The Incredible Kundalini

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Having had my own personal kundalini experience (so it would seem) as a direct result of the practice of TM, I can't accept your quick dismissal of the experience and what it means. Establishing your authority as a high-tech supervisor dealing with the nuts & bolts world does not in any way qualify you to pass judgment on the mental experiences of others.

FYI, Mine started with a creepy-crawly feeling starting at the base of my spin and working upward over successive periods of meditation. I had no idea of what was happening until I consulted a certified TM teacher. He put it rather succinctly, " ...It's your #. Your body/mind is rejecting its former being. I got through that stage and went on to higher levels. I can honestly say that the transformation has been incomplete for me. But I strongly suspect that it always is that way for everyone. BTW,how's your stuff doin'?

reply to post by Aliensun


I have no idea what you went through, but generally certain body sensations can be achieved by pressing of nerves.

If you describe your experiences in more detail, I can help you compare with what a Yogi feels, and also powers of Yogi achieved after the state of soul in which Kundalini is awakened.

You can exchange information via message.

My messages are due to concern over the flood of "Kundalini awakening" teaching experts, and the risk of disciples learning wrong practices and then getting dis-illusioned with Yoga.

reply to post by Aliensun


I don't dismiss the mental experiences of others.
I say it's valid for them, that it works for them
(it must -- they are promoting it).

But that doesn't mean there is any correlation with
known facts. Granted this whole field is rather
'up in the air' overall.

The using of my nuclear background was a metaphor
for depth of my knowledge, training and direct
experience in kundalini.

reply to post by GargIndia


The world is going to hell in a hand basket because
self-important people hide what little genuine
knowledge they have. The traditional models
not only aren't the soltution, they are the
PROBLEM. That goes for yoga, spirituality and
the rest. Religion is just a soul sucking burden
overall; what little oral history that goes along
wtih that is generally hopelessly corrupted.

I seem to recall replying just a little while ago
about upsetting nearly everyone.. proof in
point.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind taught me to focus on the solution not the problem. It's my conviction that the solution, or at least part of the solution, to the problem you perceive is increasing awareness of the underappreciated fields of comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism on the one hand and supporting parapsychological research on the other.

Allow me to introduce Jeffrey Kripal, one of my favorite authors.


“The cultural wars and debates out there between what’s usually called science and religion are again, I think simplistic to the extreme. The religion side is often parodied as the kind of most literalistic and intolerant forms of fundamentalism and the scientific side is often parodied as the most materialistic and intolerant forms of scientism. So you have pure faith on one side and pure reason on the other and we’re supposed to believe, somehow, that these two things don’t meet in the middle. I find that completely unconvincing.” -Jeffrey Kripal

“[...You] can’t think yourself out of the story you are caught in with the rules and elements of the very story in which you are caught. You can’t free yourself with the tools that the master provides you. You need a new story and new cognitive tools” -Jeffrey Kripal

reply to post by BlueMule


I know that you are big on comparative religion; and in a world
where people were rational, comparative religion would be
powerful. I know that I appreciate comparative religion.

For example, when I first learned that the Egyptians had
a trinity too.. and that the characters in that trinity
were much the same as the Christian trinity, it was
very eye-opening. Of course in the Christian trinity,
woman is disrespected as always, by removing the
traditional female component of the trinity and
replacing it with a genderless replacement.

This one observation demonstrates the extreme
harmfulness of that trinity system.

My friend, I'm not certain you understand the
blind, 'ignorant', self-loathing and hateful nature
taught to so many people; who then circle the
wagons around their mind and spirit; imprisoning
themselves from anything beautiful or true,
which could possibly liberate them.

I'd give anything for your comparative religion
approach to work on any scale.

That said, there are a few people who can be
reached by this method, and that is very
valuable.

Even a little real progress is very appreciated
and beats the hell out of 'my holy man can
beat up your holy man' crap.

Thanks,

KPB

reply to post by BlueMule


Now comparative mysticism..
that would have many of the same problems as comparative
religion, but ahhhh that would be a beautiful thing.

Of course mysticism is 'of the devil' to at least 50% of the
planet..

To accomplish change, there are always two ways to proceed;
one is to work from within ---- and since the time of Martin
Luther that has had glacial progress.. but a bit.

The other way to proceed is to 'shock jock' like the 60's hippies.
I'm certain you know which approach I'm taking..

