Pope Francis decries idolatry of money over man

Pope Francis denounced what he called big business's idolatry of money over man as he traveled Sunday to one of Italy's poorest regions to offer hope to the unemployed and entrepreneurs struggling to hang on

He said the problems were the result of a global economic system "that has at its center an idol called money."

www.cbsnews.com...

Hope his words are well heard. Also hope he makes some big changes on Church but will be difficult to deal with some powerful groups inside....

I sure hope this will have some effect but i'm afraid if the pope keeps on stepping on the toes of the world leaders somehow he will not be pope for long. At least he has the guts to say what most people ignore out of ignorance.

Bauwser
i'm afraid if the pope keeps on stepping on the toes of the world leaders somehow he will not be pope for long.

I fear for his safety as well. Pope John Paul I was murdered ... poisoned. He dared to say that he wanted the Vatican bank investigated. 'They' got rid of him. I wonder if this is why Pope Francis decided not to live in the papal apartments but instead is living in St. Martha's guest house .... always surrounded by visitors?? It's a more humble thing to do and that fits his personality, but it's also a safer place to be, I'd think.

Difficult Job being the Pope. Even the bravest one must go easy although he must to take risks if he really wants to change things and make the difference.

reply to post by CosmicDude


Does this mean he will order the Vatican to give away all its trillions to those less well off?
Hmm,I somehow doubt it.

reply to post by Silcone Synapse

Even if this is his will he would need a miracle to achieve it

CosmicDude
reply to post by Silcone Synapse

 

Even if this is his will he would need a miracle to achieve it

Why isn't that his will? Why wouldn't that be his will?

Silcone Synapse
reply to post by CosmicDude

 

Does this mean he will order the Vatican to give away all its trillions to those less well off?

You do realize that the vast majority of the wealth of the Roman Catholic church is in stuff that they can't sell off, right? You know, churches, cemeteries, endowments, stuff like that. And do you think it would be a good idea for the Vatican to sell off all that artwork that has been donated to them over the centuries to private collectors, so no one can appreciate them any longer? Myself, I prefer that it remain in the public museums at the Vatican, and in public churches around the world.

Yes, they have money. Yes, they help out the less fortunate. In 2008, Catholic Charities USA spent 7.1 billion (with a "B") dollars on the charitable services to the poor and neglected that it provided. Were you aware of that?

Yes I'm sure that's what was meant, the sale of churches and cemeteries......

But to prefer to have nice paintings/sculptures/etc hanging on a museum wall than help the millions upon millions of people that would be helped if they were to be sold/auctioned is incredibly selfish.

WWJD?

reply to post by Prezbo369

But to prefer to have nice paintings/sculptures/etc hanging on a museum wall than help the millions upon millions of people that would be helped if they were to be sold/auctioned is incredibly selfish.

Is it selfish for the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art or the Smithsonian to exist while there are poor people in New York or Washington, DC?

Again, Catholic Charities USA spent 7.1 billion dollars in one year of charitable giving. How much did you give to the poor in 2008?

adjensen
Is it selfish for the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art or the Smithsonian to exist while there are poor people in New York or Washington, DC?

The difference is the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art or the Smithsonian do not claim to be appointed by the master of the universe nor a force for good in the world.....

Again, Catholic Charities USA spent 7.1 billion dollars in one year of charitable giving. How much did you give to the poor in 2008?

Are you comparing me to Catholic Charities USA? lol

And yes while 7.1 billion is amazing, we were talking about the vatican and the current pope and how much wealth they could give to those that are suffering, starving and dying throughout the world.

And the reason given? it's nice to have nice things...

So, again, WWJD?

reply to post by Prezbo369

Are you comparing me to Catholic Charities USA? lol

Yes.

If you aren't giving everything that you can to the poor, if you aren't selling off assets to help those less fortunate, you are a hypocrite for demanding that someone else do so. The Catholic Church is one of the largest charitable service organizations in the world, operating hospitals, orphanages, schools, food banks, homeless shelters, etc, so it's not like they are doing nothing.

They're just not doing enough to satisfy you, but unless you can demonstrate that you hold some sort of moral high ground, then why should your opinion matter?

adjensen

Silcone Synapse
reply to post by CosmicDude

 

Does this mean he will order the Vatican to give away all its trillions to those less well off?

You do realize that the vast majority of the wealth of the Roman Catholic church is in stuff that they can't sell off, right? You know, churches, cemeteries, endowments, stuff like that. And do you think it would be a good idea for the Vatican to sell off all that artwork that has been donated to them over the centuries to private collectors, so no one can appreciate them any longer? Myself, I prefer that it remain in the public museums at the Vatican, and in public churches around the world.

Yes, they have money. Yes, they help out the less fortunate. In 2008, Catholic Charities USA spent 7.1 billion (with a "B") dollars on the charitable services to the poor and neglected that it provided. Were you aware of that?

Fair enough,they do their part for charity today-but they have a whole load of wealth plundered from many ancient peoples across the globe,which they took when surrplanting their religion upon those peoples.
That should be given back,at the very least IMO.
They have stolen and hidden away knowledge of ancient cultures from the world,not just the peoples they stole it from.
By giving it back,the Vatican would be enriching the cultural history of the whole world,for free-which to me,would go some way to them honoring the Pope's wish to decry the idolatry of money.

adjensen
If you aren't giving everything that you can to the poor, if you aren't selling off assets to help those less fortunate, you are a hypocrite for demanding that someone else do so.

