Stoning adulterers may once again be reinstated in Afghanistan.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

''Stoning for adultery is a God given Law and it cannot be changed, even Jesus pbuh did not directly say not to do it.

That is incorrect...

He said not to do it UNLESS you are SINLESS... and guess what... There isn't a single person on the planet that is sinless... babies perhaps...

That means DON'T DO IT...

Im pretty shocked that there are people condoning this crap honestly...

You two keep saying its a "God given Law"... what god gave this law?

Of course... the tyrannical maniac in the OT... no other so called "god" would be that hateful and disgusting

Even Satan wouldn't tell people to toss stones at someone... He'd rather let them live and sin like crazy...

A God given law is FORGIVENESS... and MERCY!

Im sorry but anyone who condones stoning is frickin Nutz!!

reply to post by FlyersFan


There are a few things to consider concerning this law that you should know. The ONLY time the hudood (the punishments such as stoning etc.) can be carried out according to the holy narrations are when the nation is under a "Just Islamic Government." Not simply an islamic government, but a JUST islamic government.

Now, I know you will disagree here, and of course that is your right to have a different faith, but since we are talking about the laws in my faith, I am sure you can bear with me if you would like to learn a little more.

These laws stand from the days of old, and they are in the old testament. And in my religion, they still stand, but the circumstances in regards to them being able to be carried out are quite specific. A JUST government is one of those prerequisites.

There are many narrations which state that the only just islamic government is under the Imam (atf) because He is without sin, and many narrations which spell out the way for us to conduct an Islamic government. While, in the absence of the Imam it cannot be truly just, it does appear to be possible to implement these laws even in His absence, and most scholars even the ones of old appear to hold to this view (what is the exact right only God knows, we simply do the best we can as fallible humans)... but such decisions can never be taken lightly.

The requirement is for 4 adult witnesses to have seen the actual act of sexual intercourse. In order for the act of sex to be physically witnessed by 4 people you would near need to be having sex in the street. Therefore in this case, what goes on in the bedroom is between you and God until which time as you publicize it.

With the advent of DNA testing and whatnot it has been deemed that DNA testing can be used as conclusive proof of rape in place of some of the required witnesses, but unanimously or near to it, most scholars feel like DNA evidence cannot be used in place of witnesses where concerns adultery because that was such a steep requirement the thought has always been that it was more to keep promiscuity from influencing negatively the rest of society.

Islam and religion in general has a great regard for the family unit, and adultery is something that destroys not only the commiter of the act but all those around him or her. Adultery results in divorce, divorce leads to single parent families, single parent families lead to broken children, greater poverty and other such bad things which in turn affects society.

Having the punishment being so harsh, is a scare tactic more than anything... when death, a gruesome and horrible one at that is possible, it makes you think twice or even three times. But God is merciful, and makes it near impossible to prove, unless your the village idiot.

Where concerns Afghanistan, they do not have an Islamic government let alone a just one, nor will they in any foreseeable future therefore they miss requirement one imho.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Im sorry my friend but single parent families do not lead to broken children

A child needs ONE Good parent... two is obviously preferable, but just because a child has only one parent does not mean the child will be "broken"

that is a myth... and I am proof of that myth

and so are several of my friends

reply to post by OpinionatedB

I don't care that they are old established laws and I don't care that the old religions have them.
This is 2013. It's almost 2014.
To stone to death anyone, for any reason, is just INSANE.

It's just plain wrong.
If someone breaks a marriage contract, then they can be punished via a court system.
Punished financially. Punished in a civilized manner.

If you want to bring religion into it ... your prophet Jesus said NOT to stone anyone.

But since people can't agree on religion, it's best to leave religion out of it.
The civilized thing to do .... punish those who violate a marriage contract
via a court system and through financial means.

reply to post by FlyersFan


in your own books Jesus never said not to stone anyone... He said " "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Shia do believe the Prophet (saw) and Imam (atfs) are without sin... whether or not you choose to agree it is our very strong belief, and these are our laws. Also, our laws are not dependent upon your books...

It sounds like you simply have a very serious personal problem with what is in the old testament. Jesus NEVER once said "gee, that is so barbaric" or that "the laws of God are barbaric and evil" or that "anyone who follows God's laws are insane"

The law is for all time, life is not only law, and it is not only spirituality, life is about having a balance of both law and spirituality, not replacing one for another in any direction... religion is about balance.

OpinionatedB
in your own books Jesus never said not to stone anyone... He said " "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Right there he said not to stone anyone.
Since NO ONE is without sin, therefore NO ONE can stone another person.

The law is for all time,

And GOD never said to stone people ...
People claimed God said it. But he didn't.

JESUS absolutely said not to stone anyone.
I'll trust what He said ....

reply to post by FlyersFan


If Jesus' words were for all time then he would have specifically said "thou shalt not stone people for adultery" UNLESS the law was meant to stand BECAUSE there would come others after who were without sin.

Also... as to following the teachings of Jesus (as) He specifically said:

" Matthew 23; Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. "

If you aren't following the law you are not following the teachings of the words of Jesus himself.