"Loving others" is actually 'shock jock' as well.. as "genuine love"
is not something that is well received in this world.. it's like
invading someone's personal space.. only close family
members and friends are supposed to love another..

I must admit that my time at ATS has been very educational;
I've always been hated and misunderstood since I was plucked
from my mother's womb; and I'd hoped that the world had
changed a bit for the positive since the 60's..

but it's been 'more of the same'.

I will say here; that one thing I really suck at, is talking to
people who are prisoners of 'causing the problem' not being
part of the solution. I want to take them into my arms and
love them.. but being silent while they prattle on in lockstep
with the global psyop that imprisons the human race.. is
something I don't want to do. It's my own personal version
of 'hate the sin; love the sinner'. I don't claim to have good
social skills..they aren't really wired into my brain..

My lack of good social skills is probably the major factor
that keeps me from data dumping what I know into
a book. "Spiritual Engineers" don't make good spokesmen.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear

My friend, I'm not certain you understand the
blind, 'ignorant', self-loathing and hateful nature
taught to so many people; who then circle the
wagons around their mind and spirit; imprisoning
themselves from anything beautiful or true,
which could possibly liberate them.

I'm not certain either. But I am certain that focusing on the problem is not the solution. Focusing on the solution is.

I was caught in fundamentalism once, and Joseph Campbell's groundbreaking comparative work freed me. So I know it can free others too.

But some people can't be freed by words though. That's where psychic dream-work in the collective unconscious comes in.

reply to post by BlueMule

I'm not certain either. But I am certain that focusing on the problem is not the solution. Focusing on the solution is.

I don't want to focus on the problem either.

But when the majority of the world is caught in an 'evil hypnotic spell'
wouldn't the first step be to let them know they are hypnotized?
Just that would seem to be nearly impossible.

No amount of words will do that trick..

As for the unconscious work.. well.. that's another topic. I'm
not discussing that topic.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Now comparative mysticism..
that would have many of the same problems as comparative
religion, but ahhhh that would be a beautiful thing.

Of course mysticism is 'of the devil' to at least 50% of the
planet..

Of course. But a fully developed and widely accessible field of comparative mysticism would open doors for many people, imho. The comparative fields can change a myopic view into a panoramic view that sees past local religion, culture, nationality. It's not easy for one to maintain intolerant fundamentalism with that kind of view.

So, there are tools can CAN eventually expand the viewpoint of religion. But that's only half the solution. The viewpoint of science needs to be expanded too. That's where parapsychology comes in.

“When you change the way you look at a thing, the thing you look at changes.” ―Wayne Dyer

When religion can see mysticism clearly and science can see parapsychology clearly they will be primed for forming a synthesis.

reply to post by BlueMule

When religion can see mysticism clearly and science can see parapsychology clearly they will be primed for forming a synthesis.

You are talking 1000 years into the future.
Of course that future will never happen if we don't all
do our 1% right now.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Exactly. There are no fast and easy solutions so we must work toward a solution that will come to fruition long after we're dead. In the meantime that leaves religion and science in a limited and clumsy state. But I prefer to think of things in terms of their potentials not their limitations.

The comparative fields are new and well its rather lucky that humanity is in a position to make those fields in the first place. We MUST take advantage of them while we can.

"The origins of the discipline of religious studies in nineteenth-century Europe are not primary mystical or even religious. A highly developed secular sense is a sine qua non of the discipline and its social sustainability anywhere on the planet (hence its virtual absense outside the Western academy). I would like, though, to make a restricted and heterodox case that regarding the discipline as a modern mystical tradition could be useful in approaching the constructive tasks being explored in these reflections. In this, I am not suggesting that the discipline must or even should be read in this way.

Rather, I wish only to make the much more restricted, but no less unorthodox, case that some of the discipline's practices and practitioners (that is, those capable of forging a tensive mystical-critical practice out of the discipline's dual Romantic/Enlightenment heritage) can be read in such a way, and that, moreover, such a mystical-critical rereading of the discipline might be useful for the constructive tasks under discussion here, namely, the cross-cultural influence of religious systems toward a safer, more humane, and more religiously satisfying world." -Jeffrey Kripal

"If you can't see God in all, you can't see God at all." - Siri Singh Sahib

reply to post by BlueMule


Well I wish people luck who are up to participating in
this endeavor. Multiple relevant PHD's would be required
to be a real figurehead for this sort of thing. There's
nothing I could contribute.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Maybe not directly, but you could indirectly help to raise awareness of certain books and certain people like for instance The Hero With a Thousand Faces and An Introduction to Parapsychology. Have you read them?

