Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

amazing
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

I beg to differ, respectively. An Eye for an Eye is Christian because it's in the Holy book of Christianity. It's part of the word of God. Christian Scholars will tell you it's there as a history lesson from Whence Christianity came, but I say it muddies the waters and Christian history and subtext should be in a different companion book. The word of God, or Christ or Jesus as he's known should be enough. Take out this old testament violence and hatred and you'll have a better religion without this train your children crap.

Actually, eye for an eye was the way of the world before the death of christ. You see, in the old world the pagans demanded a sacrifice of flesh and blood to be redeemed for acts considered unsightly by their gods. The bible explains this as the way things were before god stepped in to redeem man for all time. The sacrifices were usually of animal like an oxe or a goat depending on what was at hand and how grievous the "sin" was. The idea of eye for an eye was a social remedy for the instances where sacrificing a goat or an oxen or what have you simply would not suffice. Murder begat murder, thieving begat the loss of hands in some sub cultures and in more lenient societies which were few and far, the value of that stolen was returned with interest.

The reason that eye for an eye did not work is that people simply demanded more than was equal for the crime. It simply became more than an eye for an eye. Adultry for instance got you death, you didnt kill anyone but you died for being intimate with anyone but your spouse. It's very apparent that if you take the bible's approach to how it all comes about, eye for an eye is not part of the way God wanted things. Eye for an eye is the way the "old gods" wanted things. Christ on the cross was the solution that ended eye for an eye and THAT was God's contribution to mankind's self governing.

Just because the principles of eye for an eye are present in the story, that doesn't mean that the practice was encouraged by those claiming to be servants of the "one true god". Now mind you that despite all the biblical recalling here, I don't have a whole lot of love for that book but I thought I'd point out that important detail

reply to post by Grimpachi


Give me 10 minutes in a room with these authors - i'll show them a short cut to their maker.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Damn them! The authors of the book need to be held responsible also and the publishers.

Take the effing thing of the shelves, take the money off of the authors and publishers(sue them) and give it all to the victims or a child rescue organisation.

reply to post by proteus33


yep well Christ says, anyone hurt a little child...

Matthew 18:6

6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,[a] it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

source







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Personally, I think anyone who reads that book and isn't completely horrified by it's content is someone who is already an abuser and is looking for a justification for abusing their children. Or, they have such an appalling inability to think for themselves they should not have had kids in the first place.

I read a long article on Slate recently about fundie parents who do foreign adoptions and proceed to beat or starve the children to death. I wouldn't recommend it if you're at all sensitive--I couldn't finish reading the whole thing it was so revolting--but it was a good, in-depth article.

www.slate.com...

amazing
And they wonder why there seems to be a war on Christianity. Do they really not know?

Are you suggesting that Christianity seems to be slowly phased out is because the parents beat their children all the time?

This is not a Christian book. This is part of the establishments disinformation of faith in God. From your statement, it seems that you think they are rightfully barring Christianity everywhere because of a system of corporal punishment.

Don't be fooled.

What a pathetic waste of human flesh. The parents, foster or not, should be publicly stoned for such acts. I am a parent of a 4 year old and this story deeply hits me. That someone, based on religion or not, would think this is an acceptable way to treat ANYONE! This is not the fault of the book. As much as I may disagree with it, I do support their right to print it. First amendment is a bitch, but she is ours to use or abuse. That is what makes America great. However, it takes a pretty sick mind to detach enough from reality to do these things and mentally be ok with them, to follow their dogma. I dislike religion is any way, shape or form but understand its need in society. I find it real hard to believe that anyone of the cloth would think this book or its teachings is a good idea. God help them if they do.

Eye for an Eye is from the Magna Carta, 5th grade history.

This is pretty close to how most people were raised, with a little twist. The problem is how uninitiated people go balls to the walls crazy with this after reading the book. Exercise a little self discretion.

This book is the furthest thing from Christian teachings as you can get. Not once did Jesus advocate or condone hurting children. How this is seen as Christian teachings is beyond me.

Sick, twisted and warped. Hell was made for people like these...

These people are freaks. The authors should be charged as well for advocating such endangering techniques.

This is not Christian, we don't advocate beating or starving our children as discipline.

a paddle is one thing but severe beatings NO. Starving NO.

I didn't want to spank my oldest any more for her constant disobedience, so the last Time which was 5 years ago I had her spank me for her offenses. She cried as she gave me the 3 swats she deserved and she has been very well behaved ever since.

Similarly Jesus took our punishment for sin on himself and bore it on the cross.

VoidHawk


Children become bad because of what they learn, they are not born bad! Then when they've been taught to be bad the parents start punishing them, getting more and more severe as the cycle gets worse.
I know children who have NEVER been beaten, and they are very good children who respect those who deserve respect.

