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Labor As Seen from Down Under: Fair Wages and Decent Benefits Profit Everyone

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posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by LocalGenius
 


your neighborhood and city are an extension of your couch and fridge. They are part of your home.

When one place has a better quality of life, pay, schools, etc.. Every foreigner in the world will try and get there.

This makes the ELites in their home country more oppressive. AND takes away the hard fought quality of life for the offspring of those that 'got it done'.

The ELites use immigration as a weapon against the civilized world. The services and entitlement programs are then exploited by people who did NOT have GENERATIONS work to build said systems.

That is FREELOADING, MOOCHING, and THEFT!

Supply/Demand... if someone is a working class man then having foreigners come in is PRIMARILY DUE TO WHAT..

CHEAPER LABOR!! that SHAFTS the locals.. and makes conditions slightly worse everywhere.

By undercutting.. or even competing for a jod with a foreigner. you are allowing the ELites to win.

There are 5 billion poor people in the 3rd world..

I would rather them stay there.. And leave the western world for the offspring of those that MADE IT..




posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 05:47 PM
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HanzHenry

LocalGenius

HanzHenry

ldyserenity

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius
 


Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?


edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb



It's totally ok if you're Amish


that is an extremely DISRESPECTFUL response. Only one group of people deserve the right to live how they wish?

really?.. So, Everywhere else that a people has built something nice any immigrant from the world over should be allowed to FILCH off part of it?



Let me ask you a question buddy... What exactly have you built? Now unless your a builder of some sort I'm guessing the answer is nothing... You just think you're entitled to everything where you live because your mother gave birth to you there?

How would you feel if one day you woke up decided you want to pack your bags and make a new life for yourself in a new country but they wouldn't let you, I know personally I'd feel like I have no freedom at all.


I have paid through the loss of branches from my family tree. Countless loved ones whom are NOT there due to the price of my family. (societal speaking) Their sacrifices were for THEIR OFFSPRING.. not those the world over.

YES, as a member of a society that is BETTER than OTHERS... it is MY SOCIETY, and because I was "born there" then YES..

Someone born somewhere has MANY MORE rights than a foreign invader.. you don't agree? How about I come crash on your couch and eat out of your fridge..

I mean, I am only hungry and looking for better... for me and mine.

Why are you "entitled" to the food in your fridge?


In other words you've paid nothing. Others paid with their lives and you just want to freeload off of that sacrifice.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius
 


your neighborhood and city are an extension of your couch and fridge. They are part of your home.

When one place has a better quality of life, pay, schools, etc.. Every foreigner in the world will try and get there.

This makes the ELites in their home country more oppressive. AND takes away the hard fought quality of life for the offspring of those that 'got it done'.

The ELites use immigration as a weapon against the civilized world. The services and entitlement programs are then exploited by people who did NOT have GENERATIONS work to build said systems.

That is FREELOADING, MOOCHING, and THEFT!

Supply/Demand... if someone is a working class man then having foreigners come in is PRIMARILY DUE TO WHAT..

CHEAPER LABOR!! that SHAFTS the locals.. and makes conditions slightly worse everywhere.

By undercutting.. or even competing for a jod with a foreigner. you are allowing the ELites to win.

There are 5 billion poor people in the 3rd world..

I would rather them stay there.. And leave the western world for the offspring of those that MADE IT..



Sorry but no, your neighborhood and city are not an extension of your couch and fridge mate and as for cheaper labour, that is not their fault man, that's the decision of the person who employs them, so blame the employer not the worker.The system that runs our country's needs to be changed to make it a more fair world to live in, we should not carry on living in a system that takes freedoms of where we can call home and where we can't away. The fact of the matter is an "Immigrant" Is a human being like me and you trying to have a happy life, like me and you. We was all born on this planet but we cannot call this planet our home... We can only call 1 country of this planet our home... Does that not sound pathetic to you? Especially in this "advanced" day and age...



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 06:41 PM
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Hi folks,

I don't know what to write.

I am looking at both sides of the equation.

One individual decides that he worked to improve "his" society.... Now he blames the elites taking advantage of foreign cheaper labour - if it is the work of elites - why are they not under fire?