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Hello again, KPB, I will try to be more concise.

Context is Plato's allegory of the cave (so handy).

Scenario: Chained cave dwellers (us), dude strolling by cave (kpb) ... does he leave them in their state 'cause the out-of-cave world is bright (and has lions)?

reply to post by BlueMule


I've read a lot of Joseph Campbell stuff, Frazier's Golden Bough,
my old mentors book which was a commentary on Massey, etc.

But I'm not interested in raising awareness of these books.

I have no interest in working within the system; I leave that to
others like you.

KPB

reply to post by Baddogma


I have had MANY conversations about Plato's cave. They usually
devolve into me telling someone that they are still a prisoner
of the cave and them telling me that I'm still a prisoner of
the cave ;-)

I guess for me the thing is this;

humans think that they are individuals, but in fact they are
not individuals at all from a certain perspective. There is
no helping any 'individual'; you can't pluck them out of the
miasma.

Now sometimes 'the field' undulates in a way that one little
corner of the field ('an individual') wakes up a little, due to
the wishes of 'the field'.

Then that 'person' often thinks they should 'help save their
fellows' - only it doesn't quite work that way.

But still the 'somewhat woken up 'individual' ' generally
feels overcome with love and the desire to help.

The confusion sets in, when the 'individual' listens to their
own rational mind some of the time and to 'the field'
some of the time.

But if you 'listen to the field' all the time, you become a
'mana personality' and no good can come of that.

It's a precarious balance.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


That's cool - there's plenty of roles to go around.

BlueMule
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

 

That's cool - there's plenty of roles to go around.

The hardest role of all is to create a new role!

I'm stopping the tracking of this thread; the poor fellow
who started it needs his chance to tell everyone how his
Kundalini method is wonderful or whatever.

Good luck to you OP! Go get em!

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by Baddogma

 

I have had MANY conversations about Plato's cave. They usually
devolve into me telling someone that they are still a prisoner
of the cave and them telling me that I'm still a prisoner of
the cave ;-)

I guess for me the thing is this;

humans think that they are individuals, but in fact they are
not individuals at all from a certain perspective. There is
no helping any 'individual'; you can't pluck them out of the
miasma.

That reminds me of these.

"All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists." -Huang Po

"For I am the first and the last. I am the honored one and the scorned one. I am the whore and the holy one." The Thunder: Perfect Mind

Now sometimes 'the field' undulates in a way that one little
corner of the field ('an individual') wakes up a little, due to
the wishes of 'the field'.

That reminds me of this.

'This is how a human being can change.
There is a worm
addicted to eating grape leaves.

Suddenly, he wakes up,
call it grace, whatever, something
wakes him, and he is no longer a worm.

He is the entire vineyard,
and the orchard too, the fruit, the trunks,
a growing wisdom and joy
that does not need to devour.'

-Rumi

Then that 'person' often thinks they should 'help save their
fellows' - only it doesn't quite work that way.

At this point, the 'person' is already a mana personality in the Jungian sense. The archetypes of the collective unconscious have been activated in his or her personal unconscious. Including the archetype of mana.

But still the 'somewhat woken up 'individual' ' generally
feels overcome with love and the desire to help.

The confusion sets in, when the 'individual' listens to their
own rational mind some of the time and to 'the field'
some of the time.

It takes a toll on the mind and body to be in an altered state of consciousness which is plugged into 'the field'. Especially when one is in a rat race instead of an environment that is designed to meet the needs of a mystic. For example a monastery or hermitage or Esalen. Of course, mileage may vary.

But sooner or later a kind of fatigue can set in. I've felt it. It leads to the dark night. Evelyn Underhill would say 'the dark night of the soul' is a necessary stage of mystical development. Of course the 'dark night' is followed by the 'bright day' of ecstasy. And again. And again. Back and forth... oscillating faster... and faster until its a blur. Holy Madness.

Then, the blur is ONE. That is to say, the mystic has gone beyond the pair of opposites and achieved a state of permanent mystical unity with God.