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curious_soul
reply to post by NewAgeMan
NewAgeMan, I think OneFreeMan has asked you a reasonable question. Can you please provide a source for those 2 images?
December 19, 2005
Did the Bush Administration Lie to Congress and the 9/11 Commission?
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
by Dave Lindorff
One of the more puzzling mysteries of 9-11 is what ever happened to the flight recorders of the two planes that hit the World Trade Center towers. Now it appears that they may not be missing at all.
Counterpunch has learned that the FBI has them.
Flight recorders (commonly known as black boxes, though these days they are generally bright orange) are required on all passenger planes. There are always two-a flight data recorder that keeps track of a plane’s speed, altitude, course and maneuvers, and a cockpit voice recorder which keeps a continuous record of the last 30 minutes of conversation inside a plane’s cockpit. These devices are constructed to be extremely durable, and are installed in a plane’s tail section, where they are least likely suffer damaged on impact. They are designed to withstand up to 30 minutes of 1800-degree heat (more than they would have faced in the twin towers crashes), and to survive a crash at full speed into the ground.
All four of the devices were recovered from the two planes that hit the Pentagon and that crashed in rural Pennsylvania. In the case of American Airlines Flight 77, which hit the Pentagon, the FBI reports that the flight data recorder survived and had recoverable information, but the voice recorder was allegedly too damaged to provide any record. In the case of United Airlines Flight 93, which hit the ground at 500 mph in Pennsylvania, the situation was reversed: the voice recorder survived but the flight data box was allegedly damaged beyond recovery.
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.
There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, "It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings."
Now there is stronger evidence that something is amiss than simply the alleged non-recovery of all four of those boxes. A source at the National Transportation Safety Board, the agency that has the task of deciphering the date from the black boxes retrieved from crash sites-including those that are being handled as crimes and fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI-says the boxes were in fact recovered and were analyzed by the NTSB.
"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You’d have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."
The official word from the NTSB is that the WTC crash site black boxes never turned up. "No recorders were recovered from the World Trade Center," says the NTSB’s Lopatkiewicz. "At least none were delivered to us by the FBI." He adds that the agency has "always had a good relationship’ with the FBI and that in all prior crime-related crashes or flight incidents, they have brought the boxes to the NTSB for analysis.
For its part, the FBI is still denying everything, though with curious bit of linguistic wiggle room. "To the best of my knowledge, the flight recording devices from the World Trade Center crashes were never recovered. At least we never had them," says FBI spokesman Stephen Kodak.
What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.
If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.
Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s "War on Terror" and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.
Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.
www.counterpunch.org...
NewAgeMan
reply to post by leostokes
Ah so you're a Judy Wood DEW (directed energy weapon) Theorist.
I don't see why conventional explosives, albeit probably military grade nano-thermite aka super-thermite, which could actually be painted on in some applications, although in other places direct cutting charges would need to be strategically placed in "bands" around critical core columns, would not be sufficient. In every demolition, in this case a unique, top-down CD, there is always plenty of dust. In fact, the ejecting debris wave including massive quantities of cement dust (and everything else) was actually employed as part of the simulated gravity collapse ruse, in the sense that they tried, albeit unsuccessfully, to hide the explosive ejections in a rapid sequencing all around and down the building, behind the descending debris wave (which is comprised of lots and lots of pulverized cement) as seen in the video.
edit on 4-12-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)
NewAgeMan
reply to post by leostokes
It's cement dust, pulverized, nothing more. That remaining spire of core steel when it falls, leaves a dust cloud. It never turned to dust. Get over it (I don't mean to sound harsh).
The field of debris afterwards looked like a whole pile of match sticks.
But there were no twisted filing cabinets, phones, whole or even a large part of anything found in the rubble where pretty much everything was turned into very small pieces if that and yes much of it to dust I guess I see what you're talking about. Everything was annihilated, for the most part, by the time it hit the ground.
This is in large part the reason many people gravitate to the DEW hypothesis, but it's just not credible, even if it might be at some level true ie: if something other than conventional explosives was also used. Why go there, when what we want to be focused on is what can be proven to be true, and false.
