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which it is as far as I can tell no matter how I look at it, or time it with a stopwatch, then as an operational objective, it would only make sense that they would use radar and plane swapping, to realize the objective as there are just too many unpredictable and unknown variables in the hijacking and successful piloting to the buildings, hitting at just the right levels to "sell" that idea that the building hit second,
reply to post by Char-Lee
Prototypes are not built until someone pays for them, and for the testing. No company is going to spend millions or more, on the off chance that someone might be interested in it. They build them after someone sends out an RFP, and finally offers a contract for a prototype, and flight testing.
Yes, prototypes are built and flown, AFTER there is interest in them and a contract is offered.
They were already in a race for a military contract and clearly if you are going to modify or the idea is to modify and existing aircraft prototypes would be built.
You have to prove that it couldn't have dove down and reached that speed. Which you haven't, and can't. If a plane can dive down, and remain under perfect control and reach Mach 1, there is absolutely no reason why 175 couldn't have done it.
They climbed to 52,000 feet, where they put it (the DC-8) into a half G pushover (a dive no steeper than 175 performed, and possible not as steep), at 45,000 feet, while in perfect control, the aircraft reached Mach 1.01 for 16 seconds. They were able to recover at 35,000 feet, with no damage to the aircraft.
The dive speed (Vd) is the absolute maximum speed above which the aircraft must not fly. Typically, to achieve this speed, the aircraft must enter a dive (steep descent), as the engines cannot produce sufficient thrust to overcome aerodynamic drag in level flight. At the dive speed, excessive aircraft vibrations develop which put the aircraft structural integrity at stake.
In that video, for the Airbus380 flutter test, they descended in a steady dive from 38,000 feet aiming for a Vd of Mach .96 (it's a big plane with lots of surface area) which to certify required some major modifications.
The south tower plane, according to you, would be able to exceed Mach 1.39 to Mach 1.4 when descending from the same height of 38,000 feet.. for an EAS of 510 knots, at sea level.
Vd is 420 knots for the Boeing 767 as set by the manufacturer based on wind tunnel and flight testing.
Here are those limitations, from Boeing...
At EAS (Sea Level), over test Vd - let's take a look at the range, beyond Vd for the Boeing 767, and we'll do it in full 5 knot increments, which is fair, since we're already at and beginning to exceed the threshold limit for structural failure, Vd limit, and even the smallest increments at that point can have grave effects, as the flight testers experienced with the Airbus A320 in the video contained in that link above i.
420 (Vd limit, by stress/flutter testing)
425 (which is .99 - Mach 1.0 equivalent airspeed and pressure at higher altitude of 22,000 feet - which is about the threshold from all those examples of near or just over Mach flight, while surviving, and this is very conservative, because such dives are mostly done from much higher altitudes as per your DC-8 ref cited above in which case an EAS of 425 represents an even higher Mach # up around 35,000 - 52,000 ft, well exceeding Mach 1.0 ++)
430, 435, 440, 445, 450, 455, 460, 465, 470, 475, 480, 485, 490, 495, 500, 505, 510 knots + (including windspeed, 515)
reply to post by NewAgeMan
So what's the point of having any kind of airspeed at sea level. They should just start using EAS for all their airspeed, instead of using actual speeds at the actual altitude they are at.
reply to post by NewAgeMan
Something else to think about that hasn't been thrown out there yet, that also helps to throw this theory out, is that radar data is in ground speed. Ground speed and airspeed can be pretty different, in some cases by 100 knots.
Observable facts and phenomenon cannot be discarded in favor of a biased viewpoint which is biased by having only one possible outcome, that's not scientific inquiry.
It just doesn't pass muster, it doesn't cut it.