Bitcoin or Gold: Peter Schiff debates Stefan Molyneux

Morning,

I stand on the Gold side of this equation but this is not why I am posting this.
The digital currency known as bitcoin made some substancial gains in the last year but it's volatility signals it may not be the secure alternative people believe it to be.
I won't weigh in on this as I honestly don't know enough about it to trust it.
One detail I have come to realize is that most bitcoin owners who cashed out already didn't pay much if anything in taxes. You can be certain that won't last long.
Will it be a bubble?
I can't say but I do know that bitcoin isn't really backed up by anything and in this respect it comes across to me as just another fiat currency.
It's worth the watch.
You can decide for yourselves.

www.silverdoctors.com...



-Peace-

reply to post by Eryiedes


I bought in a week ago and it has been my topic of discussion since. The bubble will grow steadily for quite awhile. Months, years even in my opinion. Many will argue the government will step in and shut it down but what people need to realize is, China has embraced it. This is a game changer in my opinion because if China continues on their path while America/Canada doesn't, then this will give China a huge advantage while US drops the ball. I don't think that the US can let this happen. Once BTC becomes an asset class, you can be sure the price will skyrocket beyond control. If only 1% of the world's gold economy shifts to BTC, then the market value will be about $21,000 for one coin.

I was reading about this last night (bitcoin that is) I had no clue to what this was. lately am seeing people in the news losing hard drives and software with millions bitcoin on it ?. When I checked this out the last thing I thought it was solve math problems?

Someone had 4million on a hard drive and forgot about it remembered that he binned it .I don't know If I had £4m on a hard drive I wouldn't forget about It. From what I'v been reading Its somthing thats not gonna be around for long. Gold vs Bitcoin vs Paper vs Credit its all the same BS

I haven't watched the discussion, but I think there is a case for bitcoin for a short term fix or gold for those planning for total economic apocalypse. More people will get in to bitcoin in the short term, it solves many problems for a number of different groups. From African economies, China and those who visit Silk Road and the like

One thing I have noticed about bitcoin users is that if you even mention that bitcoin could be a bubble...or that dark times may lie ahead...there's almost a religious push against any such school of thought. Bitcoin investors JUST won't hear it...identical to land buyers just before the real estate bubble popped.
I've seen nothing yet to indicate that this won't play out in the exact same fashion and recent market volatility lends credence that this digital currency is not as secure as its proponents would claim it is.
Now, if bitcoin were a gold-backed currency, and not a new form of digital fiat, I might change my mind but until such time arrives...

"If it's not in your hand...you don't own it."

-Peace-

reply to post by Eryiedes





Gold and silver are the only hedge against inflation. Bitcoins are based in faith just like everything else and when the faith is gone you will lose everything.



This is common sense. I am not a financial guru I am a machinist and I can see it.

Sub is right, to a certain degree. Bitcoin's value is solely dependent of how many are in existence, how many people own them, and how many places recognize it as a legitimate currency. In a sense, it is exactly like the dollar. The difference (among many other things) is mainly that there is no one single entity that can create Bitcoins.

The saddest thing about it is that the majority of people think Bitcoins are some sort of Pyramid-scheme. Like any other prospective investment, the people who took risks first will benefit in the later years, the only bad thing is that, while you can be confident in a company investment, considering that company may succeed based on past performance, Bitcoin is, like I said, based on the people who use them. So yeah, it is faith based, but like in any investment, obviously those who saw potential will be riding their wheelbarrows of cash to the market, just like what happened with Google back in the day.

I invested quite a while back, and I'm happy I held on to mine. Yes it is volatile, but that doesn't mean it should not be considered. And no, it isn't a Pyramid-scheme (but obviously people can trick you out of your money if you are gullible - that isn't the currency's fault), and people calling it a Ponzi scheme need to educate themselves on what a Ponzi-scheme actually is.

OH! And ONE MORE THING! A Bitcoin isn't a "coin". You can subdivide it into however many units you need to do business. I'm tired of seeing people go "Oh so if I have 20 Bitcoins then I have $20,000? Who is gonna take my money? Get real!". It's so.....pathetically idiotic that it baffles me how some people fail to understand how it works. After 3 years...

mr10k
Sub is right, to a certain degree. Bitcoin's value is solely dependent of how many are in existence, how many people own them, and how many places recognize it as a legitimate currency. In a sense, it is exactly like the dollar. The difference (among many other things) is mainly that there is no one single entity that can create Bitcoins.