Indeed, if the immigrants didn't come to places like the US, Canada, UK, Australia, we proved that we have the power of going over to India, China, Russia.... to employ them to build products we consume. Again, this is the work of the elites.

There are yet others who argue that we are all born on the same planet, that where ever opportunity knocks, that is where one must go - if the labour is cheap, then that is who we employ in order to make a difference between our contribution and that of the rest of the workers. So, the cheaper labour is important to bring our prices down and profits up?

I myself do not know where I stand. I am the son of immigrants who arrived in 1967. I don't see arguments about the exact split in the timeline as necessarily being all that productive.

I personally feel bad about the erosion I see occurring. But I also reason that it is because of the industrial revolution that the world has had such an increase in population. We wouldn't be talking about near 7 Billion in populace, hadn't it been for the improvement of modern medicine.

But said improvements in medicine has an underlying infrastructure that caused this that also created the internet. Education has improved all over the planet, improving competitiveness of products being natively built in those once "Third world countries" - that used to struggle with the debt that was imposed on them for the money they were forced to borrow to "improve" their countries. It also allows for Amazon to be built and companies all across the planet to be represented, independent of race, chaste or creed. So, companies spring up in India offering IT services (which can also be learned and built on the net - courtesy of Linus Torvalds) that are absolutely amazing in delivery.

Are we to deny those self-made "experts" entry in to the most competitive economies of the world? Isn't it our competitiveness that we were once so proud of?

Yet, all of this transpires, and we sit and squabble over who has what. It is true that there is an elite who earn unbelievable sums of money, but we are simultaneously in a day and age where competing with "elites" has been easier than ever in a global product driven marketplace.

A lot of the elite compete by simply fitting themselves somewhere in the middle - reminds me of Hong Kong at one point in time.

I don't personally wish that my own job gets sent abroad or my fees come down... but I don't feel like there is a lot of choice with 7 Billion people now competing fiercely from all over the planet. But I also don't feel that we can keep our lifestyles - if near 7 Billion start to compete for the resources. I don't blame people for wanting to compete.

I accept the fact that there is a lot of cheating. I believe it is the cheating that really gets to people the most - especially when the cheating is done by said "elite". It is a dog-eat-dog world out there... I wish I could be friends with a lot of you, because all of your troubles - at some point in time I expect to face these too - or maybe I am facing those troubles now.

I think the world is in for a catastrophic change soon.... I don't believe that we've built the world with a lot of "understanding". I believe the world has gone in for patchwork after patchwork and that is the mess/order we find ourselves in today and it won't last very long without getting really messy.

I've made so many posts about my positions on various issues over the years.... Everyone has, I guess, once you've come to planet ATS - where conspiracy theories are conspiratorial in and of themselves.

But, what are we going to change? The way the world works or the way that we ourselves work? I personally see a better possibility of the second idea. Not that everyone will gain from these things... there are apparently winners and losers abound - where do we assign blame?



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 06:57 PM
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The problem in Australia in regards to foreign labor,
Is that when the time comes to make people redundant, the companies are making the long serving AUSTRALIAN workers redundant because they cost more. They keep the cheap foreign labor that just got the job.

a law needs to be created, so that if redundancies need to occur then foreign labour are the first go.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 07:08 PM
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If you can't hire cheap labour in Australia, hire them in China and ship the product.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 07:53 PM
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sensibleSenseless
If you can't hire cheap labour in Australia, hire them in China and ship the product.


Go to WAR and spank China, cull the overpopulation and eliminate the debt and pollution coming from there.

I mean, how can it be dog eat dog,, when the euro/Anglos are not allowed to do any biting?

Fine, the whole world is competing to be the lowest bidder in a sweatshop somewhere?

Then lets go REAL OLD SCHOOL..

Pillage the third world Viking style.. Less job competition, Solves the over population (which is the third worlders fault anyway), and gives us something to do..

better to kill the completion that having a RACE TO THE BOTTOM in wages/lifestyle.
edit on 2-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:25 PM
link   

HanzHenry

sensibleSenseless
If you can't hire cheap labour in Australia, hire them in China and ship the product.


Go to WAR and spank China, cull the overpopulation and eliminate the debt and pollution coming from there.

I mean, how can it be dog eat dog,, when the euro/Anglos are not allowed to do any biting?

