It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

"Faith" - The Christian's Clever Escape Move

page: 2
1
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 05:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by saint4God
Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust



Originally posted by saint4God
(1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof


Here is a link to another thread.Right Here!. Which for all the believers in "Christian faith" will, I'm sure, strengthen their feeling of knowing just exactly what they are having "faith" in... Not


"When things look too good to be true, they are."... A wise man once told me.

"Faith" in the Christian form is really just a hidden form of Control by Fear. Which is anything but "holy" and Im willing to bet that the "divine creator" doesn't want anyone but his enemies to fear him. (If there is even such a thing, I mean if "faith" is a tool of the Christian religion, then "hell" must be another tool to help the masses "fear god" or have "faith") ... It all smells fishy, and I dont like that smell
.... Its like an abusive relationship. The husband develops a healthy amount of "faith", "Trust" or "fear" (She might think its trust, But hes got plans for fear) in his wife until she is nothing but a slave, a sheep, and hes the master. She gets trapped in the thought that there is nothing out there but him, only him. If she left him, she would be nothing. From then on the husband can do anything, the wife never leaves cause she is afraid of what her "Boss", "master", "Husband" will do in retaliation.... It sounds allot like Christianity and other religions if you ask me.

I know there is a "divine creator" but I will never "fear" him/her, ever. I dont think he/she would want that either

Im not saying that "Faith" is bad, but only that it can be abused.

Trust yourself. Love is the key here, the creator would not want you to love him/her cause you are afraid of what he/she can do, that is false love.... Think about it.


Buy the way; Im not a religious man. But I do believe that there is a creator. I love my family and myself without boarders, therefore I love the creator, Catch my drift?


[edit on 11/18/04 by HumptyDumpty]




posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 05:40 PM
link   
Faith is an absurd and outdated concept. Any situation that supposedly requires faith wous tend to have the same defining properties. Especially mainstream religion.



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 09:06 PM
link   
"Buy the way; Im not a religious man. But I do believe that there is a creator. I love my family and myself without boarders, therefore I love the creator, Catch my drift?"

This is a very good belief in my eyes....as the bible says in Genesis 1-26 Let us make man in our image under our likeness. I think this is representing that really we are the creators of ourselves with a christian doctrine attached to it. lol So as to say the one thing people on this planet need to stop doing is searching for a higher being and search withing them selfs....and have "faith" in ones self, so if everyone had faith in themself i bet this would of stopped any religious wars, killings, predujuce through out all of time. We are looking in the wrong place, stop looking up and start looking with in. Also yes i have a biased few since i am as to say anti-christian or as to say anti-organised relgion, i have the same view as Nietszche....religion is for the people with weak minds and wills. Yet trying to tell a religious person that and geez do i get a mouth full.
On one side note about religion getting shoived down people's throats and how we have "free will" to believe in what we want i think is wrong.
We firstly are pumped full of religion at a young age, then looked down apon in a young society if you disbelieve. Yes you can brake free of the claws of religion but it is rare. Still i get mormons and jeovah witness's comming to my door all the time....yet ive never seen a athiest come to my door trying to get me to convert to his views lol.
I think personaly that any religious text of any kind should be legal to minors, then at the age of 18 they are allowed any text of any religion they wish....then people can make up their "own mind" on what they believe.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 12:49 AM
link   
"That would be a very authentic life. "

Thankyou, it is.




posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 05:46 AM
link   
The reason why I think people cannot "grasp" the concept of faith is because faith cannot be understood by those whom do not understand God.

As it is said widely, and as it is said in the bible; "If you are not with us, you are against us."

As such if you are not with Christ and God, you are an anti-christ. As the bible stated, there will be many and as such there are many.

The bible also states that you do not give what is holy to dogs. Thus why would the lord give his word to an anti-christ whom is clearly against him; why would his holy word be thrown to the dogs.

It wouldn't be; thus the godless can never understand true faith, the reasoning behind the fear of the lord, or true wisdom.

Yet the poster of this topic is clearly in search of something, perhaps it's a reason to believe; thus in such light I will try my best to explain.

Faith is like the blind trust we present to one another when we present love.

Love is but an emotion, it is something that can not be scientifically proven; you must accept love to believe in the cenceptual concept of love. Some people will argue that love can be proven through brain scans or neurological tests; yet what those people fail to understand that it is only the brain's electronic impulses that can be proven; the true concept of feeling and expression cannot.

In an essence the blind trust of love in it's self and in one another is at best the concept of faith.

The problem with today's modern "christians" is that there aren't many of them that truly understand what is to have faith.

