all! lets watch the realtime Ison journey meet the sun..provide by NASA!

any1. How long (in terms of earth time) was this comet in the region
where temps were 2760 deg C and what was the original size of this comet?
what is its estimated collective size now?

Phage
No so much. Any objects of significant size (like a bus or a Prius) would remain close to the main body because they would be in the same orbit. It is only particles tiny enough to be affected by the solar wind which trail the nucleus.

At the beginning of November the comet was well above the ecliptic (Earth's path) and its tail was hardly developed at all. It is actually unlikely that we will encounter the remnants at all.

Well Phage, That is a really nice theory that you have presented to us all here on ATS concerning the unknown, yes my friend, the Unknown. Though squeaky clean as usual, you guys and your past observations, as well as current assumptions, do not apply until we have some serious scientific evidence to back it all up.

With that being said, Your point is more likely to be valid, but my open minded position still stands, and that is all I am trying to say buddy. Let's see what happens concerning anything that could be coming our way as a result of this all. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by SheopleNation

Though squeaky clean as usual, you guys and your past observations, as well as current assumptions, do not apply until we have some serious scientific evidence to back it all up.

You mean evidence like past observations?
You mean evidence that gravity works as it does?

Your point is more likely to be valid, but my open minded position still stands, and that is all I am trying to say buddy

So, what's the point of an "open mind" if it allows for anything at all to happen? What good is it? Isn't it a bit like being afraid of your own shadow? Watch out! Everything is completely random!

It's not like randomness isn't out there, it is indeed. But that doesn't mean everything can happen.

As a side note, do you find it an interesting dichotomy that some people insist that there is no such thing as coincidence while at the same time saying "anything can happen?"

I have a question. If the mass of ison vaporized after going by sun, then the vapor that use to be ison is it still traveling at very fast speed. may we encounter an ionic blast of ison.

reply to post by cloaked4u

Maybe.
Along with the rest of the stuff in the solar wind...which far outmasses anything from the comet.

Phage
You mean evidence like past observations?

That is exactly what I said, only those are nothing but theories and assumptions in regards to anything new, and even more so with a comet like ISON. Anything prior to the latest, then yeah past observations are very important, so you and I agree on that. Not the first time we have either.

You mean evidence that gravity works as it does?

I have never ever even once contested the Science behind gravity. So nice try, and calm down Phage.

So, what's the point of an "open mind" if it allows for anything at all to happen? What good is it? Isn't it a bit like being afraid of your own shadow? Watch out! Everything is completely random!

Well, I know your kind likes to label anyone who thinks outside of your box as paranoid or as some kind of doom and gloom robot, but individual beliefs vary on so many different levels and subjects that you can't lump everyone who disagrees with you into your own mold bro.

It's not like randomness isn't out there, it is indeed. But that doesn't mean everything can happen.

Who said everything can happen, who? And where did who / they claim that? Come on now, Let's not start pulling imaginary rabbits out of some imaginary hats that never even existed to begin with?

Anyway yeah, I did say that anything is possible, and without a doubt the unknown is unpredictable. Even Carl Sagan again, was intelligent enough to understand that Phage. Why can't you comprehend such a reasonable and open minded position, and why are you so threatened about the unknown my friend, you're such a smart guy?

As a side note, do you find it an interesting dichotomy that some people insist that there is no such thing as coincidence while at the same time saying "anything can happen?"

Well to put aside your attempt of trying to spin this discussion off into another direction, I will say that divisionism is as old as human kinds existence. Still respect you even if you and I sometimes disagree bro. Best wishes either way. ~$heopleNation

Phage
It's not like randomness isn't out there, it is indeed. But that doesn't mean everything can happen.

and it also means no one knows everything about everything. watch at least the first two minutes of this and let me know if you have any thoughts on the electrical behavior of the sun affecting comets in ways no one from NASA could've predicted. just a guess but I predict you will argue there's no proof. come on prove me wrong

reply to post by bottleslingguy

and it also means no one knows everything about everything.

Which is why astrophysicists were so interested in ISON. A fresh comet which would pass very close to the Sun offers a lot of information about the formation of the Solar System.

watch at least the first two minutes of this and let me know if you have any thoughts on the electrical behavior of the sun affecting comets in ways no one from NASA could've predicted.

I watched five minutes and came across nothing of particular interest.

There was quite a bit of discussion about whether ISON would survive the tidal stresses. Turns out it didn't. Turns out that the material it was composed of was not quite as robust as thought. New information. Good science.

