It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Stoning adulterers may once again be reinstated in Afghanistan.

page: 4
4
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 07:19 AM
link   
As far as I see it God said Don't commit adultery, but he didn't add stone them that do. This act was thought up by man, for the benefit of man. Done purely so man could be sure his offspring were his and no other man's. In short purely for his peace of mind.

Religion has always ruled by fear but one that incites brutal murder is something decent people should be weighing up and wondering if they want some of these rules in their lives for themselves and their children.
Also adultery is a very hard temptation and being human, it happens, but should a life be taken for such an action, do we really put it on the level of serial killing and raping, murder etc I don't think so.




posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 07:30 AM
link   
Why Didn't Jesus Cast the First Stone?

First, we must keep in mind that the truest justice comes not when the Law is enforced by those who are themselves transgressors of it (as all mankind are), but when it is enforced by He who is sinless, who is in no way a transgressor of the Law of God (cf. Heb 4:15; 1 Pet 2:22; 1 Jn 3:5). When Jesus said to the Pharisees, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone,” He basically revealed to the crowd that He is the ultimate Judge, not the Pharisees (or anyone else, for that matter).

Once He established that, He went on to enforce the Law when He said to the woman, “Go and sin no more.” After all, the purpose or spirit of this particular law (which the Pharisees so often neglected) was to impress upon Israel the gravity of the sin of adultery. Jesus acknowledged this when He told the woman to never do it again.

Finally, note that stoning the woman would have meant the condemnation of both the sin and the woman. She would have died in sin and suffered total separation from God. But, Jesus came to condemn sin, not sinners. He came to save what was lost, not to lose it (cf. Lk 19:10; Jn 12:47; 18:9). So, by preventing the stoning while at the same time commanding the woman to “Go and sin no more,” Jesus condemns the sin but saves the sinner. In this way, He is both Just and Merciful, and He brings about the fulfillment of the law in question.


So Islam in Afghanistan calls for mob murder of people (probably mostly women ) accused of adultery. But Christianity calls for forgiveness and for people not to be judgmental of others. Let the courts decide punishment for breaking the marriage contract. hmmm .... which is more likely to come from a loving God??

Matthew 7:2: For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.

Luke 6:37: "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Luke 7:40-43: And Jesus answering said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." And he answered, "What is it, Teacher?" "A certain creditor had two debtors; one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he forgave them both. Now which of them will love him more?" Simon answered, "The one, I suppose, to whom he forgave more." And he said to him, "You have judged rightly."

Matthew 18:15: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

James 4:12: There is one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you that you judge your neighbor?
edit on 12/4/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 07:37 AM
link   
Check out how they do stoning in Iran.
Talk about a bunch of bloodthirsty uncivilized neanderthals ...

Stoning wikipedia

Article 102 – An adulterous man shall be buried in a ditch up to near his waist and an adulterous woman up to near her chest and then stoned to death.

Article 103 – In case the person sentenced to stoning escapes the ditch in which they are buried, then if the adultery is proven by testimony then they will be returned for the punishment but if it is proven by their own confession then they will not be returned.

Article 104 – The size of the stone used in stoning shall not be too large to kill the convict by one or two throws and at the same time shall not be too small to be called a stone.


The stones have to be not large enough to kill by one or two throws ... the sickos want the poor person to suffer a long while while being stoned by the bloodthirsty mob. DISGUSTING.

And if the person 'escapes being buried up to their chest while rocks are raining down upon their heads' (obviously not likely)... and if the person 'confesses' after being stoned and having received major concussions and brain damage, they might be allowed to live. But considering their heads have been bashed in and major damage inflicted, they won't exactly be able to function even IF they are alive.

STUPIDITY. ABSOLUTE STUPIDITY.


edit on 12/4/2013 by FlyersFan because: spelling



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 07:43 AM
link   
spike their water supply with Acid... problem solved.

it should give them metaphoric capabilities?

they have a little problem over there...
edit on th470813p0700000008R47 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 07:52 AM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



But Christianity calls for forgiveness and for people not to be judgmental of others.


Christianity has Jesus telling people to do and observe what the Pharisees tell you. His reason was that they sat in Moses seat. i.e Authorities on the law.

