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posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 09:41 AM
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I am interested in finding out about the perceived outlook for the future of Islam. Some of the details that I am interested in are:

-Is the faith growing?
-What is appealing about it?
-What draws teenagers, and women to Islam in contemporary times?
-What draws people in non-islamic countries to Islam?
-What are some of the reasons why people would want to convert to Islam?
-What percentage of muslims are actually believers by choice rather than by default (eg. being born into a muslim family)?

All input appreciated.

[Edited on 18-11-2004 by aSEEKER]




posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 04:45 PM
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Anyone, someone, something at least?



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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Of course Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

It is concentrated in high growth population regions with captive audiences and with a message that appeals, and no need for tolerance of questioning the preachings.

Kind of like the evolution of Christianity, and much else.



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 06:50 PM
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'Allah came knocking at my heart'

MONDAY JANUARY 07 2002

'Allah came knocking at my heart'

www.thetimes.co.uk...

BY GILES WHITTELL

Anecdotal evidence suggests that there has been a
surge in conversions to Islam since September 11,
especially among affluent young white Britons

Six months ago Elizabeth L. ? a graduate in political
science, the daughter of affluent white British
parents, an opponent of terrorism in all its forms ?
climbed Mount Sinai at night to watch the desert
sunrise from its summit.
?It was the stillest, most peaceful place I?ve ever
been,? she says. ?I could hear my feelings come up
from within me, and in one surreal moment it all
seemed to come together.?

Last Friday, at 4.45pm, Elizabeth went to Regent?s
Park Mosque in Central London and converted to Islam.

It wasn?t hard. She didn?t even have to wear a scarf.
Witnessed by two Muslim men and nine other friends
squeezed into the imam?s office, she pronounced, in
Arabic learnt from a tape the night before, the words
she will repeat like a mantra five times a day for the
rest of her life: ?There is no God but Allah and
Muhammad is his messenger.? Afterwards there was a
modest celebration at Al-Dar on the Edgware Road.
Elizabeth and her well-wishers sipped mint tea and
smoked apple-flavoured tobacco from a hookah. There
was no booze, but she never drank much anyway.

Why has she done this? ?I know it sounds clichéd, but
Allah came knocking at my heart. That?s really how it
feels. In many ways it is beyond articulating, rather
like falling in love.?

It was, in other words, intensely personal. As she
read the Koran and prepared for her conversion, the
September attacks came and went and failed to derail
her spiritual journey, despite their proven link to a
fundamentalist Islamist terror network. In as far as
they featured in her thinking, they even elicited some
sympathy. All terrorism is cowardly, she says. ?But I
can see why people get fed up with the West.
Capitalism is enormously oppressive.?

Elizabeth is not a freak, and she is certainly not
alone. There is compelling anecdotal evidence of a
surge in conversions to Islam since September 11, not
just in Britain, but across Europe and America. One
Dutch Islamic centre claims a tenfold increase, while
the New Muslims Project, based in Leicester and run by
a former Irish Roman Catholic housewife, reports a
?steady stream? of new converts.

This fits a pattern set by recent history. Similar
surges followed the outbreak of the Gulf War, the
Bosnian conflict and the declaration of a fatwa
against Salman Rushdie. Some of the newcomers
doubtless do not share David Blunkett?s enthusiasm for
overt espousals of Britishness. They may even have
been caught on police videos flag-waving for the
Taleban. But most will speak our language and support
our football teams with roughly average fervour, and
some ? by all accounts a rapidly expanding minority ?
are white, more educated and more middle-class than
the Home Secretary himself.

These are some of Islam?s more surprising converts.
They have chosen their new creed over the world?s
other great religions having had the privilege of
choice, often confounding their own and their
families? prejudices in the process. They are highly
articulate and tolerant to a degree. They?re People
Like Us, only they?re not. They?re Muslims. They pray
five times a day, fast during Ramadan and hope to go
to Mecca before they die. They answer their mobiles
with ?salaam alaikum?.

Unlike Richard Reid, the would-be shoe bomber of
American Airlines Flight 63, Britain?s pukka Muslim
converts, as the label implies, tend to be
over-privileged, not under. Unlike James McLintock,
the Scots lecturer?s son being held in a Peshawar
jail, the fighting in Afghanistan has dismayed rather
than attracted them.