Did the EC "theory" predict anything that ISON did?

reply to post by Phage


I was just wondering how you've adjusted to the fact that comets aren't icy snowballs covered in dust which gets blown away by the solar wind. What was it this dust is made of? You were saying the tail is just dust and ice particles reflecting sunlight weren't you? what do you think about that giant spark right before the deep impact probe hit the surface of Tempel 1? Any thoughts on why it has all the other NASA scientists baffled? Funny how the NASA site hasn't corrected the Deep Impact page since then "First, dust driven from a comet's nucleus reflects sunlight as it travels through space. " www.nasa.gov...

what are your thoughts on the arcing process across the surface and the comets being electrically charged?

reply to post by bottleslingguy

Did the EC "theory" predict anything that ISON did?

We knew there was a possibility that it would be broken up by the Sun's gravity. Guess what happened?

I was just wondering how you've adjusted to the fact that comets aren't icy snowballs covered in dust which gets blown away by the solar wind.

As far as I know they are pretty much just that. What do you think they are?

what do you think about that giant spark right before the deep impact probe hit the surface of Tempel 1?

What giant spark?

what are your thoughts on the arcing process across the surface and the comets being electrically charged?

I don't think they are.

reply to post by Phage

I'm not here to teach, it's up to you to learn.

bottleslingguy
reply to post by Phage

 

I'm not here to teach, it's up to you to learn.

Thought that was a legit question which I'd like to know too. What giant spark?

reply to post by Aleister


solarsystem.nasa.gov...

"Studies of imagery showed that that the luminous flash created within a fraction of a second after Deep Impact's impactor was atomized by comet Tempel 1 was much fainter than expected. Comparison with experimental impacts at the Vertical Gun Range at NASA Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., showed that such a faint flash was consistent only with a surface layer (depth a few times the diameter of the impactor) that was more than 75 percent empty space."

this is about as far as NASA will go before calling it an electrical discharge. The electric comet idea is much more plausible than the dirty snowball. fits what we see and makes more sense. if these dirty snowball comets aren't very big how in the heck do they eject so much stuff? and how in the heck did Ison's double tail form at right angles to the Sun after perihelion?

reply to post by bottleslingguy

Never mind the fact that you said this:

what do you think about that giant spark right before the deep impact probe hit the surface of Tempel 1?

So it wasn't a giant spark and it wasn't before impact. Right?

if these dirty snowball comets aren't very big how in the heck do they eject so much stuff?

"Big" is a relative term. The nucleus of ISON was estimated to be about 3 miles across. That would be about 113 cubic miles of material. That's actually quite a lot of stuff. Also, the coma and tail of a comet are very diffuse. There is not that much stuff in them.

and how in the heck did Ison's double tail form at right angles to the Sun after perihelion?

Not sure what you mean by that. A right angle relative to what? A right angle needs to have two lines. In any case, are you taking the point of view into consideration?


How did the EC "theory" predict the behavior of ISON?

reply to post by Phage


you have to remember that even though Ison's mass and substance was that of a small mountain, that the suns gravitational pull and heat is quite extreme, once Ison broke up the smaller fragments would not have been able to keep their momentum like they would if they were all in one central mass.

This is what we saw from the tail as it exits perihelion, much like the difference between throwing a stone in a pond with one smooth swing vs doing the same with a hand full of gravel, a short of shot gun effect - and the very small particles without significant velocity would fall back toward and indeed into the sun, creating more drag to the tails rapid and broad dispersion.

Biigs
reply to post by Phage

 

you have to remember that even though Ison's mass and substance was that of a small mountain, that the suns gravitational pull and heat is quite extreme, once Ison broke up the smaller fragments would not have been able to keep their momentum like they would if they were all in one central mass.

This is what we saw from the tail as it exits perihelion, much like the difference between throwing a stone in a pond with one smooth swing vs doing the same with a hand full of gravel, a short of shot gun effect - and the very small particles without significant velocity would fall back toward and indeed into the sun, creating more drag to the tails rapid and broad dispersion.

It doesn't work like that in the vacuum of space. No matter how big or small, the fragments continue on the same trajectory with the same velocity, with the only difference provided by the forces that dislodged them (outgassing, tidal forces from the Sun). If you fling a fistfull of gravel and sand in space, all particles will travel at the same speed, and will be affected in the same way by gravity. This has been shown with Apollo experiments on the moon dropping a hammer and a feather, and with the way lunar soil falls back to the ground after being kicked up by the Apollo buggy: