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CERN: Higgs-Boson decays to two fermions!

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posted on Nov, 30 2013 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by snoopy11
 


"wasnt serious" AND IF U CAN BE SERIOUS WHEN TALKING,,oppss about Physics/Particular ly fields of, resonance and, strings that go Higgs in the light,,, well,, bad me i guess.




posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 03:58 AM
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Not having a physicist's understanding of this I am intrigued because from my simple perspective, not only is the way matter comes into being of importance but what I also want to know is, where does intelligent design start to play its part. (I do appreciate that not everyone agrees with the notion of I.D. but I feel that these two things have concerned man for millennia and will do until we understand their workings).



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 04:39 AM
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Shiloh7
Not having a physicist's understanding of this I am intrigued because from my simple perspective, not only is the way matter comes into being of importance but what I also want to know is, where does intelligent design start to play its part. (I do appreciate that not everyone agrees with the notion of I.D. but I feel that these two things have concerned man for millennia and will do until we understand their workings).



Hmm, I am not a great lover of Intelligent Design,

so I cannot answer your question.

To me God if God exists is an inifinite conciousness , that is by neccessity good.

But imagining that I could or would know the mind of a being without end is something I cannot envisage.

Who knows why God is like that or does this ?

Why are the fundamental forces like they are ?

Probably because there was no other way to gain Gods purpose.

What is God's purpose ?

I dont Know..... it's a mystery..



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by Aleister
 

Little bit premature, since the existence of higgs boson,
is not yet proven beyond any reasonable doubt



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 05:18 AM
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Angelic Resurrection
reply to post by Aleister
 

Little bit premature, since the existence of higgs boson,
is not yet proven beyond any reasonable doubt



Its at 4.1 sigma which is reasonably close.

Reference



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 05:32 AM
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jimmyx
the billions of dollars in construction costs, along with the tens of thousands of man hours by scientists and engineers over the span of ten years and this is what is important??...I've always thought there is more to this, but, aside from scientific curiosity, I have heard nothing that justifies this amount of treasure and toil.


Are you even serious? The groundwork is being laid out to make Star Trek happen and you think its meh? Much of todays math used for space travel is based on the scientific curiosity of men whom predate jesus.



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by snoopy11
 


You've added some very good posts. People with math skill will get a lot out of the math, and your verbal descriptions convey the data well. Is there some way to further summarize the math into verbal, to give further direction to the extent of this new finding? Thanks!
edit on 1-12-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 08:18 AM
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Aleister
reply to post by snoopy11
 


You've added some very good posts. People with math skill will get a lot out of the math, and your verbal descriptions convey the data well. Is there some way to further summarize the math into verbal, to give further direction to the extent of this new finding? Thanks!
edit on 1-12-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)


Hey Thanks,

You made a very interesting original post too, but I dont know what math you wanted to further summarize into words.

So maybe you could be more specific ?



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 09:02 AM
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Angelic Resurrection
reply to post by Aleister
 

Little bit premature, since the existence of higgs boson,
is not yet proven beyond any reasonable doubt



Quite right!

The standard model makes me laugh nearly all the time, it does not take into account quantum interactions at Planck scales.

I predicted the decay of the so called Higgs before the discovery by stating that they would narrow in on a fleeting particle and name it the higgs.

What is really going on is the more power they are able to smash matter toegther they will discover every increasingly exotic particles but each time the power is increased the particles will decay at ever increasing speeds.

The ultimate truth is... Matter is made of twisted space-time. There is no matter only space time. Mass comes from the space-time density required to create stable particles.

The entropy of a particles is dictated by this density. The smaller the particle the higher the entropy.

Eventually they will reach a point of 100% matter to energy conversion... in effect a flattening of space-time... This better not happen here on earth however as it would release a shockwave with enough energy to cause a global ELE.

Peace,

Korg.



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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snoopy11

Aleister
reply to post by snoopy11
 


You've added some very good posts. People with math skill will get a lot out of the math, and your verbal descriptions convey the data well. Is there some way to further summarize the math into verbal, to give further direction to the extent of this new finding? Thanks!
edit on 1-12-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)


Hey Thanks,

You made a very interesting original post too, but I dont know what math you wanted to further summarize into words.