They are people like Elizabeth (who asked for her name
to be changed because she has not told her parents
yet); like Lucy Bushill-Matthews, a 30-year-old
graduate of Newnham College, Cambridge, who flirted
with Islam as a student in order to dismiss it, but
found it ?so simple and logical I couldn?t push it
away?; like ?Yahya?, whose father is a pillar of the
Anglo Establishment and who feels that Islam ?fits
right into British tradition?; and like Joe
Ahmed-Dobson, a son of the former Labour Minister
Frank Dobson who believes that Islam transformed his
spiritual life ? and helped him to get a first at
university.

If there is something familiar about these people?s
startling choices, there should be. We have been here
before, or at least Imperial Britain?s adventuring
classes and their moneyed gap-year successors have.

T. E. Lawrence fell hard for the romance and otherness
of Islam and came to embody them for succeeding
generations even though he never converted. Gai Eaton,
a former British diplomat now in his seventies, did
convert. His influential work Islam and the Destiny of
Man has become required reading for bright young
Anglo-Saxons turning to his adopted faith, often as an
expression of dissatisfaction with a Western culture
that appeared to have offered them everything.

Matthew Wilkinson made headlines when he converted and
changed his name to Tariq in 1993; he was a former
Eton head boy. He and Nicholas Brandt, another Etonian
and the son of an investment banker, swapped their
destinies as scions of the Establishment for a Slough
semi shared with four other Muslims.

Lord Birt?s son, Jonathan, forsook a fast track into
the ranks of the great and the good by converting in
1997 and starting a PhD on British Islam. So did a son
and a daughter of Lord Justice Scott, the scourge of
Tory sleaze and the chairman of the Arms to Iraq
inquiry.

And so did Jemima Khan. ?My decision . . . was
entirely my own choice and in no way hurried,? the
21-year-old daughter of the billionaire James
Goldsmith declared angrily after suggestions that she
had converted to marry Imran Khan, the former Pakistan
cricket captain. She noted accurately that the Koran
allowed Imran to marry any Muslim, Jew or Christian
(even though it bars Muslim women from marrying
non-Muslim men). She pointed out that Imran?s sisters,
far from being oppressed by his brothers-in-law, were
all educated professionals, and she insisted that she
found the tunic and trousers she would henceforth have
to wear ?far more elegant and feminine than anything
in my wardrobe?.

Her plea seemed hard to credit in the circumstances,
but it is a common one from educated British women
trying to persuade baffled non-Muslims that conversion
did not mean surrendering their independence or their
critical faculties.

For Lucy Bushill-Matthews, it meant the reverse. ?When
I went to Cambridge I joined the Christian and Islamic
societies and all three political parties,? she says.
?I wanted to explore all the possibilities in order to
dismiss them.?

She thinks of herself as pragmatic and not all that
spiritual, and as such she found Islam irresistible.
?It made sense of all the world?s faiths. It was a
clear, simple way to believe in God.? She claims that
it has even helped her to land good jobs by marking
her out as a free thinker. Her husband is a Muslim of
English and Iranian descent whom she married after
converting.

Yahya, too, chose Islam from the broadest possible
religious gamut. He was raised in a high-profile
London family that, because of his father?s position,
could not be seen to favour one faith over another. He
then took a degree in comparative religion ? the
theological equivalent of a blind wine tasting ? and
Islam, quite simply, won.

?It?s pure monotheism,? he says. ?It has a clear moral
system and an intact tradition of religious
scholarship. No scripture expresses its message of the
oneness of God as clearly as the Koran. It also has a
remarkably rich mysticism, which may be what appeals
to middle-class white Brits like me.?

Yahya converted five years ago. Now 33, he is at
Oxford writing a PhD on British Islam and is dismayed
not just by last September?s attacks, but also by the
mauling he says his religion has suffered since in the
media, even ? or especially ? at the hands of would-be
sympathisers. ?It?s very painful for all of us to be
associated with such sickening barbarism (of the
attacks),? he says. ?That?s not what we signed up for.
And now we can?t portray our religion in undiluted
form. It?s always mediated by someone else. It?s
incredibly frustrating to have Polly Toynbee trying to
save you from yourself.?

So does this wry and thoughtful soul share the credo
of al-Qaeda? Of course not. But the belief system in
which he and the terrorists co-exist has a serious and
often lethal public relations problem. The parallel
that comes to mind is with the environmental movement,
boasting tens of millions of members paying dues to
the World Wide Fund for Nature and the Sierra Club,
and a handful bent on burning down ski lodges in the
Rockies.