"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. - Matthew 23:2-3

So if Jesus and the Pharisees were alive today, and you would have to "do and observe" as the Pharisees tell you, according to what Jesus said. That would also include stoning, as practised by the Pharisees.
edit on 4-12-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 07:57 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Jesus is alive and well... and he already took care of the Pharisees.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 08:01 AM
link   

Shiloh7

Also adultery is a very hard temptation and being human, it happens, but should a life be taken for such an action, do we really put it on the level of serial killing and raping, murder etc I don't think so.


Really? How hard a temptation can it be when there are people who never are tempted to commit adultery? Loving your spouse is a matter of your will to do so when you take the vow before God.

But yes, what should happen if you take the vow before God, to promise to God and the whole congregation that you won't commit adultery? It would then be blasphemous to God to take His name in the wedding vows, without meaning it, and then trampling on the name to commit adultery. So in real essence, it's kind of a blasphemy.

Therefore, the sin is against God, because you took the vow in His name, against the congregation because you used them as the witnesses for your oath covenant and against your spouse, because you violated the blood covenant with them. So adultery is a big deal.

But stoning people for it? Let's just say this, how about making the adulterers feel ashamed of even thinking about it, which is what Jesus said if you lust after another in your heart, you've already committed adultery. Jesus could have gone around stoning every man who even thought about it, but He didn't, because He was teaching that you made the vow in God's name, so let God make you ashamed of it.

But there are people who have no shame, and flagrantly take the vow and not mean it. If you really meant to love your spouse then it can't be a temptation. Really. I don't know why people just can't figure out that lust is the root of adultery and the one who can't overcome their lust should not get married at all. And if they don't want to burn in their lust, and that's what lust is, a burning desire, then they should put the fire out and get married.

You don't have to stone people when they have consumed their lust and burned their spouse and family and the community and the very vow before God. But if the wife picks the TV and throws it at her cheating husband, then I'm not going to tell her not to. Just let them divorce, which is what the law of Moses said and Jesus reminded them, and then let the wife or husband make them ashamed. It's worse to have to live with the consequences than to be killed and forgotten about.

But when the accusation of adultery is brought in Islam, it is never just because the woman did it, usually she had no choice in it or simply because she was seen without the veil. That's the unfairness Muslims use when trying to justify it by saying the Bible said it first. And then they say Mohammed is the one to be emulated, so what can you do about people who emulate a child raping adulterer and murderer?

If Mohammed is the one to be emulated, then maybe it's justice if they die by poison from a woman they raped and then killed her husband. They want to emulate Mohammed, so let the same judgment come to them. They aren't trying to emulate Jesus.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 08:06 AM
link   
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



and he already took care of the Pharisees.

He is, but it doesn't answer why he told people to "observe and do" as the Pharisees told them.

The Pharisees were known to use the brutal stoning punishment according to the law of Moses. Yet Jesus, who spared the adulteress, seemed to acknowledged the authority of the same Pharisees... because they sat in the chair of Moses.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 08:12 AM
link   

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



But Christianity calls for forgiveness and for people not to be judgmental of others.


Christianity has Jesus telling people to do and observe what the Pharisees tell you. His reason was that they sat in Moses seat. i.e Authorities on the law.

"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. - Matthew 23:2-3

So if Jesus and the Pharisees were alive today, and you would have to "do and observe" as the Pharisees tell you, according to what Jesus said. That would also include stoning, as practised by the Pharisees.
edit on 4-12-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


And Jesus said to the Pharisees "Because of the hardness of your hearts is why the law of Moses allowed divorce for adultery" and "If you look on a woman with lust, you've committed adultery already in your heart".

See, the Pharisees were guilty of that and He was reminding them of violating the law of Moses by not allowing divorce and the root cause of adultery. Jesus said that MEN were guilty. Jesus is very much about the condition of the heart. Do and observe means you do the right thing always. We are to be Christ-like, not Pharisee-like. Do and observe means follow every bit of the law, even the laws that say forgive and have mercy, which is what the Pharisees were reminded to do. Yes, mercy and forgiveness trumps easy punishment every time. The Pharisees were committing adultery in their hearts and Jesus made it very clear that God knew it.