The saddest thing about it is that the majority of people think Bitcoins are some sort of Pyramid-scheme. Like any other prospective investment, the people who took risks first will benefit in the later years, the only bad thing is that, while you can be confident in a company investment, considering that company may succeed based on past performance, Bitcoin is, like I said, based on the people who use them. So yeah, it is faith based, but like in any investment, obviously those who saw potential will be riding their wheelbarrows of cash to the market, just like what happened with Google back in the day.

I invested quite a while back, and I'm happy I held on to mine. Yes it is volatile, but that doesn't mean it should not be considered. And no, it isn't a Pyramid-scheme (but obviously people can trick you out of your money if you are gullible - that isn't the currency's fault), and people calling it a Ponzi scheme need to educate themselves on what a Ponzi-scheme actually is.

Its not faith based, it has a digital algorithm. It will fluctuate in price based on how many bitcoins are in the system, how many are being mined, how fast they are mined ect...

starfoxxx

mr10k
Sub is right, to a certain degree. Bitcoin's value is solely dependent of how many are in existence, how many people own them, and how many places recognize it as a legitimate currency. In a sense, it is exactly like the dollar. The difference (among many other things) is mainly that there is no one single entity that can create Bitcoins.

The saddest thing about it is that the majority of people think Bitcoins are some sort of Pyramid-scheme. Like any other prospective investment, the people who took risks first will benefit in the later years, the only bad thing is that, while you can be confident in a company investment, considering that company may succeed based on past performance, Bitcoin is, like I said, based on the people who use them. So yeah, it is faith based, but like in any investment, obviously those who saw potential will be riding their wheelbarrows of cash to the market, just like what happened with Google back in the day.

I invested quite a while back, and I'm happy I held on to mine. Yes it is volatile, but that doesn't mean it should not be considered. And no, it isn't a Pyramid-scheme (but obviously people can trick you out of your money if you are gullible - that isn't the currency's fault), and people calling it a Ponzi scheme need to educate themselves on what a Ponzi-scheme actually is.

Its not faith based, it has a digital algorithm. It will fluctuate in price based on how many bitcoins are in the system, how many are being mined, how fast they are mined ect...

I know, I stated that to some degree in my second sentence... But it IS faith based. If 21 mil BTC were in existence, and only 30 people had them, but no one accepted it as a legitimate payment, it would be worthless. The price is agreed upon by everyone that uses them, how many people accept it as a form of payment, etc. It is just like every other fiat currency, except no one person can 'print' bitcoins.

And it IS possible for 30 people to own everything, it's just that, if they did, by the currency's own standards, it would be worthless.

mr10k

starfoxxx

mr10k
Sub is right, to a certain degree. Bitcoin's value is solely dependent of how many are in existence, how many people own them, and how many places recognize it as a legitimate currency. In a sense, it is exactly like the dollar. The difference (among many other things) is mainly that there is no one single entity that can create Bitcoins.

The saddest thing about it is that the majority of people think Bitcoins are some sort of Pyramid-scheme. Like any other prospective investment, the people who took risks first will benefit in the later years, the only bad thing is that, while you can be confident in a company investment, considering that company may succeed based on past performance, Bitcoin is, like I said, based on the people who use them. So yeah, it is faith based, but like in any investment, obviously those who saw potential will be riding their wheelbarrows of cash to the market, just like what happened with Google back in the day.

I invested quite a while back, and I'm happy I held on to mine. Yes it is volatile, but that doesn't mean it should not be considered. And no, it isn't a Pyramid-scheme (but obviously people can trick you out of your money if you are gullible - that isn't the currency's fault), and people calling it a Ponzi scheme need to educate themselves on what a Ponzi-scheme actually is.

Its not faith based, it has a digital algorithm. It will fluctuate in price based on how many bitcoins are in the system, how many are being mined, how fast they are mined ect...

I know, I stated that to some degree in my second sentence... But it IS faith based. If 21 mil BTC were in existence, and only 30 people had them, but no one accepted it as a legitimate payment, it would be worthless. The price is agreed upon by everyone that uses them, how many people accept it as a form of payment, etc. It is just like every other fiat currency, except no one person can 'print' bitcoins.

And it IS possible for 30 people to own everything, it's just that, if they did, by the currency's own standards, it would be worthless.

edit on 29-11-2013 by mr10k because: (no reason given)

No you cant print them but you can MINE THEM. Anyone can mine them. Thus making it backed by its own digital algorithm not faith.

reply to post by starfoxxx


Explain how the currency is backed by its digital algorithm.

reply to post by mr10k


I just watched a Max Keiser report where he talks about just that. I think the analogy went -To mine gold it takes a tremendous amount of effort and time to find a nugget. But modernizing that effort into an algorithm to search of a "magic" number (which is essentially what a bitcoin is) it then becomes analogous to digging for gold. I hope that made sense.