Well before September 11, well-heeled defectors from
Anglicanism to Islam proved so unsettling to
traditionalists that the Cold War author and
journalist Philip Knightley branded them ?the new
Philbys?. They were running from privilege, he
suggested, driven as much by a sense of guilt at what
they had as wonder at the mysteries of Islam. The fact
that Kim Philby?s father happens to have converted to
Islam was taken to support the accusation. Levelled at
Joe Ahmed-Dobson, it quickly seems ridiculous. The son
of the former Health Secretary is a child of new
Labour and the opposite of a rebel. He works on inner
city regeneration, finds spiritual satisfaction in
Islam?s ?constant impetus to do the right thing?, and
credits his first-class degree to the structure his
faith has brought to his life.

All those I spoke to agreed that Christianity claims
to answer the same yearnings for meaning and guidance.
All had rejected it on intellectual grounds. Why
grapple with mental puzzles such as the Holy Trinity
and Original Sin, they asked, when the alternative,
asserting neither, proved to them so much more
satisfying?It was this clarity that won over Batool
Al-Toma, the former Catholic who offers guidance to
converts at the New Muslims Project. She tells them
they need not change their names, advises women to
dress modestly but not alienate their families with
radical wardrobe changes and checks they have
converted freely. Islam is not generally a missionary
faith, she says. At one billion and counting, history
shows it doesn?t need to be.


Famous converts

Gérard Depardieu: The 54-year-old French film star
converted to Islam, but later converted back. He also
experimented with Buddhism and the Russian Orthodox
Church but says he has now found happiness in his
vineyard in Anjou. ?I work and keep quiet,? he told
French Vogue.


Jemima Goldsmith: The daughter of Sir James, the late
financier, she converted ?of her own conviction? in
preparation for her marriage to Imran Khan in 1995.
?It would seem that a Western woman?s happiness hinges
largely on her access to nightclubs, alcohol and
revealing clothes,? she said. ?However, as we all
know, such superficialities have very little to do
with true happiness.?



Eleasha Elphinstone: The wife of the boxing star
Prince Naseem Hamed switched faiths in 1998 before
marrying. The previous year the wedding plans had been
abandoned when Eleasha had a change of heart and
refused to convert.



Malcolm X: A former street hustler, Malcolm Little
converted to Islam in jail, where he was serving time
for burglary. He joined the Nation of Islam, was later
expelled and assassinated by Nation members in 1965.



Muhammad Ali: The 59-year-old boxer previously known
as Cassius Clay became an international role model,
revered as much for his political stance over Vietnam
and adherence to his faith, as for his showmanship in
the ring.



Cat Stevens: Born Steven Georgiou, the singer dropped
his nom-de-plume to become Yusuf Islam in 1977. His
moment of enlightenment had come the previous year,
when his brother gave him a copy of the Koran. From
being a superstar at the age of 19 when Matthew and
Son became a hit, Yusuf married a Muslim woman from
central Asia called Fawzia, and became a high-profile
spokesman for the British Muslim community.


Mike Tyson: The former world heavyweight champion was
sentenced to three years in jail for raping a
teenager. He converted to Islam before returning to
the ring in 1995. He told visitors that he had spent
his time studying the Koran, Machiavelli, Voltaire,
Dumas ?and a lot of Communist literature?.

Copyright 2002 Times Newspapers Ltd.

For more articles see (regulalrly updated):



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Of course Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

It is concentrated in high growth population regions with captive audiences and with a message that appeals, and no need for tolerance of questioning the preachings.

Kind of like the evolution of Christianity, and much else.


Mormons say they're the fastest growing. That may be due partially
to the way they are so interested in their geneology and they baptize the dead ancestors and make them Mormons.

Where is there proof that Islam is the fastest growing?

EDIT: If it's true, I would say that most of the world is allowed to change religions and read about other religions whereas the Muslims are not allowed or they'll be killed. If they could have the same rights we have, there might be more converts to Christianity, Buddhism or the myriad of religions around the world.

[Edited on 19-11-2004 by xenophile]



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 05:09 AM
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Seeker~

Thanks for drawing my attention to this thread.

-Is the faith growing?
Yes, it is the fastest growing religion in the world.