So many people involved in this kind of investigative analysis and expose go right off the rails, I've seen it happen with a lot of them, from Morgan Reynolds, ex Bush Admin official who latched onto DEW and NRPT, which is absurd for a man of his stature if he was trying to be helpful, to another researcher I used to know who became convinced that the Twin Towers were empty on the day of the event with ALL the victims beings hoaxes of one sort or another - they all wanted to have the "inside scoop" on some aspect of it, and given what they were/are fighting against, basically they go insane. Jim Fetzer, who set out to debunk the Zapruder Film, (which proved JFK was assassinate by a shooter to the front of the limo) he too latched onto DEW and then no planer fakery stuff.
David Ray Griffin the theologian is the only or one of the only truly sane and reasonable and rational of all the well known 9/11 investigative researchers and some day I think he'll get high praise for his works in the form of his many books on the subject starting with "The New Pearl Harbor".
We might be an interesting "crew" taken together, but the general "9/11 Truth Movement" is certain to be seen at some future point in history, looking back, not as fringe crazies, as some would like for people to believe, (with their seething contempt with the disparaging label "truther", disparaging in their view, because it sounds like a pretty good thing to be actually) but the first real patriots of the 21st century, because what they've done has taken inordinate amounts of energy, time, perseverance, and courage and it's only to be expected that a few might have caved under the pressure, like the no planers, they went insane if only they'd realize that the plane really WAS a "missile"..
Now someone's going to come along and I'm sure try to use this open and honest talk against me, but that just shows more about their type of character, than mine.
Most people and most readers I think appreciate candor and honestly, no matter where they find it, even here down here in the hoax bin of ATS.
Thanks for your participation.
Best Regards,
NAM
edit on 4-12-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)
It's cement dust, pulverized, nothing more. That remaining spire of core steel when it falls, leaves a dust cloud. It never turned to dust.
It's cement dust, pulverized, nothing more. That remaining spire of core steel when it falls, leaves a dust cloud. It never turned to dust. Get over it (I don't mean to sound harsh).
liejunkie01
Oh, and I know Zaph commented on this but, the black boxes is one of my "hang-ups".
Zaphod58
reply to post by NewAgeMan
So paper going through the building (most likely protected by air being blown out) somehow equates to two 110 story buildings collapsing around and onto two small metal boxes?
There was a lot that has never been found from that day, that was totally destroyed by the collapse.
As for the black boxes, there are four or five that should have survived and didn't over the years, and a number that were never even found.
NewAgeMan
They're sometimes rendered inoperable due to damage but they're never completely lost.
leostokes
NewAgeMan
reply to post by leostokes
Ah so you're a Judy Wood DEW (directed energy weapon) Theorist.
I don't see why conventional explosives, albeit probably military grade nano-thermite aka super-thermite, which could actually be painted on in some applications, although in other places direct cutting charges would need to be strategically placed in "bands" around critical core columns, would not be sufficient. In every demolition, in this case a unique, top-down CD, there is always plenty of dust. In fact, the ejecting debris wave including massive quantities of cement dust (and everything else) was actually employed as part of the simulated gravity collapse ruse, in the sense that they tried, albeit unsuccessfully, to hide the explosive ejections in a rapid sequencing all around and down the building, behind the descending debris wave (which is comprised of lots and lots of pulverized cement) as seen in the video.
edit on 4-12-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)
Thanks for your reply and video.
I am not a DEW person. I am looking at evidence of steel turning to dust. How this happens I do not know. It is a new phenomenon.
I do not doubt that super-thermite was used in a controlled demolition at the WTC. The evidence in your video indicates use of explosives.
But there is more than that going on. You see it in your video. Falling girder assemblies trail dust before your eyes. What is the source of this dust?
Here is another example. Notice that much of the dust is rising or hanging in the air instead of falling. And the standing steel column disappears. Look at the dust spewing off the lower part of the column.
edit on 4-12-2013 by leostokes because: add spewing