They believe that it's about converting people, fasting, Sunday church, and so fourth. Modern christians of today hardly exhibit any true faith or wisdom.

The churches have led many people astray; too many people whom claim to have faith "pick and chose" what they want to believe in.

This in not the way of the discipline of the Lord.

Along with faith in the Lord there is the acknowledgement of the devil.

So I would contend the situation to the story of the man who has sown a field of crops. On that very night his enemy comesand draws seeds of weed upon his field, a malicious intent. Yet the planter of the field does not fret, he choses to allow the seeds to grow side by side with the weed and as such when the harvest arises, the owner of the filed is easily able to recognize and harness his crops.

Such is truth of the Lord's people, they grow side by side with the misled "christians" and upon the day of harvest the Lord will know his crops.

I think that it's sad so many people have been sent down a Godless path by the ill conceived "christians" of today.

Yet the bible speaks of how many will come to heaven's door and ask to be let in; they will claim to have done works in the Lord's name. Yet they will be turned away and told of how they are known because the name they acted in a name that was not the Lords.

In my opinion here is a tidbit on how you can tell if you are talking to a real God fearing person or a "modern christian."
A God fearing person will not have faith and live their life for redemption. A God fearing person will do as they do in an effort only intended to please the Lord as such they expect nothing in return. A "modern christain" claims to be saved and tries to ram their propraganda down your throat. (Why do they do this? They do this because their master is not God; their real intent is not known even to them. Their real intent is to disgust you as they do and help to turn you further from God. A hand of the devil's work in using faith against it's self.)

A God fearing person is far too humble to attempt to save because they know that the Lord is the only one who saves. There aren't merits of our own that will produce entrance into the kingdom of heaven. Only by the Lord's mercy, which was given through Christ, will anyone ever experience what is to come.

The most a God fearing person will do is love, show patience, and try their darnest to help any whom asks for help and/or understanding.

You see fear in the lord is not so much fear; it is being humble; it is in this humble trust that we begin to understand the Lord isn't anything short of perfect love.

Yeah God has his rules; but alot of people fail to realize that they are more for us. They are to help us get through life and they are to help us find him if we chose to search.

If you take a look at the bible you're see what I'm talking about; take any rule; like don't eat an unclean animal.

Okay let's take a look at this, does it impact God if we eat an unclean animal? No, who does it impact - us. We're the ones that get sick, we're the ones that will die, thus his rules are more to help us than anything else.

The bible is God's greatest goodness of wanting to help us.

In all of this; God fearing people chose to love God; we see his help and say thank you. All that we are asked to do is trust in God's love; the same love you trust in your brother, your sister, your father, and your mother.

This is faith.

[edit on 19-11-2004 by hanburu_juuboku]



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 06:38 AM
link   
Now, I don't know what churchs y'all have been to here, but I know the seven or eight (various denominations) I'd attended through my life did not tell me what I believe. They referenced verses and asked me to think about it, pray about it and see how it applied. Guys! The church is not a spoon-feeding brainwashing session. Recognize this is an institution that teaches using your head instead of following the impulses of society.

On the topic: Where proof ends, faith begins. It applies to more than Christianity, it also goes for relationships (trust), science (theory), economics (credit & stocks), travel (the person flying the plane), waking up in the morning (who guarentees you will, do you have proof?), need I go on?

[edit on 19-11-2004 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 06:43 AM
link   
Is to belive that what seems is impossible ,could become possible....

as the moon is too far to reach, but if you as a scientist has faith you can develope a rocket.


But never forget that theres another faith, which is Fate, such as:

" If we don't clean up our act, we're definitly gonna meet our fate!!!"...


[edit on 19-11-2004 by 2ndSEED]



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 06:51 AM
link   
The movie "signs" was about faith. Just because mankind is so uneducated and ignorant of how the universe really works many "arrogant" humans deny "God". Those without "faith" can never understand "faith". Just as the Greeks 3000 years ago would not understand a DVD player. For all the greek brilliance in art, mathmatics, humanities...........the simple DVD player of today would perplex them. The same can be said of those without faith. It is just beyond your comprehention.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:05 AM
link   
Howard, I think you've struck pretty close to it here, but the problem isn't our understanding of the word faith, rather the collective Christian understanding of the word faith.

For many that I know, it seems that to them faith means, "To follow blindly; To not question, and to bitterly defend far beyond any hope of recovery"

It's not peoples' faith that irritates me, it's their inability to percieve any sort of possibility of another point of view. Example:

Why didn't God save the lives of Holocaust victims, man?
He didn't feel like it.

Why didn't God save those people on 9/11, man?
He didn't feel like it.