So maybe you could be more specific ?


Since I don't speak the language (barely passed algebra after three attempts in high school), as much of it as possible, or please just keep posting on this thread as I consider it yours as much as if not more than "mine". After awhile my goal was to push the envelope out as far as it can go, so if you'd like to add to that point-of-view, please do so - mainly on how can this discovery potentially have real world effects.

Good to have you posting and on-board at ATS, and please put up threads on topics you know quite a bit about which you think either may interest people at this site or you think should be shared with a wider audience. Thanks again!



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by Korg Trinity
 


That's a good far-out take, and possibly accurate. Years ago I surmised on another website that gravity was time. That as soon as time/space was introduced one of its immediate results was gravity as a facet of what we call time. Since I'm not a trained scientist, and have little if any understanding of math language, I can't blackboard that for you but it felt right at the time and whenever I deep-concentration on it, which I haven't done often. Your theory seems to overlap that concept, so if you have any further stretching of that envelope, please feel free to play with it.



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 09:57 AM
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Aleister
reply to post by Korg Trinity
 


That's a good far-out take, and possibly accurate. Years ago I surmised on another website that gravity was time. That as soon as time/space was introduced one of its immediate results was gravity as a facet of what we call time. Since I'm not a trained scientist, and have little if any understanding of math language, I can't blackboard that for you but it felt right at the time and whenever I deep-concentration on it, which I haven't done often. Your theory seems to overlap that concept, so if you have any further stretching of that envelope, please feel free to play with it.


I feel your intuition sketches the same concept yet you lack the scientific training to realize the truth of it.

The question of what is time is one that I think not one scientist can answer fully. Time is a measurement of change. At our level of reality there are many force interactions that create the laws of nature. however, at the fundamental level of reality there is only one force that governs everything... this force is not a traditional force it is simply known as potentiality, which is of course a factor of math.

This is why all scientists agree regardless of field, that Mathematics is the language of the universe. This is why when we find a mathematical model that seems to fit with observations we can state that it is with all likelihood a reality.

Now to understand Math as we all do from quite an early age 1 is followed by 2 and then 3 and so on... however for this to be true there needs to be separation... it is this separation that we perceive as time.

At the fundamental level of reality space-time is essentially just a random sea of potentials... it's when randomness forms order that the threshold of coherence is crossed and it is this process that is what we call time. It is also why we call Space, Space-time. Because one cannot exist without the other... they are the same thing.

Entropy is the evening out of energy at it's basic description, so it is easy to see that the less coherent particles have a higher entropy than those with more mass.

The so called Higgs field is a partial view of the truth but unfortunately because it mathematically validates an area of the standard model that was missing it won't be challenged and accepted for further study by the consensus for quite some time if at all.

Peace,

Korg.



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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Aleister
- mainly on how can this discovery potentially have real world effects.

Good to have you posting and on-board at ATS, and please put up threads on topics you know quite a bit about which you think either may interest people at this site or you think should be shared with a wider audience. Thanks again!


Well ok.....

But that would be tough, I could say that this discovery is an affirmation of Peter Higgs's theory, but that would be boring.

The LHC was really built to find the first glimpses of dark matter not just Higgs and that so far has proved elusive for the LHC but not for the space experiment AMS apparently.

The Higgs while related to mass is not related in any way to gravity.

There wont be any new technologies just yet from this discovery, which again could be boring to some, just science for sciences sake but it is really quite important to have all this data about Higgs. The Higgs Field gives apparently all the elementary particles mass apart from the Higgs itself. And although that kind of stuff makes up just 4.9% of the known universe its the kind of stuff that we are made of.

The vast majority of the Universe remains hidden from us, and we are as children in the dark.



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 10:38 AM
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snoopy11

Aleister
- mainly on how can this discovery potentially have real world effects.

Good to have you posting and on-board at ATS, and please put up threads on topics you know quite a bit about which you think either may interest people at this site or you think should be shared with a wider audience. Thanks again!


Well ok.....