The heart condition, that's the true message of the Bible.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 08:16 AM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



Let's just say this, how about making the adulterers feel ashamed of even thinking about it, which is what Jesus said if you lust after another in your heart, you've already committed adultery.


When was the last time you saw a Christian turn the other cheek after being slapped?

Have you heard of a Christian who gouged his right eye out after looking at a woman with lust?

Do you know of a Christian divorcee who considers himself an adulterer?

How many of your Christian friends have sold all their wealth and given the proceeds to the poor?


You don't like Islam, fine.
You don't think Old Testament law applies to you, fine.

But Jesus, of the New Testament?? How about at least following what Jesus said? Or are you going to invent reasons on as to why even Jesus' teachings don't apply to you?



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 08:22 AM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



Do and observe means you do the right thing always. We are to be Christ-like, not Pharisee-like. Do and observe means follow every bit of the law, even the laws that say forgive and have mercy, which is what the Pharisees were reminded to do. Yes, mercy and forgiveness trumps easy punishment every time. The Pharisees were committing adultery in their hearts and Jesus made it very clear that God knew it.


Despite knowing that the Pharisees were white-washed tombs, Jesus clearly acknowledged the Pharisees authority on the law... and he instructed people to "do and observe" as the Pharisees told them. His reason was because they were authorities on the law. Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees... not the law that they they were authorities on.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 08:31 AM
link   

sk0rpi0n
it doesn't answer why he told people to "observe and do" as the Pharisees told them.

Christian Theology 101 ... VERY simple when put in context.

The Pharisees and Sadducees were trying to trip Jesus up so they could put him to death. If Jesus had said they Pharisees had no authority, or that the law was wrong, He would have been put to death instantly ... before his mission was complete.

Therefore, He went around their tricks. He said ... follow the law (so He wouldn't be put to death) BUT He then said ... stone the person only if you are without sin. Which of course no one was.

He even drew in the sand in front of them. Tradition holds that he was writing their names and their sins in the sand so that they would all be reminded that they were sinners and should be merciful as God was merciful towards them.


sk0rpi0n
Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees... not the law that they they were authorities on.

No. He had a problem with both. And he found a way around them. He got around the tricks
the Pharisees were trying to do with him. Tricks that would have lead to his death.
He said follow the law ONLY IF you are without sin.
It was brilliant on his part. Obviously he didn't want anyone to follow the bloodthirsty law.
And if Jesus didn't want them following it ... then the law wasn't from God to begin with.


sk0rpi0n
How about at least following what Jesus said?

You, as a Muslim, are instructed to do that. So how about you get started on that ??
Jesus was absolutely against stoning a person to death.
edit on 12/4/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 09:01 AM
link   

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



Let's just say this, how about making the adulterers feel ashamed of even thinking about it, which is what Jesus said if you lust after another in your heart, you've already committed adultery.



When was the last time you saw a Christian turn the other cheek after being slapped?

Many times, even I have. Wow, I think you are trying to play a game here.


Have you heard of a Christian who gouged his right eye out after looking at a woman with lust?
If their hearts are made right, then they wouldn't be lusting, so no need for eye gouging. I think you just don't know that Christianity is about a change in the condition of the heart. How is it you people never seem to grasp the concept that Jesus taught your heart is wicked and He can change it to make it right?


Do you know of a Christian divorcee who considers himself an adulterer?

After divorce, remarriage is not adultery. But yes, I do know Christians who have remarried after they committed adultery and then went back to their former spouse and repented to them for it. Yes, and I think you again just don't understand Christian teaching. You are thinking it is all natural, like Islam is, and never understand that Christianity is about the spiritual. Stop thinking Christianity and Islam are the same thing, they come from two very different places, so it would be better if you stopped applying the standards and worldviews of Islam onto Christianity, because Islam never teaches that you have a helper and life changer.


How many of your Christian friends have sold all their wealth and given the proceeds to the poor?


