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Absolute Worldviews - The Three Theories of Everything

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posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 10:39 PM
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This is my first thread here and so far I have enjoyed my interaction with the people here though I don’t agree with everything that is being posted. One quick info about me: I was not brought up in a religious family and all my life I was either an atheist or an agnostic. Didn’t believe in Christianity and when I was on a journey to find out whether Christianity is the right path or not it was the most mind bending search ever and at the same time it was very supernatural. I sensed God’s presence and his quick answers to my prayers earlier on in my search though I didn’t understand much at the time. If God didn’t lead me I don’t think I would make it out of this matrix of deceptions alive. And I don’t think anyone can… no one can make it out of the matrix of deceptions and that’s how great the deception is. I just want to say that to give God Almighty and his Son all the glory for pulling me out of the deceptions. His word is truly a lamp unto our feet (Psa 119:105).

Through out my life the arch-deceiver built many fortresses in my mind through the things I read and watched. By God’s grace he pulled them down one by one through the word (John 17:17). Here’s an excerpt that speaks to me and what I been through:



There are many places in the New Testament where we are told to test all things and this is critical because Satan and his demons exist and because they operate a kingdom of lies that dominates the world. Satan has been allowed to run loose in this world and he and his agents are disguised as angels of light. We should not be surprised that Satan operates 99% of the time in false religion, in lies and deception. He is not the one behind the corruption in sinful society—the flesh takes care of that. He is behind the false systems of belief that pervade this world.

MacArthur said that many Christians get spiritual warfare all wrong and turned briefly to 2 Corinthians 10:3ff where we see that the weapons of our warfare are not human and that we cannot rely on anything concocted by man. Our weapons must be divinely powerful. Why? Because we must be engaged in the destruction of fortresses. The picture here is that human weapons are no match for a huge and impregnable fortress. We are assaulting formidable edifices and cannot use pea-shooters. These fortresses are speculations, ideas, psychologies, and religions. Spiritual warfare is not about running off demons, but battling for the mind.

Why? Because the world is imprisoned in belief systems and worldly people are fortified in them. These belief systems become their prisons and end up being their tombs. The architect of it all is Satan, the arch-deceiver. These fortresses are further defined as “every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God.” This refers to every great insight or noble idea, everything raised up as an ideology against the knowledge of God.

What is our responsibility as Christians? It is to smash these ideologies, to crush these fortifications, and to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. Once again, we need to remember that we are engaged in a battle for how people think. — www.challies.com...


With that in mind I would now like to turn your attention to Ellis Potter, an ex-Zen Buddhist monk who is now a Christian. Just a quick note: I searched for “Ellis Potter” on this forum a while ago and the result returned empty so that mean I’m the first one to talk about him on here and introduce his materials to you.

The reason why I want to bring him to your attention is because he talks a lot about absolute worldviews and he found that there are really only three: Monism, Dualism and Trinitarianism. And if you break them down further you are left with only two: Monism and Trinitarianism. The worldview we hold to is very important for it affects how we see everything in reality and it’s unfortunate that a lot of people do not question their worldview. A lot of New Agers (their worldview is Monism) repeat the mantra, “God is love” which really belongs to Trinitarianism and the odd thing is that they attack the Bible whose worldview is Trinitarianism.



Monism argues that the original perfection is a perfect, changeless, eternal unity. We suffer because we have forgotten this original unity and live in an illusion of diversity. This illusion may seem very real to us, but it’s an illusion nevertheless. According to Monism, the solution to suffering is to remember and realize the perfect unity again. Monism is a central idea behind the New Age movement.