Why didn't God save Abel from Cain, man?
You know, man, you're so irritating. Can't you just have faith in something?

...to which I respond that I must see a solid case for the existence of something for me to have faith in it. I am not supported by clouds, dreams, or empty thoughts, therefore I should not cling to them.


And one thing you didn't touch on that I'd like to:

I'd say something like 50% of all Christian people would be classified as those with an external locus of control. I feel that this Point of View is unhealthy, but again, that's just my opinion.

Thoughts?

-Loki



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:08 AM
link   
Loki - I wonder what your avatar would have said about your post?
You know the reverend Martin luther King?



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:11 AM
link   
Dr. King was a very smart man.

Recall that I said nothing about ALL christians, just about the ones I know.

I myself was classified as a christian until some few years ago.



I'm also 1000% sure that Dr. King would respect me that much more for seeking the answer for myself, rather than accepting what was offered to me on a plate.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:11 AM
link   
Many christians do see other points of view. Then they pray for you because your lost. MLK had tremendous "faith".



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:14 AM
link   

Oh, blind faith. Okay, that's not what Howard said so that's not what I addressed. God gave each of us a brain, it's our responsibility to use it to determine the right course of action. The Bible is a guide on how to think so that we are not making decisions blindly, rather with clarity and open eyes.


He addressed faith as it pertains to religion, and so yes, he was speaking of blind faith, as it is faith in something which cannot be proven, and indeed, the evidence is even contradictory to it's existance (at least as "God" is portrayed by any religious text)....it is "blind" faith.

I did not however, state that blind faith is necessarily a bad thing...indeed, I belive that the blind faith I have in humanity, despite all evidence to the contrary, is what allows me to see first the good in people, despite the bad.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:15 AM
link   
He was also a man of deep and abiding faith, a Baptist reverend and had a PHD in sytematic theology.
As to your questons about the victims of the holocaust and 9/11 the awnser is he did save many of them. In fact he saved all of those who wanted to be saved.
What happens to those who did not wish to be saved?
I don't know I'm not him.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:17 AM
link   
Please don't get angry.

I'm just expressing my feelings about many of the Christians that I know.

In fact, several of my old friends from my former church won't talk to me anymore, simply because I started reading the Talmud, and some other obscure 'off the beaten path' religious texts that didn't encompass their ideal of 'proper' christianity.

I honestly think, in my heart, that tolerance and love for one's fellow man in far more important than what church you pray at, and which pastor reads to you, or even, god forbid, your strictness to a flawed translation of the alleged word of God. The new life version is so loosely translated that it would probably make JUDAS turn in his grave.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:22 AM
link   
mwm1331,

[Deism]

I fail to see the corellation between 'Saved', and 'Gruesomely murdered and/or gassed by supposed Christians in the name of purity',

Also between 'Saved' and 'Encompassed in a fiery ball of death 20+ stories above Manhattan'

And also between 'Saved' and 'Brutally murdered by the only brother you have, whom you love very much.' (Side note, Abel was also the most favored son, and was on a first name basis with God...wherever he resides.)

[/Deism]



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:24 AM
link   

In fact he saved all of those who wanted to be saved.
What happens to those who did not wish to be saved?
I don't know I'm not him.


Please tell me you don't honestly believe that... Do you think that the infants and toddlers who were gassed and then cremated didn't wish to be saved?

The best Christian defense I ever saw was actually in a movie... "Oh God"

The little girl asked God "Why do you let bad things happen?"
God answered, "Well, I never learned how to make anything with just one side...you can't make happy without sad, light without dark..."(etc.)

Probably the best portrayal and explainations of God I've ever seen in that flick, hehe....



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:28 AM
link   
Simple Gazrok, Loki,
He saved them by saving what was truly important.
Thier souls.
Millions were killed in the holocaust, and thousands ded in the 9/11 attacks, but that doesn't mean they werent saved.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by mwm1331
Simple Gazrok, Loki,
He saved them by saving what was truly important.
Thier souls.
Millions were killed in the holocaust, and thousands ded in the 9/11 attacks, but that doesn't mean they werent saved.



I'd like to know two things.

1. How do you know this for sure?
2. How can I learn to know it?
3. Are you aware of the difference between 'faith based on fact' and 'faith based on hope?'



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 07:32 AM
link   
For a more practical, less spirtual awnser.
Becse we all have free will, even those of us who are evil.
I have free will so I could choose to go on a 7 state killing spree. If I did so its because I chose to do so If my victims die its because I killed them. Free will means you can choose to do evil.



new topics

top topics



 
1
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join