-What is appealing about it?
From what I've seen? Nothing. But then again, none of the religions are very appealing when analized from a non-believer's point of view. The Qur'an is full of contradictions, fatalistic (IOW, no free will), and Allah does not exude many qualities we look for in a deity. He is immensely jealous sometimes, nihilistic others. He is 'most-merciful', but then again harshly vengeful. The non-believer can only come to the conclusion that Muhammad claimed to be a prophet and took advantage of that power to give him sanction to rape, murder, plunder, and conquer.

-What draws teenagers, and women to Islam in contemporary times?
A woman in these times would have to be either totally ignorant of Islamic doctrine or completely self-loathing to actually convert to Islam. To be honest with you, I don't know why anyone would convert; the religion is so ludicrous it's almost an insult to the human mind that we're actually expected to believe the Qur'an is a miracle handed down from our Creator. But again, I've analized Islam from an unbeliever's point of view. I have to believe that if people knew what I know about Islam before converting they wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Women in Islam are basically second (or third) class citizens. Their rights are diluted, and their husbands have divine sanction to pretty much treat them like dirt, and that includes taking several wives and beating them.

-What draws people in non-islamic countries to Islam?
Probably because they believe all three religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are basically the same and either have a predisposition to dislike the other two or just want to try something different.

Like all religions, when you speak to a Muslim about Islam or go to a Mosque you don't get the whole picture. Especially in the west, you're not going to hear the imam urging the men to leave their families and their possessions to go wage war for Allah, although this does happen on occassion. You might get a bunch of crap about peace and tolerance and love, and that's just great, believe me, but that's not Islam. So I'm sure they have ways of making it as appealing as possible while revealing as little as possible about Islam's true nature.

In America, religion's all commercialized anyway. I doubt they really care if you're devout. They just want your money. Maybe I'm too cynical, but this is how I see religion these days. If you're wondering, my religious persuation is probably closest to deist.

-What percentage of muslims are actually believers by choice rather than by default (eg. being born into a muslim family)?
The vast, overwhelming majority. Islam is not growing by the convert, it is growing because their populations are exploding wherever they're found--the Middle East, Asia, Europe, etc...A lot of these people--particularly in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia--are tought almost nothing but the Qur'an during their entire childhood.

More than any other religion, Islam is about control. Control over every aspect of life, from when and how to pray to women's menstrual cycles to using a toothpick to blowing your nose. Free thought and critical thinking are utterly shunned, at least when it comes to religion. You don't question God, you don't question His Messenger, and you don't question or doubt their commandments. You can actually be killed for doing so, particularly in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and this is based on Muhammad's own words.

In conclusion, there is nothing of real value to Islam, unless you're like President Bush and think even lousy faith is better than no faith. Why anyone would worship a god that does not want to love or know you, and does not care for your love ([051.056-057]); why anyone would worship a god that purposely created people so he could watch them burn and suffer for eternity in hell ([032.013]), is totally beyond me.

But I don't think even the most knowledgable Muslim is conscious of this, or cares, much less the convert.

[Edited on 19-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:25 AM
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Thanks to you all for your contributions.

My own take on this is that we got a whole lot of people who will be forced to be miserable till they go to paradise, but in the meantime, it about enduring some of the most unreasonable things that man's mind has been able to think up.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:26 AM
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All terrorism is cowardly, she says. ?But I
can see why people get fed up with the West.
Capitalism is enormously oppressive.?



Yup, people get fed upw ith the west because capitalism is enormously oppressive, but they don't have a problem coming over here opening up party stores and the likes....
Oppressive indeed ...



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 06:10 PM
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But I don't think even the most knowledgable Muslim is conscious of this, or cares, much less the convert


Ahhh, the arogance of this statement is appalling.
Ibn Iblis, you with your 6month "study" of Islam, a study which has been proven to be highly inadequate, incomplete and biased in many threads on ATS, claim to know MORE about Islam then those who have PRACTICED and lived with it their WHOLE life... how very arogant that is... I guess that saves me the trouble of replying to the rest of your post...

Anyways, to answer the original question:

-Is the faith growing?
Yes, it is. Mostly because Muslims have a lot of babies, western people don't. The number of converts is growing because of various modern interpretations of Islam, which do not contain old tribal laws and rely only on interpretation of one book, the Qur'an.