We are moving from the age of opposition to the age of flowing together, and when everything flows together there is an increase in peace and tolerance, and the realization that all is One. — Taken from: “3 Theories of Everything”


Now, how do you expect someone who lives in a world of Monism to properly read and interpret the Bible whose worldview is Trinitarianism? Ellis continues…



All is One! is the bumper sticker of the New Age movement. It’s the great sound bite, the great evangelistic cry. All is One. If all is One, then you are God. You are the sun and the moon and the Milky Way and the whole universe. If all is One, then when you drink from a cup of water, you are God putting God into God. ‘All is One’ is so attractive because if everything is one, no one is going to disagree with anyone, no one will fight, no one will misunderstand, and no one will be lonely. All problems are solved if everything is one. You might sort of like this idea. If all is one, however, then you are me, and that might not be so attractive. If everything is one, relationships are evil because you only have relationships when you have the illusion of diversity. If everything is one, hatred is evil because hatred is a relationship, and love is also evil because love is a relationship.


Here’s one of his articles “Evaluating Eastern Religions”: www.bethinking.org...

And his recent video that walks through the three absolute worldviews (an hour and 24 minutes long):


My goal is not to get into any kind of debate but to help those like myself who are searching.




posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 11:10 PM
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From my point of view:

She really does not understand the concept non dualism (and calls it monism) where everything is one whole with several facets. The reality can be a father, son and the holy spirit and still be one whole as non duality says.

If it is true that she was a Zen Buddhist monk before then she should really get the people going to her Buddhist school/temple to avoid it, because they seem to be very bad at teaching the basics of non duality.

And a relationship is longing for the connection to be one and is not a negative thing if it is not causes hurt to the parts experiencing the relationship.

Dualism is you are special vs everybody else is not you and therefor not important to various degrees. This is the doctrine of the dark ones and is used to divide and conqueror by making the self greedy and hungry of things that others can provide for you where you are so hungry you do not care about the damage your hunger causes to others. The same duality apple that Adam and Eve ate for the tree of illusion of thinking they know right from wrong without having all the facts/information.

If Satan is controlling 99% of all religions what make you think you got the right one view that god approves of and it is no Buddhism or Hinduism. The thinking that you got it right just because it is you and you cannot get it wrong is the same self biased duality thinking again.

What did Jesus say about judging.



7 “Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged. 2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but don’t consider the beam that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you tell your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye;’ and behold, the beam is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.


PS from my point of view this is also a hidden reference to the third spiritual eye. If it is then it proves Jesus is even more clever than most Christians know, since most do not get the hidden messages hidden in the bible in plain sight.

edit on 26-11-2013 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 07:45 AM
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If the answers are easy, you're not looking hard enough.

Also, I wish you had included something about taoism. A marvelous philosophy.
edit on 27-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by VoiceInTheWilderness
 



A lot of New Agers (their worldview is Monism) repeat the mantra, “God is love” which really belongs to Trinitarianism

Um, no.

Nope! No, it doesn't.
Perhaps you didn't explore far enough? Anyway, happy that you feel like you 'found' something on your journey. Keep going!



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by LittleByLittle
 



Dualism is you are special vs everybody else is not you and therefor not important to various degrees. This is the doctrine of the dark ones and is used to divide and conqueror by making the self greedy and hungry of things that others can provide for you where you are so hungry you do not care about the damage your hunger causes to others.


Sounds like a popular deity I've heard about...



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by VoiceInTheWilderness
 


What I'm trying to focus on at this moment is reality and when all is said and done it all boiled down to one absolute worldview that makes the most sense and that is: Trinitarianism and then we have to deal with its counterfeits. So the battle is really: Holy Trinity vs Unholy Trinity [counterfeits]. If you don't start here with a proper worldview you won't have a proper understanding of what took place at the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. Movies and books have been released into the Matrix to cause major confusion regarding what took place then (Da Vinci Code, Zeitgeist for examples and people still fall for it). Some of you reading this probably think that they got together to invent the doctrine of the Trinity and then slipped right into the Bible or that the Bible was put together in 325. Not true. Also without the proper worldview you'll misinterpret the Bible this is why we have the Alien Gospel saying that Jesus is an alien and many other strange ideas. Everyone seems to have his/her own view/interpretation of the Bible and this is the result of not having the proper worldview and understanding of how things are connected together.