Life, in all of its many forms is a sacred wonder.

The Buddha did not travel during the rain seasons, as to avoid stepping on worms and other bugs.

Jains wear medical masks in order to avoid accidentally eating or killing insects or microbes.

I feel that it is a great act of compassion and kindness to capture bugs from inside the house and to place them kindly outside. It is a great act of wisdom and understanding to treat animals and plants with respect, and to only use and kill plants and animals as needs be. It is a great act of Love to treat other people as yourself.






Now, all of these Islamic Apologists stream into this thread with statements of Just, Family, and Divine.....

If Islamic sexual Laws are so just,....

• Why can a man rape his slaves? Is slave sex good for the family?

• Why can a man keep slaves at all? Is slave keeping good for the impressionable children of a family?

• Why can't women rape their slaves?

• Why can a man have 4 wives?

• Why can't a women have 4 husbands?

• Why are there promises of sexual Houri for obedient and faithful Muslim men, but no mention of sexual pleasure for Muslim women?



Islam is not about "just sexual laws". It is about misogynistic, male dominated, sexual hypocrisy. Islam caters to the loins of ignorant men.

Muhammad ibn Abdullah commanded a 4-wife maximum for his followers, but he himself avoided adultery by allowing himself to marry as many women as he wanted. A real Hugh Hefner there with a harem and all!



I am over here trying to be kind, compassionate, and loving to bugs, animals, and plants,.... and we have this "religion of peace" promoting archaic barbarism towards fellow humans? "Oh cruel world with such people in it!"

If Allah is so powerful, I dare him to fight jihad all on his own without humans.

If Allah is so powerful, I dare him to stone adulterers instead of telling humans to do it.

This stuff is the work of men, not the work of the 'One That Is All'.

OpinionatedB
If Jesus' words were for all time then he would have specifically said "thou shalt not stone people for adultery" UNLESS the law was meant to stand BECAUSE there would come others after who were without sin.

No. There are NONE who are without sin. Not then. Not now. Not ever.
And certainly none of the yahoos in Afghanistan are sinless.

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Isaiah 64:6 We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

1 John 1:8-10 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

If you aren't following the law you are not following the teachings of the words of Jesus himself.

Jesus set the law ... 'let him without sin cast the first stone'. NO ONE is without sin.
Therefore, no one can stone another person.

Obviously the ancient so-called laws of God telling people to stone each other really didn't come from God. You admit JESUS came from God ... His Word is the Law of God ... and since His Word is without question, then those people who claimed to speak for God previously, really were not.

There is no excuse for stoning a person to death.
This is 2014. People need to evolve.

"We are working on the draft of a sharia penal code where the punishment for adultery, if there are four eyewitnesses, is stoning," said Rohullah Qarizada, who is part of the sharia Islamic law committee

In addition, the entire Islamic court system is misogynistic and male dominated!

Allah and Muhammad said that one woman's testimony is equal to half of a man's. So we can get 4 men to testify against a women for adultery,... but we must hear 8 women testify against one man?

Women are almost always the victims of Islam's backward "Divinely just sexual laws".

Jesus words from ISLAM .... (43:63-65) "When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me.

Jesus words from CHRISTIAN scripture ....(John 8:7) "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone".

So to the Muslims here actually defending stoning a person to death ....
OBEY YOUR PROPHET JESUS ... He said not to stone anyone.

And as an aside to the Muslim readers;

It is a wonderful thing that Islam places such essence of responsibility and strengthening of the family structure. In my personal rejection of stoning the adulterer, in no way is this a sign that I am one who is a propagator of immorality or weakened families.

Muhammad's message was extremely relevant for his time and place. Non-religious historic records indicate the uplifting of the Arab and Muslim people,... out of an even darker time of ignorance (Jahiliyah).

But as mankind proceeds throughout the ages, we have now realized that some things in Islam must now be absolutely changed!

• Slavery: Islam allows certain rights to slaves, and uses the release of slaves as a forgiveness for sins,... Allah or Muhammad never utterly stamped out this detestable concept. Islam allows slaves, and allows the absolute sexual use of a slave to their master. Slavery is 100% out of the picture for a loving and compassionate mankind!

• Wife Beating: Right there in the Qur'an, men are allowed to beat their wives if they are disobedient. Some translate to "hit lightly". So you tell me that Allah and his Qur'an are the most eloquent and divine of words,... but both Allah and Muhammad are tongue-tied on spousal diplomacy? Me and my loved one use words to get through it. Maybe loud words but definitely not resorting to violence. Wife beating is 100% out of the picture.


Simple things like this, and we can go on and on to a multitude of other points beyond these,...

According to mankind's progression through the ages, we can all work towards the obliteration of higher status of one above another, slavery, separation, and violence. Islam only can do these things through "conquer or convert". Take away jihad, slavery, wife abuse, death because of speech, belief, non-belief, apostasy, ideology, etc. Erase those out of the Qur'an. Get a multi-national, cross-denominational, cross-sectarian council together, and for the sake of mankind, let's all reject such edicts from Islam. Can't do it? Then it's not the religion of peace.