Not really sure if this is true. I have two daughters several years apart.. first daughter was quiet and happy for the most part and she had no bratty tendencies. Second daughter, feisty, temperamental and aggressive. I'm not saying she was born "bad" but before she could crawl she was throwing tantrums and fighting against all authority. I've definitely had to alter my parenting style for my second girl quite a bit which includes more punishments and time outs.

reply to post by kronos11


That's not a sign of a child being bad but a sign of a potentially gifted child.

www.sengifted.org...

spartacus699
if you spare the rod you might spoil the child, they need to show respect to there parents. Most parents have no clue what the word "respect" even means anymore. They're the child and the child is the parent bossing them around. If you spare the rod you actually don't love you child very much.

There are many ways of teaching respect other than violence. The first and foremost being of modeling respect for others including the child in question and children as a whole.

Children learn by observation (as well all do) and if all we see around us is violence (whether physical, verbal/mental or spiritual) that is the only way a child learns to cope with lives difficulties.

Beating or swatting (the euphemism used in my day) a child doesn't teach respect - it only teaches fear and anger and that the way to get what you want is through violence and intimidation.

boncho

And if you read accounts of parents who have taken up this method of child rearing, some say they themselves get addicted to the beatings. Transference of anger. (Often considered one of the most childish human emotions).

A parent has a bad day, oh well the kid just did XYZ, better punish them…

I just wanted to repeat and highlight boncho's point.

iRoyalty
It is refreshing to see everyone's outrage and distaste at the parenting techniques in this book. It gives me hope for the next generation that so many of you on here recognise positive approaches to educating the children, who will one day be the law makers and workers of society.

Very sad that people buy this book and think these are legit ways to teach a child, I pray that book sellers see sense and stop selling this book through principle.

I also don't think it should be banned otherwise that opens a door for other books to be banned. You may disagree but then there comes the issue of where the line is, should communist book be banned? Should books on black magic be banned? I think all information should be available to everyone, however you wouldn't find 'Mein Kampf' on a book shelf, just like you should never find this one on a book shelf.

Your post made me think that it's not so much how we educate children as it is how we (as parents and other adults in childrens lives) educate and conduct ourselves. I'll repeat that it isn't what we 'do' to children that educated them, it's how we behave ourselves that the children around us learn from.

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been added

I FEEL RAGE.

The book should be called ''How to break the spirit of your pet''

Where is the common sense, I hope someone beats them, showers them with cold water, make them sleep outside.

If the kid had lived, she would probably have had a lot of problems.

I wonder if because it was not their blood relative they chose this, if the kid looked like mom or dad would they have been the same? in this case probably.

NihilistSanta
This is an interesting case. While the extremes advocated in the book are clearly abusive the real debate here is about corporal punishment. I find it interesting when people talk about millennials being spoiled or having a sense of entitlement but then refuse to acknowledge that that generation is the "no spank" generation. There has to be a middle ground. I was an unruly child probably because my parents did not believe in corporal punishment so I had nothing to fear in regards to authority. My grandfather on the other hand was an extreme proponent of corporal punishment and I never misbehaved in his presence.

The book is really no surprise though as people try to condition humans like animals. Reminds me of baby Albert and John B. Watson or Pavlov and his assistant or Skinner take your pick from the early behaviorist. Christians do not have a monopoly on corporal punishment Just look into any of the above.

No I disagree. It isn't about 'corporal punishment'. Corporal punishment only teaches, at best, compliance with authority and, at worse, might makes right.

Corporal puishment doesn't teach responsibilty, perseverance or consistancy. Only the example, daily example, consistant example of an adult with those traits can teach it. It's doesn't require perfection, just the consistant attempt to improve and do better - but it must be modeled - at home, in the schools, and in society.

whitewave

Discipline and punishment are 2 different things entirely. Discipline is for the betterment of the one being disciplined. Punishment is for the benefit of the twisted turd who feels the need to hurt others.

Another good post that bears repeated reading.

I'll gladly buy this book it the authors allow me to beat them with a hose. I am shocked that a parent would think this is a viable method for raising a child who will grow up to be a loving and caring person.

amazing
And they wonder why there seems to be a war on Christianity. Do they really not know?

What does any of this have to do with being Christian?
We are all individuals and are capable of anything!
Why do we need to persecute a religion because an
individual uses that religion to perpetuate violent acts?
This is not the fist time violence has been used in the
name of religion, justice or democracy and it wont be
the last!
I fail to understand why we need to blame
something other than individuals?
There will always be evil people trying to use something
good to do evil! Those that believe in the teachings of
Jesus Christ follow a benevolent ideology and those
that claim to are the false profits he warned us about!