what "all loving" is?
God providing even atheists who deny and ridicule Him, their daily oxygen, water and food can be seen as very loving.
You are confusing "all loving" with "all saving"

the whole point of giving free choice/will is to let us decide who wants to go where.
If there is just one place to go after death then where's the choice?



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


I guess well just have to agree to disagree.

Indoctrination and brainwashing have done there work so well you cant even see how ridiculous you sound.
There is nothing loving or merciful about creating a place to send souls to suffer for eternity for something as simple as not being paid enough attention.

The god you believe in is petty and small
edit on 4/12/2013 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Fair enough, I actually did speak to one of my muslim friends about this theory I'd heard and we've been talking about it. I've noticed an inherent difference between the christian and jewish devil to the muslim devil. I thought that Islam, Judaism and Christianity all had the same stories about the begins of god, adam & eve and the devil but apparently not! So my theory doesn't make sense for the version in the qu'ran. I actually prefer the Muslim version, I like this bit:

"When God ordered the angels and those in their company to bow down to Adamp, they all did so except Satan, who refused out of pride and arrogance, claiming to be better than Adamp because he was created from fire, whereas Adamp was created from clay. Indeed, Satan was the first racist."

Source

One bit about this as well, in Muslim CULTURE (not religion) it is very common that if a Muslim man wants to marry someone of a different nationality/skin colour/religion (or no religion) it is heavuily frowned upon and may lead to the rejection of the person from the community. Is that not what the Devil did in Eden? Refused to show Adamp respect because he was different? What do you make of that?

(Again, not trying to offend, I find religious debate very interesting and I genuinely want to know your thoughts, peace)



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