Fine, the whole world is competing to be the lowest bidder in a sweatshop somewhere?

Then lets go REAL OLD SCHOOL..

Pillage the third world Viking style.. Less job competition, Solves the over population (which is the third worlders fault anyway), and gives us something to do..

better to kill the completion that having a RACE TO THE BOTTOM in wages/lifestyle.
edit on 2-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb




You do know Anglos/Euros are the minority on this planet LOL?

What if the world decides to cull you before too many of you begin thinking as you?



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:44 PM
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Aazadan

HanzHenry

LocalGenius

HanzHenry

ldyserenity

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius
 


Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?


edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb



It's totally ok if you're Amish


that is an extremely DISRESPECTFUL response. Only one group of people deserve the right to live how they wish?

really?.. So, Everywhere else that a people has built something nice any immigrant from the world over should be allowed to FILCH off part of it?



Let me ask you a question buddy... What exactly have you built? Now unless your a builder of some sort I'm guessing the answer is nothing... You just think you're entitled to everything where you live because your mother gave birth to you there?

How would you feel if one day you woke up decided you want to pack your bags and make a new life for yourself in a new country but they wouldn't let you, I know personally I'd feel like I have no freedom at all.


I have paid through the loss of branches from my family tree. Countless loved ones whom are NOT there due to the price of my family. (societal speaking) Their sacrifices were for THEIR OFFSPRING.. not those the world over.

YES, as a member of a society that is BETTER than OTHERS... it is MY SOCIETY, and because I was "born there" then YES..

Someone born somewhere has MANY MORE rights than a foreign invader.. you don't agree? How about I come crash on your couch and eat out of your fridge..

I mean, I am only hungry and looking for better... for me and mine.

Why are you "entitled" to the food in your fridge?


In other words you've paid nothing. Others paid with their lives and you just want to freeload off of that sacrifice.


I am a disable veteran injuries are service connected. And like my mother, father, step father and brother. Served.

Yep, both my mother and step father are retired military. Just like over 1/2 the people in my family. Every GENERATION.

And, I speak for all my ancestors deceased, since they are my kin.. foreigners are NOT welcome around me.. EVER.

for they are freeloaders filching and RUINING the GREAT QUALITY of LIFE bestowed upon MY BLESSED PEOPLE..

and as through EVER civilization that was great.. MASSIVE IMMIGRATION will and has always been the DOWNFALL..

paying for your own citizens welfare is GREAT.. but they have to be real citizens..



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by FyreByrd
 


Cost of living - There is about a 30 to 40% more expendable income in Australia. That's the good news.

However, it costs on average about 50% more for everything in Australia as compared to the US. Housing and health care are especially bad with about 60% more out of pocket. You can find those numbers from sites all over the 'net.

We checked because someone at my husband's company casually asked him if he'd relocate to somewhere like Australia, China or Mexico for two to three times his current salary. We checked to see how much of a boost that would really be. Turns out we'd need it just to break even with our current standard of living here in the evil old US with it's crappy expensive systems!

So don't tell me that we have it bad here. You likely just don't understand things from your end of the pond. Run the numbers sometime. Yeah, we pay different for some things here and people get paid less, but they also have to pay less for everything else they need in turn.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:59 PM
link   

HanzHenry

sensibleSenseless
If you can't hire cheap labour in Australia, hire them in China and ship the product.


Go to WAR and spank China, cull the overpopulation and eliminate the debt and pollution coming from there.

I mean, how can it be dog eat dog,, when the euro/Anglos are not allowed to do any biting?

Fine, the whole world is competing to be the lowest bidder in a sweatshop somewhere?

Then lets go REAL OLD SCHOOL..

Pillage the third world Viking style.. Less job competition, Solves the over population (which is the third worlders fault anyway), and gives us something to do..

better to kill the completion that having a RACE TO THE BOTTOM in wages/lifestyle.
edit on 2-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb


You're saying kill millions of children and women just to make you a little bit richer... Wow. I'm really sorry for whatever has happened in your life to make you see the world this way man, I really am.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:24 PM
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HanzHenry

ldyserenity

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius
 


Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?


edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb



It's totally ok if you're Amish


that is an extremely DISRESPECTFUL response. Only one group of people deserve the right to live how they wish?

really?.. So, Everywhere else that a people has built something nice any immigrant from the world over should be allowed to FILCH off part of it?