How many do you know? And here's a little thing about Christianity, we are taught that we should not openly display our charity or brag about it, but get this, sometimes we often make sure we have enough wealth to keep giving from our wealth. Giving your whole wealth away isn't going to do you or others any good, but the concept in that is to give without expecting in return, because your heart is generous in giving. That's the real concept.


You don't like Islam, fine.

I don't like Islam and wish you would stop comparing it to Christianity. The two are completely not compatible and not comparable. But don't flout Mohammed's lies about the Bible and allah, as though Mohammed knew what Christianity was about, because he didn't. When you put the Islamic worldview into trying to explain the Bible, understand that the Islamic worldview is anti-Biblical.


You don't think Old Testament law applies to you, fine.

Again, the Islamic world-view retrojected onto the Bible without even knowing what the OT laws actually say and what the rest of the OT teaches. Perhaps you should read it some more instead of just the parts imams tell you to. Grace, peace, longsuffering, mercy and kindness, there are no laws against. That's what Christianity teaches and surprising, even the OT. You might have known that if you read it.


But Jesus, of the New Testament?? How about at least following what Jesus said? Or are you going to invent reasons on as to why even Jesus' teachings don't apply to you?


Do you even know what Jesus taught? You seem to think Jesus was just going around randomly saying things to people without ever giving them context, and if you read the whole message, then you might understand that what He was teaching, was for a specific reason in that person's life. But no, you always think "Jesus said it" but never know the reason why.

Can you, without any help whatsoever and doing all the works you are taught to do, can you ever get your heart right before God? No, never. That's what Jesus does for you, and that's what you don't understand. No matter how many works you think you can do, it can never make your heart right. Which is exactly what Jesus taught, so don't think I don't follow what Jesus taught. You just don't what Jesus does.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 09:17 AM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


@FlyersFan

Muslims do not understad the worldview of Christianity to begin with. They are applying Islamic standards of natural works above the life changing work of Jesus Christ.

When they believe that no one else can do it for you, then they can't grasp the comprehension that this was the purpose for Jesus coming into this world in the first place.

Jesus came into this world with the foreknowledge of coming to save mankind and to change their hearts and lives. Jesus was with the Father before the beginning, He is with the Father now. The simple concept of Jesus knowing and being ordained before the foundation of the world, is something they can't understand.

Jesus came into this world knowing the cross was His destination, and the purpose for the destination. Because through the cross, came the death of the old order and brought through His resurrection, the defeat of the old way and now a new way is for mankind. And it changes the heart when you understand this. Mohammed took it backwards a thousand years and was like a pharisee himself. He didn't acknowledge the work of Christ on the cross or the understanding that Christ is forever the same, eternally in heaven with God, was God and will be God forever.

Muslims are still living in the OT, still waiting for the Messiah. But God moved the Jews forward, and even though they don't believe Jesus as the Messiah yet, the work at the cross also changed the ways of the Jews. They aren't in the OT any more either, so yes, the cross has even saved them. They just don't realize it yet.

The Jews don't sacrifice any more and neither do they stone people, because their hearts have been changed, but still their eyes will be opened one day by God. The Jews and Christians are saved from the OT way, that day is over. We are in a new day. Muslims though, choose to go back to the OT, still waiting for the Messiah.

I can see that Christ accomplished the work for the very people He was sent for. They aren't the same as they were 2,000 years ago. But Muslims, are 3,000 years behind. I can see this.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 09:47 AM
link   

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



and he already took care of the Pharisees.

He is, but it doesn't answer why he told people to "observe and do" as the Pharisees told them.
that more than likely was the command because of the culmination of what was about to happen? it had to be.


The Pharisees were known to use the brutal stoning punishment according to the law of Moses. Yet Jesus, who spared the adulteress, seemed to acknowledged the authority of the same Pharisees... because they sat in the chair of Moses.

I don't know nothing about adultery, in my country people do not own one another even in marriage... the only time adultery most likely would come into play here is in divorce court.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 10:48 AM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Jesus was a Rabbi and easily could have picked up the rocks and stoned the woman 'caught in adultery' to death. But He didn't. And He told everyone else not to either.

Can anyone honestly picture Jesus, or His mother Mary, picking up rocks and bashing in someones head with them? Answer .... NO, of course not.