Believe in the good. Reject the bad.

reply to post by FlyersFan


whatever excuse you can make to cover your own sin there I suppose. To each his own. Someday, when you are not so full of hate, perhaps you can read what I wrote.

reply to post by FlyersFan


The Bible also says this, and yet most people do not live by it:

" Always rejoice, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks for this is The Will of God for you in Jesus Christ " 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

reply to post by FlyersFan

It's not 'God's Law' to stone a person to death. It's the law of uneducated uncivilized peasants.

Not surprising coming from someone who rejects Moses. Well, this isn't the thread to discuss Moses prophethood.

JESUS said 'let you who are without sin cast the first stone'. He said it isn't God's Law to stone people.

Really? Mention the chapter and verse where Jesus said the words "it isn't God's Law to stone people.". Instead he said the law is to reman until heaven and earth pass away. "Law" includes the laws to deal with adulterers and the laws prohibiting swine meat.

stoning a person to death because of adultery is degenerate. It's blood lust. It's disgusting.

Take it up with God and Jesus. Both said that the law is to remain.

JOHN 8:7 - JESUS said Let him without sin cast the first stone. That's VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD. No translation needed. DO NOT STONE PEOPLE.

Jesus said "go ahead, stone her", on the condition that the first stone be cast by a sinless man.
He was dealing with a bunch of hypocritical Pharisees who were trying to corner him. He said that to turn the tables on the Pharisees, not because the law stopped applying.

No he didn't. And Jesus said just the opposite .. DO NOT STONE PEOPLE.

Again, SHOW ME the verse where Jesus said "Do not stone people".

Instead, the two muslim men want everyone to adopt their views as if it's the norm and accept it as the real way civilized people should act.

Defending a view does not equal asking others to adopt the view. Even you know that.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Jesus words from ISLAM .... (43:63-65) "When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me.

Jesus words from CHRISTIAN scripture ....(John 8:7) "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone".

Of course,

"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. - Matthew 23:2-3

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. - Matthew 5:17-18

So to the Muslims here actually defending stoning a person to death .... OBEY YOUR PROPHET JESUS ... He said not to stone anyone.

Read above. Jesus said to listen to those who sat in the seat of Moses... who also practised stoning.
Jesus also said that the not a tiny bit of the law would disappear until heaven and earth pass away.

So, its the Christians who should be obeying Jesus.

reply to post by Akragon

That is incorrect... He said not to do it UNLESS you are SINLESS... and guess what... There isn't a single person on the planet that is sinless... babies perhaps... That means DON'T DO IT...

"Don't do it" also applies to adultery. Like I said before, he spared the woman to expose the Pharisees own sins. He did NOT discard the law or any of its contents. He used discretion and God-given authority to work around the law, but he did not discard the law.

You two keep saying its a "God given Law"... what god gave this law?

Figure it out, its easy.

"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. - Matthew 23:2-3

What were the authorities in Moses' seat, telling them about?
The law of Moses, which includes harsh punishments.

Why did Jesus tell them to do as they were told by the Pharisees? Because he acknowledged the law of Moses and the authority of the Pharisees. (He knew the Pharisees themselves don't do it, but thats a different story. Jesus revered the law, which unfortunately, the Pharisees were authorities on.)

Clearly Jesus acknowledged the law, including the harsh ones.
And since Jesus said to "do and observe" as they said, the people were required by Jesus to follow the bits about stoning as well.... and the Pharisees would have surely kept the law on stoning.

I will end with this...

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. - Matthew 5:17-18

And don't tell me that "everything was accomplished" when Jesus died on the cross. Heaven and Earth are still around.

OpinionatedB
whatever excuse you can make to cover your own sin there I suppose. To each his own.

"Cover my own sin" .... that's ABSURD. It's NOT a sin to follow the words of Jesus.
Jesus said not to stone people. It's just that simple.

Someday, when you are not so full of hate, perhaps you can read what I wrote.

So because I say a person shouldn't be stoned to death by a crazed bloodthirsty mob ... somehow that makes ME the one full of hate? More absurdity. You Muslims who want to go around ignoring your prophet Jesus command against stoning people to death are the ones full of hate.

Using your own words - "whatever excuse you can make' to murder another person, eh??
No wonder the civilized world wants no part of Islam moving in ... YIKES!

sk0rpi0n
Again, SHOW ME the verse where Jesus said "Do not stone people".

Again - JOHN 8:7 - Jesus said "Let any of you without sin cast the first stone".

Jesus knew full well that no one would ever be without sin and therefore no one should ever stone a person.

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Isaiah 64:6 We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

1 John 1:8-10 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.

DEFENDING STONING A PERSON TO DEATH IS DISGUSTING.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I think stoning is not literal... it's a "judgement"

everything else is metaphor in a sense, the wind and the trees, swept away ect...

have you ever seen the look on a persons face when your are in and argument and they run out of words to say or their logic fails?

stoning may have to do with teaching... and the methodology.