Since we're dealing with Reality there are only three absolute worldviews:

1) Monism
2) Dualism
3) Trinitarianism

And if you haven't looked at the materials I posted above I suggest you do so. Now, when it comes to Salvation (religion) there are only two:

1) You save yourself (look within, do good deeds ect...)
2) Someone else will (look without, put your faith/trust in another)

Pick any religion you want and it will fit in either #1 or #2. The majority of world religions fit into the first category: You save yourself. Christianity stands out: Someone else will save you. One great video to illustrate this point is this short clip called "A Man Fell Into A Hole". So why are there so many religions out there? To confuse you and keep you trapped.

Religion (Salvation) and worldview must not contradict. If the right worldview is Trinitarianism then Salvation is also Trinitarian. Here's the doctrine of Adoption for example:

Planned by the FATHER (Eph 1:4-5)
Accomplished by the SON (Galatians 4:4-5)
Applied to us by the SPIRIT (Romans 8:15-16)
Will be revealed and consummated in the coming great day (Romans 8:19)

And here's God coming to us:

God above us (Father)
God with us (Son)
God in us (Spirit)

GOD WITH US: This means that God invaded history (space and time). So the Christian faith is rooted in history and it's not a fairytale made up by Constantine or whoever. The Bible says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." So something happened in history. There's a prophecy for that in Isaiah 9:6, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Now we have the Spirit in us (believers) and the Spirit will not deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh:

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1 John 4:1-3)

I hope you see how things are connecting together. Later I'll show you what took place in 325 A.D. We have the Creeds today and they can be reverse engineered. It's all about one Person: Jesus Christ.

Someone brought up Taoism so here's something for you. In chapter 42 of "Tao Te Ching" you find this:



The Tao begot one.
One begot two.
Two begot three.
And three begot the ten thousand things.
The ten thousand things carry yin and embrace yang.
They achieve harmony by combining these forces.


The one writing that understood (through observation) that there seemed to be a Triune force that created all things. This is to be expected if the Creator of this universe is Triune in his being. In the Bible we find that the Father, Son and Spirit created all things so we're back to Trinitarianism.

EDIT: Check this short video and see what you're really up against. www.youtube.com...
edit on 27-11-2013 by VoiceInTheWilderness because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by VoiceInTheWilderness
 



And three begot the ten thousand things.


The three treasures: compassion, moderation, humility. Virtues we should all live by. I would note here that humility is not the same thing as servitude, the difference being dominance versus equality. Humility fosters equality while servitude promotes dominance.

The rest should be plain enough already.

Furthermore, I want to address the subtle point you were making regarding the "Triune forces".


In this spirit, the universe is seen as being in a constant process of re-creating itself, as everything that exists is a mere aspect of qi, which, "condensed, becomes life; diluted, it is indefinite potential". Qi is in a perpetual transformation between its condensed and diluted state. These two different states of qi, on the other hand, are embodiments of the abstract entities of yin and yang, two complementary extremes that constantly play against and with each other and cannot exist without the other.


My beliefs, in many ways, mirror the above excerpt from the Wikipedia article on taoism. I couldn't tell you exactly what "qi" is, only that I feel there is a quantum principle, if not a physical substance, which demonstrates the character of "qi". More to the point, it suggests that we are just as much "creators" of what we see as anything else in this world, whether it be the creation of our own "worldview" or the creation of the world itself, the former of which often leads into the latter.

All of the principles of taoism tie into, and reflect, other similarly mystical conceptualizations we have invented in order to express our perceptions of the subtle machinations of the universe. Which is why I have invested such interest in it.

Thank you for bringing us this thread, Voice. I can see it becoming a very interesting journey.
edit on 27-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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I've made exactly the same distinction on my own posts, beginning from the time when someone asked Christians to offer their definition of God.