-What is appealing about it?
The complexity and simplicity of it at the same time.
It contains all the stories of Old and partialy New Testament, but the basic of belief is doing good deeds and being a good person, and not "going to church". The new spiritual interpretations of it give people the kind of belief they cannot find anymore in churches.

-What draws teenagers, and women to Islam in contemporary times?
-What draws people in non-islamic countries to Islam?
-What are some of the reasons why people would want to convert to Islam?

What I stated before, the spiritual interpretations. THere is a difference between women in Islam, and women in tribal practices of Saudi Arabia. Ibn Iblis is obviously not aware of it. There are entire countries, muslim nations, which respect equality of men and women, consider religion to be a spiritual guide to better life and do not consider shariah to be the law.
Teenagers see new hope in Islam. People do not feel happy in modern countries, despite all the tech gadgets we have and drunken parties we can go to. They want more, a spiritual aspect that is somehow lost in christianity, at least they think so. That is why they turn to not only Islam, but other religions too, like buddhism.


-What percentage of muslims are actually believers by choice rather than by default (eg. being born into a muslim family)?
Same as in ALL other religions, most are born into Islam.
I don't think that there is a religion on this planet which has more converts then born-ins.
Most muslims are satisfied with their religion because it contains both, belief and works, as a fundamental part of it.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 07:55 PM
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Personally, the reason that I do not like Islam is that it's emphasis is on pain and not pleasure (there are so many references and verses in the Koran attesting to that), and it is too "after-life looking" for me than other faiths with a whole lot of "you may not do this, that, and the other".

Heck, I probably have been marked for making this comment, but I reserve the right to my opinion.



posted on Nov, 21 2004 @ 12:57 PM
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ISLAM AND TERRORISM
BY
DR. ZAKIR NAIK

MUSLIMS ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS AND TERRORISTS

Question:

Why are most of the Muslims fundamentalists and terrorists?

Answer:

This question is often hurled at Muslims, either directly or indirectly, during any discussion on religion or world affairs. Muslim stereotypes are perpetuated in every form of the media accompanied by gross misinformation about Islam and Muslims. In fact, such misinformation and false propaganda often leads to discrimination and acts of violence against Muslims. A case in point is the anti-Muslim campaign in the American media following the Oklahoma bomb blast, where the press was quick to declare a ‘Middle Eastern conspiracy’ behind the attack. The culprit was later identified as a soldier from the American Armed Forces.

Let us analyze this allegation of ‘fundamentalism’ and ‘terrorism’:

1. Definition of the word ‘fundamentalist’

A fundamentalist is a person who follows and adheres to the fundamentals of the doctrine or theory he is following. For a person to be a good doctor, he should know, follow, and practise the fundamentals of medicine. In other words, he should be a fundamentalist in the field of medicine. For a person to be a good mathematician, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of mathematics. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of mathematics. For a person to be a good scientist, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of science. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of science.

2. Not all ‘fundamentalists’ are the same

One cannot paint all fundamentalists with the same brush. One cannot categorize all fundamentalists as either good or bad. Such a categorization of any fund amentalist will depend upon the field or activity in which he is a fundamentalist. A fundamentalist robber or thief causes harm to society and is therefore undesirable. A fundamentalist doctor, on the other hand, benefits society and earns much respect.

3. I am proud to be a Muslim fundamentalist

I am a fundamentalist Muslim who, by the grace of Allah, knows, follows and strives to practise the fundamentals of Islam. A true Muslim does not shy away from being a fundamentalist. I am proud to be a fundamentalist Muslim because, I know that the fundamentals of Islam are beneficial to humanity and the whole world. There is not a single fundamental of Islam that causes harm or is against the interests of the human race as a whole. Many people harbour misconceptions about Islam and consider several teachings of Islam to be unfair or improper. This is due to insufficient and incorrect knowledge of Islam. If one critically analyzes the teachings of Islam with an open mind, one cannot escape the fact that Islam is full of benefits both at the individual and collective levels.

4. Dictionary meaning of the word ‘fundamentalist’

According to Webster’s dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ was a movement in American Protestanism that arose in the earlier part of the 20th century. It was a reaction to modernism, and stressed the infallibility of the Bible, not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. It stressed on belief in the Bible as the literal word of God. Thus fundamentalism was a word initially used for a group of Christians who believed that the Bible was the verbatim word of God without any errors and mistakes.

According to the Oxford dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ means ‘strict maintenance of ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion, especially Islam’.

