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I also firmly believe that it is not for me to try to knock someone else off of THEIR path - unless they are trying to dig a pit in mine, or otherwise trying to thwart me.
I usually go along with that.
There are hundreds of paths up the mountain he only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. - Hindu Proverb.
However, I have no problem stating that murder by stoning is uncivilized.
Maybe you don't have one today, but you did yesterday, and you may again tomorrow. You have argued that you are a Christian, which means you have had a religion
No, he did not tell others not to. He told them to have at it when they could find a sinless man to toss the first stone. That is a far cry from saying "don't do it".
He taught to keep you own house clean before cleaning other folks' houses. We have no business imposing punishments on others for things which we ourselves are guilty of.
THAT was the teaching, not "don't do it". He seemed to be a fairly articulate man. Had he meant don't do it, he could have said so.
I have never heard of a Muslim taking pilgrimage to Fatima to worship Mary, nor has any Muslim I know ever heard of it.
The Catholic fascination with injecting Mary into every little conversation never ceases to amuse me.
Then why do you worship her?
I think ANY murder is barbaric, but nearly all civilizations have one form or another of institutionalized killing that sometimes amounts to a murder. Methodology for murder does not make it "not-murder", but it IS civilized! I see no difference in lethally injecting an innocent person and bashing their head in with rocks - the end result is the same. Murder is murder. Just because the other guy's civilization does it differently does not make it "more murder" than the way your own civilization does murder.
Yes, we are discussing two different cultures, two different civilizations here, each doing the same damned thing and pointing the bone at The Other Guy as being somehow less "civilized" or "enlightened" as themselves, since their own murders MUST be "civilized"!
Have a religion .... that mean being Catholic or Methodist or Islamic or whatever.
I have spiritual beliefs ... but not a 'religion'.
A religion implies dogmatic belief and belonging to an organized group.
At least it does to me. And that's not me.
And NO ONE is without sin. He even taught that.
Therefore, he was telling people not to do it.
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about ... this is a discussion thread and we are discussing stoning people to death in Afghanistan. If you want to run around telling people not to discuss issues, then you might as well shut down the boards. I haven't seen anyone talk about 'imposing punishments on others for things we are guilty of'. Who among those here who are against stoning people to death has ever done that? And what exactly is the 'punishment' that people here are trying to impose on others? WHAT are you talking about? Nevermind. I really don't care.
... and he did say so. No one is without sin. He said 'let him without sin cast the first stone'. Therefore, he told people not to do it.
Muslims don't 'worship' Mary. They admire her as a wonderful example of how women are to behave and they admire the fact that she raised a 'prophet'. They visit her home in Turkey. They visit Fatima Portugal. And no ... I"m not getting her visit in Fatima confused with Fatima the person. I know the difference between the two. She's an important figure in their religion.
- I"m not Catholic. I was raised Catholic. But my beliefs now can't fit into any box.
- Your obsession with trying to take her out of the conversation is rather interesting.
- She's an important figure in the muslim religion, which we were discussing.
Look ... if you think it's all so wonderful that people are stoning others to death ... picking up rocks and bashing each others brains in for adultery .... then goodie for you.
ETA ... this is all off topic and rather tiresome. I'm not the topic.
Until the actual topic comes back up .... I"m done.
The largeness of some hypocrisies is sometimes mind boggling
But then again, you don't think human governments violently bombing and invading other humans counts as being "oppressive".
That is a cop out invented by people who want to trash someone else's religion while attempting to make their own immune, since it's "not a religion".
Do you seriously think Jesus was incapable of saying what he meant and meaning what he said?
"by the measure you judge others, you will also be judged".
Can you name a Muslim - ANY Muslim - who has visited Fatima to venerate Mary? I'll wait...
It is a fact that Moslems from various nations, especially from the Middle East, make so many pilgrimages to Our Lady of Fatima's Shrine in Portugal that Portuguese officials have expressed concern. The combination of an Islamic name and Islamic devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary is a great attraction to Moslems.
Fatima, Harissa, Damascus, Samalut, Assiut, Zeitun and many other places where the Virgin appeared are the destination of incessant pilgrimages from Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iran. Pilgrims in search of physical but also spiritual healing; spontaneous and mystical prayer and not the schematic and formal verses of official Islam. The iconoclast Salafists destroy places of pilgrimage every year. But the devotion to Mary is growing, also fueled by the stories of the Koran. The spiritual dialogue between Christians and Muslims is much more promising than cultural, theological or political dialogue.
Each year millions of Muslims come on pilgrimage to the Catholic Marian shrines. Not only to the major shrines such as Fatima in Portugal or Harissa in Lebanon, but also to Egypt, Syria, Iran. Muslims - especially Muslim women - go to give thanks to the Madonna or great Christian saints, like St. Charbel or St. George.
For years now plane loads of Muslim women from Iran have been landing at Fatima, Portugal. They come to pray before Our Lady who appeared to three shepherd children. The reason is that the Madonna was named after the daughter of Muhammad and wife of Ali Ibn Abi Talib.
So just what is the connection between Our Lady of Fatima and Islam? Francis Johnston, in his book, Fatima: The Great Sign, gives a cogent explanation: "The Muslims, who have a certain devotion to Our Lady and recognize her Virgin Birth and Immaculate Conception, were intrigued by the fact that Mary had appeared at Fatima, which was the name of Mohammed's favorite daughter and regarded by the prophet as the highest woman in Heaven after our Lady. In Zanzibar, the Muslim sultan placed a wreath of flowers at the [Fatima]statue's feet, while the Muslim chief of the Ismaeli tribe in Mozambique placed a golden necklace about the statue's neck saying: 'Thank you, Our Lady of Fatima for the work of love you are accomplishing in Africa' "
Given your obsession with Mary, they appear to still be Catholic-shaped.
Not as important as you are implying, nor for the reasons you give.
I never understood why Christians did not follow the law. In all my discussions with Christians no one ever gave any logical reason.
it just stands until refuted - which it has not been.
Calling me a "dick" is not refutation, either...
I found NO names of any Muslims
... Muslims ARE becoming Catholic...
Making the claim that "vast numbers of Muslims make pilgrimages to Marian shrines to worship foreign gods"
Last time I checked a map, Zanzibar was nowhere even near Fatima, Portugal, so that account is obviously false. How could this alleged sultan have placed these alleged flowers at the feet of a statue in Zanzibar when the Fatima cult shrine mentioned is in Portugal?
I have a pretty firm grasp on the role of Mary in Islam, and it is NOT what you claim it is...
The answer "because the bible is a pack of lies" I could have gotten from any atheist. But your right, next time I can ask an atheist what they believe and just know factually it is the modern Christian perspective.
we are left with Christianity mirrors Atheism in many many many ways.
we are left with Christianity mirrors Atheism in many many many ways.