But that would be tough, I could say that this discovery is an affirmation of Peter Higgs's theory, but that would be boring.

The LHC was really built to find the first glimpses of dark matter not just Higgs and that so far has proved elusive for the LHC but not for the space experiment AMS apparently.

The Higgs while related to mass is not related in any way to gravity.

There wont be any new technologies just yet from this discovery, which again could be boring to some, just science for sciences sake but it is really quite important to have all this data about Higgs. The Higgs Field gives apparently all the elementary particles mass apart from the Higgs itself. And although that kind of stuff makes up just 4.9% of the known universe its the kind of stuff that we are made of.

The vast majority of the Universe remains hidden from us, and we are as children in the dark.


Ah, don't judge the people at ATS by my or anyone else posting on this thread lack of math expertise. The ATS readers likely make up a higher intelligence level than average (they can at least read and write, for instance, or at least most of them), and a significant part of those have a fluency with math. It's just not my language, and I never understood it (for instance, the posts you left with math symbols are not translated to what I can read, so they look like hieroglyphics to me). But your analysis will be read by many people who know what you are talking about. So you can put up threads and posts on pretty high level topics with complicated language structures like math, and get into some good sharing of ideas and things people know about.

Then apparently there are thousands of readers coming to ATS, and some may have wandered to this thread or even this late into the thread, and know they have something to share but just don't want to sign up as a member. To those folks, come on in, the water's fine. There are two options as a member, you can see the letters as white on a dark gray screen, or as black on a white screen. I use the gray background, but you can try them both.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by Mamatus
 


99.9% of scientists are atheists?

Absolute bunkum of the highest order.

www.theguardian.com...

blogs.discovermagazine.com...

I believe in God, but I value the critical thinking and capability that science promotes. I believe that science also allows a person who has a faith in God, to better appreciate the glory of His works, His creation, which comprises all existence.

I see no mutual exclusivity where science and religion are concerned, but I do insist that one should never attempt to use one to justify the results of the other. I am perfectly happy having both concepts in my own brain, and I am not alone in that by any stretch of the imagination. Your 99.9% allegation holds no water what so ever.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by Korg Trinity
 


Thanks, very good post. Yes, time is change, or in other words, we perceive it "so everything doesn't happen all at once". The language symbolized in math is one that we need more of here at ATS, threads in which people who comprehend the symbols can communicate more of what they know. The sense I had that gravity doesn't have a particle attached to it, but is a function of time (of separation, as you say) which itself can be called a graviton - but not a graviton composed of matter but a function of time/space. Maybe time/space/gravity may be an accurate label.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by snoopy11
 


This goes back to which came first, the chicken or the egg, Life or God (or whatever). The bible has 'God created' but we are surely a step behind that first information by asking did God create life or the other way round? Do we really understand where God fitted in when communities asked their ancestors for answers.

I am wading slowly through the Bagadav Gita at the moment, although its got 64 pages of 'introduction' before I get to the actual writings.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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jimmyx
the billions of dollars in construction costs, along with the tens of thousands of man hours by scientists and engineers over the span of ten years and this is what is important??...I've always thought there is more to this, but, aside from scientific curiosity, I have heard nothing that justifies this amount of treasure and toil.


Im getting a little sick and tired of replying to posts like this... Do you know how well funded this kind of science is?

Not very.

LHC cost approximately 20billion, paid for by over 100 nations, over a period of about 15 years. Work that out... its not a lot of money considering the cost of other projects that governments put money into.

Iv said it before, but i will say it again.

Yearly revenue (in the US only) in beer consumption = 100billion. If Americans drank 20% less beer, they could put it all in a pot and make an LHC somewhere... or at least build something similar.

Yearly lost tax revenue from the catholic church = 70billion.
cost of the war in iraq (approximately 10 years) = 800billion (probably more)
Amount the Uk government rewarded to the banks and financial institutions for basically destroying the economy = 500billion.

SO before you make such ignorant and quite frankly stupid comments, do some research.



The LHC will continue to produce interesting physics and deepen our understanding. The hope is the push to higher energies will yield some new physics, thus far i think we have only been proving that the standard model is actually correct and in the current energy regime, no new physics (beyond the standard model) was observed.