According to laws, yes. It's retarded if you ask me. I should be able to not let in certain elements if I want that's not true, there are deed restrictions for certain areas too, forgot about that and they can turn anyone down for any reason look into deed restricted properties.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by puzzlesphere
 


Only you can answer that question...do what you feel would best suit your personality. I dunno if it was me I'd keep the way things are now But I'm a chump, so...



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 11:54 PM
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LocalGenius

so blame the employer not the worker.The system that runs our country's needs to be changed to make it a more fair world to live in, we should not carry on living in a system that takes freedoms of where we can call home and where we can't away. The fact of the matter is an "Immigrant" Is a human being like me and you trying to have a happy life, like me and you. We was all born on this planet but we cannot call this planet our home... We can only call 1 country of this planet our home... Does that not sound pathetic to you? Especially in this "advanced" day and age...


Well said.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 01:39 AM
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Its not USA, is the economic model. You're just getting late to where the rest of the world is, i don't want to sound like a prick, but there IS a reason every third world country hates USA, and that is exactly what you're saying about walmart, i never thought your government would allow that there though, i just thought you "exported" that model and kept good jobs and a clean economy behind your doors.

But that's how it is in the rest of the world, you're payed # by the same big companies that profit big time in your country helped by the connections money make with politicians, (they have been time after time discovered to directly PUT candidates in government by the extreme funding of propaganda) after their #ty products being relentleslly presented in tv an movies as a hype or cool spot, then they dissappear in the mist of controversy if ever caught underpaying or basically using slavery as workforce.

Governments are replaced from one company to another, never ever having a candidate not being sponsored with a couple millions, then huge propaganda takes place in order to alter reality into believing last president was the faulty one and the system is back on, even if it is clearly off for nearly 50 years now.

(I talk about #ty products because no one need starbucks coffee in a place where natural coffe is so cheap and good, but...branding + 'cool' people = business, i know you guys have some great stuff too, but those we either have to ask them mailed, or just download/contraband them, because all you get here is brad pitt movies, fat made food, and weird fetish items with not use at all.)

Meanwhile, workers react and assembly themselves, but the middle classes kind of have a grudge on them, because somehow, they believe THEY ARE RICH AND LIVE WELL BECAUSE THEY DRINK THEIR COFFE IN STARBUCKS LIKE THE MOVIES! , so they kind of accuse poor people of being to wimpy.

Then economy falls down once again, we discover our resources #ed, our oil exported from us (AND NOT PAID FOR, WHAT THE #????) by foreign companies, our lands used for chinese's soy-fed pigs, (when we could very well have our own pigs or any other better plantation that soy, which is better suited for unrich soils) and the middleclasses hug the poor again.

So well, that's the cycle : middle class feeling rich and cool because they have access to stuff seen in movies, poor classes literally dying of hunger in a country which can produce food for the whole continent, and rich people minding their business.

Time after time, starbucks after motor oil, after free market, after mc donals, after this and after that we are getting #ed by big corporations who weren't allowed to play rough in usa, but yes in "it's playground".

So, it finally arrived there, i guess that shows they really don't have any #ing respect not even in a nationalistic twisted way, i just hope your government is still the bad ass #er it's supposed to be and just do the right thing for once and police this type of behaviours both in your countries and overseas, it really is like having a secret government, i mean, there have been virtually not any changes in the last 50 years aside from new products getting in. It's kind of annoying.



edit on 3-12-2013 by louiedog because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 03:43 AM
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reply to post by ldyserenity
 


I'm a bit of a chump too... ;-j but if I believe in equality, I kind have to be true to myself, and all I do is think how my employees and I would feel in reversed situations. When I am employed by someone other than myself, I often feel resentment at my boss' arogance.

In the end the only way I see to instill the concept of equality is to start with it as core concept of the business, by paying everyone exactly the same.

In time I will develop the idea of peer reviewed reward, where the company itself decides the value of different business associated tasks. In that way there is opportunity to become more valuabe to the business, and in turn have the business reward the individual.

I hope one day my employees value me well enough to pay me well... ;-j

Odd ideas... ;-j



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 06:11 AM
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As an American, I will tell you why America is so screwed up. The mentality of many of the people is that of parasites and the government is 100% corrupt. It is that simple.