The three-fold division comes out most clearly when you're considering the relation between God and the universe;

Monism- God and the universe are the same thing.
This is the theory which has the most popular appeal at the present time.
Creation doctrine is not Monism, because it understands God and the universe as distinct.

Dualism- the universe, or the material of the universe, is distinct from God and independent.
Or there are two equal forces, as in Zoroastrianism and "Yin and Yang". Dualism has had a vogue in certain areas, but is probably a minority view in the history of philosophy.
Creation doctrine is not Dualism, because it understands the universe as dependent upon God.

Creation doctrine. The universe is distinct from God, but not independent.
The universe is neither formed as an extension of God (the Monistic view) nor pre-existent material that God is merely moulding (the Dualistic view).
(This leads to the teaching of "ex nihilo" creation as the only logical alternative.)

Because Creation doctrine is half-way between Monism and Dualism, I keep pushing the idea that it ought to be called One-and-a-half-ism, but the name hasn't caught on yet.



edit on 27-11-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


If anyone here is into Taoism feel free to jump in and help us out otherwise I'll go with what I know. If you think I'm off with my understanding of Taoism feel free to correct me.

The force behind Taoism seems to be impersonal and unknowable whereas the true God is very personal and relational.

"The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth."

Yin, Yang, Qi can't be compared with but seen as: Father, Son and Spirit to understand what we're discussing. In every Yin there's a Yang and in every Yang there's a Yin. Qi is a force that seems to hold these two together? In the Bible the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father: "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." (John 14:10)

The Holy Spirit is...



...the Lifegiver. Now, what does it mean to give life? What is the difference between a dead cat and a live one? A dead body may have all the parts that alive one has, but in a live body the parts are interacting, each part carrying out its distinctive function for the good of the whole body. The life of an organism, the spirit of an organism, is the "glue" that unites the parts into an integrated whole. So, in the Church, it is the Spirit that gives to each member a function to be carried out for the enhanced life of the whole Body of Christ, and gives the gifts necessary for carrying out that function. Not all members receive the same gifts; but, as the Apostle Paul points out to the Corinthians, the one gift available to every member is also the one gift most to be desired, and that is the gift of love, by which the whole body is joined together, all the members being united in love with Christ and with one another.

Thus, if anyone asks what is the special activity of the Holy Spirit, we must answer that it is to unite in love. And if it is of the nature of the Spirit to unite things, then we may be sure that He has been carrying out this activity for all eternity. Before there was a Church, before there was physical life of any kind, the Spirit was the bond of love and unity between the Father and the Son. From all eternity, independently of any created being, God is the Lover, the Loved, and the Love itself. And the bond of unity and love that exists between the Father and the Son proceeds from the Father and the Son. ~ James E. Kiefer


Yin and Yang are impersonal forces that oppose one another whereas the Father and the Son are personal and in perfect unity with one another and we are invited into that divine fellowship: "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full." (1 John 1:3-4)

There's a book titled, "THE TRINITY" by Jones and Flaxman that came out not that long ago. The book is non-Christian but in it it points out that there seems to be a force of 3 behind creation and it list many examples. People are becoming more aware of this as being the reality that we're living in. Here's my own list that I have compiled by picking them here and there:

UNIVERSE (Physical Reality) = Space, Time, Matter

SPACE = Height, Width, Depth
TIME = Past, Present, Future
MATTER = Solid, Liquid, Gas

ATOM = Nucleus (Proton, Neutron, Electron)
PROTON = Contains THREE QUARKS - A Proton contains TWO up quarks (u) and ONE down quark (d))
NEUTRON = Contains THREE QUARKS - A Neutron contains ONE up quark (u) and TWO down quarks (d)

HUMAN BEING = Body, Soul, Spirit
3 TYPES OF BODY: Ectomorph, Mesomorph, Endomorph
FAMILY: Father, Mother, Child