What a lot of people don't really consider when it comes to research that falls into the science for science sake, is that most of the money spent gets spent in development of technologies that allow us to do what we could not do before. All this equipment isn't just sat on the shelf of local businesses. What normally happens is that a scientist goes to an engineer and says "I want to do this" and the engineer says "Well that is a little bit like x but we have to improve 20 things about it" They both go away and work on fixing these 20 things, discovering about 20 more problems along the way. The final product is a company is given specs and designs for a product and they produce it, too learning what the scientists and engineers did... which comes out as a hand down like situation.

Ever been to an aquarium? Well, back in the 90s when scientists wanted to build a 8 meter radius acrylic sphere in a nickel mine to detect solar neutrinos...Everyone probably said the same thing "Waste of money, you guys are crazy, what will come from it that the rest of us can enjoy!"

Well, to build that acrylic sphere it was required to take thermoformed acrylic panels underground and bond them together. Now acrylic bonding had been done before, but never as complex or as large a scale as this. At the time the world leaders in acrylic bonding were hired. They probably lost money on the project, however in the process of being given the task, they learnt many many new things and eventually were able to scale up their own operations to allow them to bond together almost any shape and size pieces of acrylic. So where does the Aquarium come in?

Well the walk through 'underwater' type aquariums are only made possible through this technology. There were some aquariums that had small tunnels, usually straight and not very very long... that was the limit at the time. After that same company had learnt and developed, thanks to a science project, they basically became the worlds premium suppler of randomly shaped bonded acrylic.

While that isn't an example of a neat gadget or item that makes daily life wonderful... it is a example that everyone can related to... So next time you go to one of those aquariums and say "WOW" that WOW is partly thanks to 'pointless science' as people call it.
edit on 2-12-2013 by ErosA433 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:39 AM
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My thoughts...

Exactly !


jonnywhite
What I hate about all this is it's not improving our world, it's just reaffirming what we thought we already knew. Its not allowing us to live more comfortably or to live longer or to save the children. You see what I mean? It's just something for physicists to pass around and boast about when being interviewed.

If this knowledge is used to make a real difference, THAT is news.
edit on 30-11-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:45 AM
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Thank you for this ..!!!

Something I can sink my teeth into..


Korg Trinity

Aleister
reply to post by Korg Trinity
 


That's a good far-out take, and possibly accurate. Years ago I surmised on another website that gravity was time. That as soon as time/space was introduced one of its immediate results was gravity as a facet of what we call time. Since I'm not a trained scientist, and have little if any understanding of math language, I can't blackboard that for you but it felt right at the time and whenever I deep-concentration on it, which I haven't done often. Your theory seems to overlap that concept, so if you have any further stretching of that envelope, please feel free to play with it.


I feel your intuition sketches the same concept yet you lack the scientific training to realize the truth of it.

The question of what is time is one that I think not one scientist can answer fully. Time is a measurement of change. At our level of reality there are many force interactions that create the laws of nature. however, at the fundamental level of reality there is only one force that governs everything... this force is not a traditional force it is simply known as potentiality, which is of course a factor of math.

This is why all scientists agree regardless of field, that Mathematics is the language of the universe. This is why when we find a mathematical model that seems to fit with observations we can state that it is with all likelihood a reality.

Now to understand Math as we all do from quite an early age 1 is followed by 2 and then 3 and so on... however for this to be true there needs to be separation... it is this separation that we perceive as time.

At the fundamental level of reality space-time is essentially just a random sea of potentials... it's when randomness forms order that the threshold of coherence is crossed and it is this process that is what we call time. It is also why we call Space, Space-time. Because one cannot exist without the other... they are the same thing.

Entropy is the evening out of energy at it's basic description, so it is easy to see that the less coherent particles have a higher entropy than those with more mass.

The so called Higgs field is a partial view of the truth but unfortunately because it mathematically validates an area of the standard model that was missing it won't be challenged and accepted for further study by the consensus for quite some time if at all.

Peace,

Korg.





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