Today the moment a person uses the word fundamentalist he thinks of a Muslim who is a terrorist.

5. Every Muslim should be a terrorist

Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the antisocial elements of society, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. Whenever such an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word ‘terrorist’ is generally used for a person who causes terror among the common people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to selective people i.e. anti-social elements, and not to the common innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace for innocent people.

6. Different labels given to the same individual for the same action, i.e. ‘terrorist’ and ‘patriot’

Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters.

It is therefore important that before a person is judged, he is given a fair hearing. Both sides of the argument should be heard, the situation should be analyzed, and the reason and the intention of the person should be taken into account, and then the person can be judged accordingly.

7. Islam means peace

Islam is derived from the word ‘salaam’ which means peace. It is a religion of peace whose fundamentals teach its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world.

Thus every Muslim should be a fundamentalist i.e. he should follow the fundamentals of the Religion of Peace: Islam. He should be a terrorist only towards the antisocial elements in order to promote peace and justice in the society.

WAS ISLAM SPREAD BY THE SWORD?

Question:

How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword?

Answer:

It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.

1. Islam means peace.

Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).

2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.

Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.

3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary.

The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book ’Islam at the cross road’ (Page 8):

’History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated.’

4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.

Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.

5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.

Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.

6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.

The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.

7. Indonesia and Malaysia.

Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, ’Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?’

8. East Coast of Africa.

Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, ’Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?’

9. Thomas Carlyle.

The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book ’Heroes and Hero worship’, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: ’The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.’

10. No compulsion in religion.

With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:

’Let there be no compulsion in religion:
Truth stands out clear from error’
[Al-Qur’an 2:256]

11. Sword of the Intellect.

It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:

’Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord
with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are
best and most gracious.’
[Al-Qur’an 16:125]

12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.

An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?

13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.

Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?

14. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson.

Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson rightly says, ’People who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of the Arabs, fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has been dropped already, it fell the day MUHAMMED (pbuh) was born’

Mohsin Zubair Khan



posted on Nov, 21 2004 @ 05:13 PM
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Islam does not mean peace. It means submission.
    ISLAM, AL-
    means submission. derived from the root S.L.M. Muslims believe that it is the first religion, from Adam, Noah, Abraham, etc. See also SURRENDER.

    Some have also said that Islam means peace, but there is no evidence of such a usage of the word, and Muslims have not substantiated this. Muhammad used to send letters to various rulers of the surrounding countries and tribes, inviting them to surrender to God, and to believe in him as a messenger of God. He always ended his letters with "Aslem, Taslam!", which means "surrender and you will be safe".

    While it may be possible to deceive those who do not speak Arabic or those who do not know much about Islam, propaganda like this does not fool someone who knows the Arabic language and the teaching of Islam, a religion that was established by violence and still believes in violence as a principal and as a way of life. The relationships between Muslims themselves and between them and all other nations have always been based on terror and still is. Islam and Salam are two incongruous words that share no common ground either in name or in substance.

    In order to find the meaning of a certain word in the Arabic dictionary, it is essential to search for the three letter infinitive verb which is called the root. Many words can be derived from the same root, but they don't necessarily have to have any similarity in their meaning. The word Islam, which means ‘submission’, is derived from the infinitive Salama. So is the word Salam which means ‘peace’ and so is the verb Salima which means ‘to be saved or to escape from danger’. One of the derivations of the infinitive Salama means ‘the stinging of a snake’ or ‘The tanning of the leather’. Hence, if the word Islam has something to do with the word Salam i.e. ‘Peace’, does that also mean that it must be related to the ‘stinging of the snake’ or ‘tanning the leather’?

    Muhammad used to send letters to the kings and leaders of the surrounding countries and tribes, inviting them to surrender to his authority and to believe in him as the messenger of Allah. He always ended his letters with the following two words: "Aslem, Taslam!". Although these two words are derived from the same infinitive Salama which is the root of Salam, i.e. ‘Peace’, neither one of them implies the meaning of ‘peace’. The sentence means ‘surrender and you will be safe’, or in other words, ‘surrender or face death’. So where is the meaning of ‘Peace’ in such a religion that threatens to kill other people if they don't submit to it?

Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the antisocial elements of society, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. Whenever such an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word ‘terrorist’ is generally used for a person who causes terror among the common people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to selective people i.e. anti-social elements, and not to the common innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace for innocent people.