3 TYPES OF LIGHT FROM THE SUN = Light Rays, Heat Rays, Actinic Rays
3 PARTS TO WATER: 2 Hydrogens, 1 Oxygen
3 PRIMARY COLOR: Red, Yellow, Blue (for Digital: Red, Green, Blue)

ONE SCIENTIFIC LAW UNITING ALL ASPECTS OF THE TRI-UNIVERSE:
E=mc^2
Energy = mass * light speed ^ 2

mass = Matter
light speed = Space/Time

Genesis 1:1 - In the BEGINNING (TIME), God created the HEAVEN (SPACE) and the EARTH (MATTER).

When you have OBSERVATION without REVELATION you go off-course. The Bible is the book of revelation and with it we have a proper view/understanding of the universe for it was created by the same God that inspired Holy Scriptures.
edit on 27-11-2013 by VoiceInTheWilderness because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by VoiceInTheWilderness
 


You hear so many voices saying,

"We all worship the same God."
"Allah and the God of the Bible are the same."
"Christianity invented the Trinity" or "Christianity copied their stuff from the Pagans."
"The Bible was put together to control the masses."
"The God of the New Testament isn't the same as the God of the Old Testament."
"You Christians are so arrogant and narrow-minded for believing that you're the only one that have the truth!"

And on we go.

With the posts above I have shown you the bird's eye view of reality and world religions in a nutshell (You save yourself vs you put your trust in The One). Now I would like to turn your attention to the Old Testament and the concept of Two Powers in the heaven. Here's a great lecture that I highly recommend that you watch and once you're done with it all the voices above should disappear along with Zeitgeist and the Da Vinci Code.

Two Powers of the Godhead in Jewish Thought:
EDIT: I just realize that the embed has error even for the first link in the first post. Here's the link for this post: www.youtube.com...

And the link for the first post:
Ellis Potter - 3 Theories of Everything
www.youtube.com...

BONUS:
www.khouse.org...
creation.com...
edit on 29-11-2013 by VoiceInTheWilderness because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by VoiceInTheWilderness
 


Hello my friend... I told you i'd be watching for your threads


I'll start with this


Now, how do you expect someone who lives in a world of Monism to properly read and interpret the Bible whose worldview is Trinitarianism?


None of the apostles were Trinitarians... Nor is the bible...

The Jews didn't believe in the trinity... and they still don't... SO how is the bible Trinitarian?

Well the answer is simple... the bible is a compilation of books put together by the Trinitarian church... who only became Trinitarian less then 100 years before hand


My goal is not to get into any kind of debate but to help those like myself who are searching.


In this we are similar actually...

let the conversations begin



edit on 29-11-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2013 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


"The Jews didn't believe in the trinity... and they still don't... SO how is the bible Trinitarian?"

Which Jews are you talking about? Messianic Jews that do believe in the Trinity (Like Michael Brown)? Atheist Jews that don't believe in God or even their own book? Or Jews who believe only the Torah? Either way the video above will make things clearer for you.
edit on 29-11-2013 by VoiceInTheWilderness because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2013 @ 12:06 AM
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VoiceInTheWilderness
reply to post by Akragon
 


"The Jews didn't believe in the trinity... and they still don't... SO how is the bible Trinitarian?"

Which Jews are you talking about? Messianic Jews? Atheist Jews? Jews who believe only the Torah? Either way the video above will make things clearer for you.


The video is a bad link...

When the books of the OT were written there were no athiests, they only popped up in the last few hundred years... or Messianic jews for that matter

And I probably wouldn't be interested in a video about Christianity anyways... IF that's what its about

I prefer to talk to Christians... Not watch videos explaining the religion


edit on 29-11-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2013 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Michael Heiser - Two Powers of the Godhead
www.youtube.com...