This is 2014 AD .. not 1000 BC. You'd think people would have evolved. You'd think people would have woken up to the fact that the 'Old Testament laws' about stoning a person to death didnt' come from God. (Jesus confirmed it when He said not to stone anyone) But no .... many with blood lust still cling to it.

What is really sickening is that there are people in the world who actually think it's a good thing to pick up rocks and bash in the heads of others with them. They actually think it makes God happy. They aren't using their brains. I guess you just can't fix stupid.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 11:09 AM
link   

SisyphusRide

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



and he already took care of the Pharisees.

He is, but it doesn't answer why he told people to "observe and do" as the Pharisees told them.
that more than likely was the command because of the culmination of what was about to happen? it had to be.


The Pharisees were known to use the brutal stoning punishment according to the law of Moses. Yet Jesus, who spared the adulteress, seemed to acknowledged the authority of the same Pharisees... because they sat in the chair of Moses.

I don't know nothing about adultery, in my country people do not own one another even in marriage... the only time adultery most likely would come into play here is in divorce court.


And if they were still going by stoning today, then every Jewish person that eats bacon and shellfish would be stoned, then there would be very few Jewish people today.

I am go glad no one stoned my Jewish great-great grandparents, I wouldn't be here today, those bacon eaters....

But not all Pharisees were stoning people, just a few. Nicodemus was a Pharisee and yet Jesus had a very long dialogue with him. And Jesus was always invited to the Pharisees' homes for parties. That's where Mary of Bethany anointed His feet. They didn't stone Mary of Bethany for knowing she was a prostitute, and she was redeemed from it. Mary of Bethany was the sister of Lazarus and Jesus seemed to care deeply for that whole family. They didn't seem to have been wealthy like the Pharisees were, but it didn't matter to Jesus if people were rich or poor. He is not a respecter of persons.
edit on 12/4/2013 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 12:48 PM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


I just now noticed what you said:

Instead he said the law is to reman until heaven and earth pass away. "Law" includes the laws to deal with adulterers and the laws prohibiting swine meat.


And I'm wondering if, by that statement, you mean that you think 'stoning adulterers' is appropriate NOW.

Also, this occurred to me: Is it that you are saying "adulterers are swine"?


edit on 12/4/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 02:42 PM
link   

wildtimes
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


I just now noticed what you said:

Instead he said the law is to reman until heaven and earth pass away. "Law" includes the laws to deal with adulterers and the laws prohibiting swine meat.


And I'm wondering if, by that statement, you mean that you think 'stoning adulterers' is appropriate NOW.

Also, this occurred to me: Is it that you are saying "adulterers are swine"?


edit on 12/4/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


Wildtimes

We do often say men are pigs.....lol

I wonder how they really can look at Mohammed as someone to emulate when he broke EVERY law. Not just a few, but EVERY. Not only did he break the laws according to Arab culture, he broke every law written in the Torah. So by their own push for stoning people, then Mohammed should have been stoned.

And if Mohammed lived in the time of the prophets they claim to believe in, Mohammed WOULD have been stoned for being a false prophet.

He broke the laws of adultery when he annulled the marriage of his adopted nephew so he could marry the young man's wife. He stole the woman from his own nephew, and they say he is someone to emulate. Not only that, Mohammed then made adoption no longer permissible for the Arabs. And not only that, he brags to Aisha that all those women were having sex with him so they could be saved. Yes, this is in the Hadiths, and Aisha responds with "I think your lord hastens to fill your desires". She nailed him on that, it is written in the Hadiths, but the Muslims say Mohammed is the one to be emulated.



Mohammed and Zainab...from the Quran

This is a man being a pig, so he should have been stoned according to the very laws Muslims are appealing to...



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 03:38 PM
link   

WarminIndy
This is a man being a pig, so he should have been stoned according to the very laws Muslims are appealing to...

WOW ... that was an interesting cartoon you posted. It's amazing that anyone bought his crap.
He was a sex obsessed liar. Every time he lusted up after someone, he supposedly had a
revelation from God that it was okay to boink. Wow. Just .... WOW.

You are right. According to his own made up religion, he should have been stoned to death.



new topics

top topics



 
4
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join