This is hilariously dishonest. The author of this column, after having already lied to us about the meaning of the word "Islam" is counting on the unbelievers to take him at his word, and not go to the Qur'an and hadith for validation, whereupon, of course, his words are utterly discredited. Islam, practiced at the fundamental level, includes jihad, one of the pillars of Islam. My own copy of the Qur'an (online here)describes jihad:
    Al-Jihâd (holy fighting) in Allâh’s Cause (with full force of numbers and weaponry) is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars (on which it stands). By Jihâd Islam is established, Allâh’s Word is made superior (His Word being Lâ ilaha illallâh which means none has the right to be worshipped but Allâh), and His religion (Islam) is propagated. By abandoning Jihâd (may Allâh protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and the Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihâd is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim, and he who tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart wish to fulfill this duty, dies with one of the qualities of a hypocrite.
That is the epitome of fundamentalist Islam, and Islam as it is practiced properly.

Yes, Islam is about peace and justice--for Muslims. Read the Qur'an and you see clearly that worshipping of others besides or along with Allah is injustice inandofitself. It is an act of war. And it doesn't take an extensive, life-long study of Islamic doctrine to come to that conclusion. Jihad is such a pervasive, fundamental aspect of Islam that you cannot study it without being overwhelmed by the jihad element of it. Follow the bouncing ball:
    Allah's apostle said:

    [Sahih Bukhari 001.008.387] "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."

    [Sahih Muslim 001.0033] I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

    Allah says:

    [004.080] He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allâh, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a watcher over them.

    [002.190] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).
Incontrovertable.

[Edited on 21-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]



posted on Nov, 21 2004 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by paperclip



But I don't think even the most knowledgable Muslim is conscious of this, or cares, much less the convert


Ahhh, the arogance of this statement is appalling.


Sorry luv. Your god has pre-ordained who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. He has purposely prevented trillions upon trillions of people from seeing his truth so that he may watch them burn in hell.

Links to verses provided. You can't refute it.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by aSEEKER
Personally, the reason that I do not like Islam is that it's emphasis is on pain and not pleasure (there are so many references and verses in the Koran attesting to that), and it is too "after-life looking" for me than other faiths with a whole lot of "you may not do this, that, and the other".

Heck, I probably have been marked for making this comment, but I reserve the right to my opinion.


You have, in a way, actually made quite an accurate assesment of Islam.
The focus of the faith is the afterlife. We live this life to prepare ourselves for what comes next. What we do in this life directly determines our fate in the after-life. Islam is full of regulations, as you said. How to lead a righteous life, what to eat, what is forbidden, what is allowed. It requires a lot of inner strength to overcome the temptations, to follow the rules correctly. Islam is not the only religion that requres such self-control, a constant inner strugle (jihad).
Others do it too, more or less. Thínk of a life of a buddhist monk, for example.

I am not so sure what you mean by "emphasis on pain". Do you mean all the references of punishment and eternal damnation in fires of Hell? Or did you have something else in mind.




Posted by Ibn Iblis:
You can't refute it.


Your theories have already been refuted many times. I won't repeat myself here.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 09:57 AM
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paperclip: Yes, there are very graphic descriptions of hell and torture for sinners headed for hell. That's what I meant by the emphasis on pain.

On a separate and amusing note though, the reward for men in heaven are fine virgins, which leaves me wondering how women will be rewarded in heaven?



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by paperclip
Your theories have already been refuted many times. I won't repeat myself here.


There is nothing theoretical about my posts, and you will not repeat yourself because you've never proven my FACTS to be false in the first place, except to simply say I'm wrong, which, of course, is not much of an argument.

Don't flatter yourself.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 05:26 PM
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iblis is shataan and shataan will go to hell with all its followers,
knowledge has two kinds one leads to wrong way or false
and the other leads to true way or truth
knowledge bascially gets inspiration from heart and when heart becomes full of sins then it takes the form of wrong way the ibn iblis is on
fully misunderstood and a brain person having no knowledge and try to talking about some religion to whom the professor doctors of world have verified that the predictions Muhammad (PBUH) had made before 14 centuries ago are still valid and these are people who are non muslims
so, mr iblis if you are on truth take Allah the Lord of heavens and earth as a proof today and say openly that you have chosen the wrong way and then be ready after your life for your deeds and also trying people away from truth, and that day is no longer when you get it, just get ready for it....................................






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