Michael isn't talking about Christianity but the Old Testament and Jewish thought. Anyway if you're not willing to watch I can't help you here. This thread is meant for those who are searching and want to make sense of things.



posted on Nov, 29 2013 @ 12:11 AM
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VoiceInTheWilderness
reply to post by Akragon
 


Michael Heiser - Two Powers of the Godhead
www.youtube.com...

Michael isn't talking about Christianity but the Old Testament and Jewish thought. Anyway if you're not willing to watch I can't help you here. This thread is meant for those who are searching and want to make sense of things.


LOL I don't need help brother... Trust me

And honestly if people want to make sense of things within the bible they should read it for themselves... Not listen to a preacher like most do... There no possible way to come to the "trinity" conclusion unless one is taught such things...

but if you're not interested in chatting i'll leave you to your work

and like I said... your video was posted wrong... and its an hour and a half!

You can't really expect me to watch something that long...can you?


edit on 29-11-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2013 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by VoiceInTheWilderness
 


I feel taoism wasn't developed to cater to man's insecurities. Therein lies one key difference.



posted on Dec, 1 2013 @ 11:24 AM
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What it comes down to is: Do we want to see things objectively or do we want to believe in the lies? Like I said above, I was not brought up in a religious family nor was I brought up in a church. Most of my life I was fed non-Christian data into my mind... I even watched Zeitgeist and believed in it for a while. My desire to know the truth led me to the one that claims to be the truth: Jesus Christ. You can't even begin to properly understand the Old Testament or the New until you know who Jesus is. You can't even properly see and interpret history until you come to know the one (Jesus) who is behind it all.

The information that I try to present here in this thread is in a logical order/flow so I suggest that you (anyone that is reading) go through it one by one (if you haven't). At the same time I don't expect everyone to go through it because I understand a little bit about human nature and their fear of the truth. Adam and Eve ran and hide from the Truth, likewise their children today still run away from the Truth to find their own truth. I'm also aware that there are people who just want to argue which is why I stated above that this thread is not for a debate but for those that are genuinely seeking. There are people reading stuff on this forum who are not members and the genuine seekers are the one I'm targeting with this thread. If people want to live a lie and continue to believe in lies then that is their choice. But if you follow this thread and analyze the information that I presented here then you'll start to see the Matrix of deceptions.

The New Testament authors didn't come up with the doctrine of the Trinity. Prior to the coming of Jesus it was normal to believe in the two powers in heaven now they don't because it would mean that they have to jump ship.

"The idea of the 2nd power was not considered heretical until the 2nd century CE." -- Segal, Two Powers in Heaven, pp. x-xi (Introduction)

Free presentation - The Two Powers of the Godhead in Jewish Thought: www.youtube.com...

Why do we have a lot of people on this forum spreading false information about this one main issue? They're only repeating what they have been fed.
edit on 1-12-2013 by VoiceInTheWilderness because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by VoiceInTheWilderness
 


Catholics aren't considered true Christians by many because they've added Mary as the third wheel of the Trinity. By which I mean, they worship and venerate her just as much as the other two. The triune forces are a very old concept predating the Abrahamic faiths by literally dozens of thousands of years. You know why Christianity has lasted so long? Because it has become the mask of paganism. Old pagan beliefs that are thousands and thousands of years old now wear Christianity like a coat, because the assimilation was necessary for a successful transition.

I'm explaining this in order to demonstrate how monotheism isn't nearly as old as pantheism. And pantheism gave birth to the Trinity.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 11:41 PM
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"The triune forces are a very old concept."

This proves my point in this thread: When all is said and done it all comes down to Trinitarianism being the correct worldview (which rules out Monism and Dualism) that we're living in. With Trinitarianism we are left with the REAL and the COUNTERFEITS. Trinitarian theologies are very deep and profound and there are a lot of good materials out there on this. I'll give you some taste of it later (God willing).

Keep in mind that the Bible does not teach Pantheism or Tritheism. It teaches Monotheism and that this God is relational in his being.

"You know why Christianity has lasted so long?"