First...the people. I won't name groups as this is a country-wide problem, but there are certain groups that have significantly higher percentages of parasitic activity. The majority of people here think they deserve something for nothing and will take anything offered to them whether they need it or not. Many will also lie, cheat and steal to get something for nothing. They will sell the country on the promise of free cell phones. Just look at Obama being elected twice with a campaign based on lies and in many cases...simply being black. Yes...he was partially voted in simply for his skin color. These people have destroyed a good part of America.

Second...the corrupt government. The government wants a few simple things and lies to get them. Power, money and control. Since control brings both power and money...I'll just cover that. People want an apple...you know...the fruit. An apple can be bought through a store for, lets say, 25 cents. But the government decides to take that over for "the safety of the people". The government creates a department and hires employees to oversee the "apple distribution". These people are paid from $30,000 to $200,000 per year to manage this. Advertising the campaign costs $1,000,000. Their building costs $100,000,000 and they get all kinds of things and benefits. The government takes $5.00 from each citizen for the "apple tax". They pay all their workers, pay for the building, buy a 25 cent apple and give it to a citizen. That apple now cost the citizen $5.00. Stupid...right?

Well, the government now has more income to do with as they please. There is no law stating that $5,00 has to be spent on apples. The government now owns a new building and has 50 new workers loyal to the "apple tax". They don't want to lose their jobs. The government now has control of $5.00 from each citizen, control of a building, department and employees and can raise that tax anytime they want. Now the fun part...they have control of the advertising company, the shippers, the producers, etc., etc., etc. These businesses now rely on income from the government from the "apple campaign". So...how do you think these people and these companies will vote if the "evil republicans" think the apple tax is stupid????

Now...that was for apples. Just think about roads, waterways, healthcare, tax collection, law enforcement, etc.

The end result? The people mentioned above get what they deserve. But there are other people, like me, that don't abuse the system, that work hard and deal with as many of their own problems as they can before looking for a hand-out. Yes...I guess that makes me stupid. I could have a lot more by abusing the system. But I could have a lot more by stealing also. That isn't me and I wouldn't do that. And there are lots of people like me...just not the majority. So us stupid people get screwed by our fellow citizens and our government.

So can this be fixed? NOPE! Why? Because the level of parasitic activity and the government control would require these people to basically "cut off an arm" and they would never, ever do that. The only way to change it...is to tear it down. Revolution? Maybe. A huge natural disaster? More likely. For, you see...these parasites don't care about anything but what they can get, and themselves. They are the ticks that will bleed the host dry until the host dies. And then they will stand there, mouths agape looking at the end of their free-ride. And move on to another host.

So...any more room in Australia?



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


I don't understand why all employers do use the e-verify system. I worked for a company for 8 yrs that used it and it was very effective and did not cost. I know of 4 illegals who attempted employment and were caught through the e-verify system.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by MOMof3
 


They don't use it because they don't want to.

Why do you think the 'Pubs are all over amnesty? Big business wants to hire illegals, but they also think that if they hire newly amnestied immigrants, they can depress the wage base. Middle class workers are expensive ... yes, even the ones who are "underpaid" at Walmart are expensive. Illegals don't complain, and they'll work for pennies compared to us ungrateful wretches.

So, the Dems want a new underclass voting base because they've destroyed blacks, and the establishment 'Pubs want to assuage big business and they also want a new voting underclass because, in case people haven't noticed, their own voter base is revolting against them. They hope they can replace the too independent conservative base with a latino base that is more compliant and more accepting of big government control.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 01:36 PM
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MOMof3
reply to post by buster2010
 


I don't understand why all employers do use the e-verify system. I worked for a company for 8 yrs that used it and it was very effective and did not cost. I know of 4 illegals who attempted employment and were caught through the e-verify system.


I'll tell you why 'some' employers don't use the system. Two reasons: 1) they like using people not legally able to work for obvious reason and 2) many are paranoid that the IRS will hack into their computers or flag them or they'll be on a list - those generally are not being honest nor transpartant and assume the government will be likewise. I've worked for many of both types.

It's a good and easy system.
edit on 3-12-2013 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



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