Yes, and it has nothing to do with it being the mask of paganism.

"And Jesus answered him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:17-18)

"But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!” So they took his advice, and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go." (Acts 5:34-40)




Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "The name of Jesus is not so much written as it is plowed into the soil of the history of the world." Socrates taught for 40 years. Plato taught for 50 years. Aristotle taught for 40 years. And Jesus for less than three years, yet the influence of the three years of Jesus' ministry far outstrips the combined 130 years of the three greatest philosophers of all antiquity. Jesus never painted a picture, yet some of the finest paintings of Raphael, Michelangelo, Divinci and many other artists found in Him their inspiration. Jesus wrote no poetry, but Dante, Milton, and scores of the world's greatest poets have been inspired by Him as by no other. Jesus wrote no music and yet Heiden and Handel and Beethoven and Bach and Mendelssohn and myriad others reached the highest perfection of melody in the sweetest sounds in compositions about him. ~ John MacArthur




As we have argued, Paul's flesh had every reason to be ashamed of the gospel that he preached because it contradicted absolutely everything that was held true and sacred among his contemporaries. Yet there is still another reason for fleshly shame: the gospel is an absolutely unbelievable message, a seemingly ludicrous word to the wise of the world.

As Christians, we sometimes fail to realize how utterly astounding it is when anyone truly believes our message. In a sense, the gospel is so far-fetched that its spread throughout the Roman Empire is proof of its supernatural nature. What could ever bring a Gentile, completely unaware of Old Testament Scriptures and rooted in either Greek philosophy or pagan superstitions, to believe such a message about a man named Jesus?

- He was born under questionable circumstances to a poor family in one of the most despised regions of the Roman Empire, [and yet] the gospel claims that He was the eternal Son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of a Jewish virgin.

- He was a carpenter by trade and an itinerant religious teacher with no official training, [and yet] the gospel claims that He surpassed the combined wisdom of every Greek philosopher and Roman sage of antiquity.

- He was poor and had no place to lay His head, [and yet] the gospel claims that for three years He fed thousands by a word, healed every manner of illness among men, and even raised the dead.

- He was crucified outside of Jerusalem as a blasphemer and an enemy of the state, [and yet] the gospel claims that His death was the pivotal event in all of human history and the only means of salvation from sin and reconciliation with God.

- He was placed in a borrowed tomb, [and yet] the gospel claims that on the third day He rose from the dead and presented Himself to many of His followers. Forty days later, He ascended into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

- Thus, the gospel claims that a poor Jewish carpenter, who was rejected as a lunatic and a blasphemer by His own people and crucified by the state, is now the Savior of the world, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. At His name, every knee, including Caesar's, will bow.

Who could have ever believed such a message except by the power of God? There is no other explanation. The gospel would have never made its way out of Jerusalem, let alone beyond the Roman Empire and into every nation of the world, except that God had ordained to work through it. The message would have died at its birth had it dependent upon the organizational abilities, eloquence, or apologetic powers of its preachers. All the missionary strategies in the world and all the clever marketing schemes borrowed from Wall Street could never have advanced this foolish stumbling block of a message.

Taken from: The Gospel's Power & Message by Paul Washer, p53-54



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by VoiceInTheWilderness
 


The whole monotheism thing is the mask. It tries to disguise the triune forces by transmuting them into one solid entity. But this, to my thinking, fosters a dominance complex whereas the triune forces in their former incarnation promoted a sense of balance and harmony between distinct but wholly interrelated elements. Such elements may be translations of each other to the extent that they operate on similar principles within different mediums, but they do not share the same identities.

Father/Mother/Son
Wisdom/Passion/Balance
Humility/Compassion/Moderation
Mind/Soul/Body
Liquid/Gas/Solid

Monotheism is a perversion of pantheism. It occurs to me that monotheism is the weaponization of spirituality, using it as a club to knock out other cultures and sow your own brand of thinking.
edit on 3-12-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



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