Demanding? I think the way the vatican has lavished itself with vast and grotesque amounts of fine goods to be pretty disgusting and completely at odds with the apparent message of the Jesus character, but am I demanding? no, merely stating that it could and should do more considering the position it (the vatican) holds.

The Catholic Church is one of the largest charitable service organizations in the world, operating hospitals, orphanages, schools, food banks, homeless shelters, etc, so it's not like they are doing nothing.

Yep you've already said as much, and like I said, it's amazing work.

They're just not doing enough to satisfy you, but unless you can demonstrate that you hold some sort of moral high ground, then why should your opinion matter?

My opinion is irrelevant, the facts are what matter. And the facts are that the vatican and the catholic church are the ones that claim to hold the moral highground, the ones claiming to be appointed by the master and creator of the universe, and the ones sitting on an almost bottomless pit of money that make the contributions made in 2008 look like spare change. But why don't they do this?

Because they like to own nice things.

So i'll ask again, WWJD?

Open a museum? or give it all to those that are suffering?

reply to post by adjensen

They're just not doing enough to satisfy you, but unless you can demonstrate that you hold some sort of moral high ground, then why should your opinion matter?

There is a Spiritual value within these words. What would Jesus do in deed?

Laying Up Treasures
"Do not set your treasures on earth, where rust and pestilence destroy, and where thieves dig and steal. 20. "Except, set your treasures in heaven, where neither rust nor pestilence destroy, and where thieves do not dig or steal. 21. "For where your treasure is, there your heart will also be."
(Matthew 6:19–21)

"By their fruit you will know them. Why, do they pluck grapes from wild brush, or figs from thorn bushes?”(Matthew 7:15–16)
www.theguardian.com...

13. And he told them, it is written that, "My house shall be called the house of prayer, you, however, have made it into a robbers' cave." (Matthew 21:13)
news.nationalpost.com...

“One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me”.

How many churches, embassies, cathedrals, monasteries, schools and convents did Christ instruct his disciples to establish?

CosmicDude
reply to post by Silcone Synapse

 

Even if this is his will he would need a miracle to achieve it

Well isn't he in the perfect profession for getting a miracle? I mean, if his god only has so many to pass out, I'm sure he'd kick one down to the Pope.

I do think his will is just, though. I've always been drawn to the Catholic church, despite its history, and I know that it would be the direction I'd go if I ever decided to take a vested interest in the Christian gods. I have a feeling this Pope is going to drastically change the world either by his actions or his martyrdom. I think he'd be okay with either.

The Pope... with all of his gold and jewels, and the Catholic Church with all of their praying and kneeling at crosses and statues of Saints... who is the idolater again?

Pegging the hypocrisy meter there a bit, aren't we?

The Vatican owns 25 percent of the world's gold bullion...

More gold than all world governments combined in fact.( Source )

The Vatican solid gold bullion worth billions, is stored with the Rothschild controlled Bank of England and the US Federal Reserve Bank.

The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator, and property owner in existence. Possessing more material wealth than any bank, corporation, giant trust, or government anywhere on the globe. The Pope, who is the visible ruler of this colossal global wealth is one of the richest men on Earth. While two-thirds of the world earns less than two dollars a day, and one-fifth of the world is under fed or starving to death, the Vatican hordes the world’s wealth, profits from it on the stock market, and at the same time preached about giving.

servantofthelight.com...

"the IRS is being used to funnel money to the Vatican (Jesuits). (Former World Bank Attorney, Karen Hudes) She confirms Vatican's Jesuits are in bed with "governments" (now owned by banks) who promote fake terrorism news to manipulate you."

IRS collects your taxes and gives it to the Vatican

IRS Tax dollars go to Vatican/Bank of England - World Bank whistleblower. In this clip Karen explains how IRS tax dollars are funnelled off to the Vatican and Bank of England.

Murgatroid
Pegging the hypocrisy meter there a bit, aren't we?

The Vatican owns 25 percent of the world's gold bullion...

More gold than all world governments combined in fact.

The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator, and property owner in existence. Possessing more material wealth than any bank, corporation, giant trust, or government anywhere on the globe. The Pope, who is the visible ruler of this colossal global wealth is one of the richest men on Earth. While two-thirds of the world earns less than two dollars a day, and one-fifth of the world is under fed or starving to death, the Vatican hordes the world’s wealth, profits from it on the stock market, and at the same time preached about giving.

So would you rather see the Koch brothers having it or the Pope? It's like being the new CEO of a big corporation. You can't just immediately start screwing over your shareholders by selling off the assets in order to do something decent with it. Besides, do you think he would have more or less power to help the needy if the Catholic church was dirt poor?

It's no like its his personal checking account. I think his sentiments are leading to something a bit more grand.

reply to post by Murgatroid

The Vatican owns 25 percent of the world's gold bullion…

Let's look at the facts, shall we?

According to this: How Much Gold Exists in the World?, there is 377 million pounds of gold above ground. A quarter of that is 94 million pounds. At 14 troy ounces per pound, and the current price of $1,242 per ounce, that would be 1.6 trillion dollars.

Unfortunately, if we look at a credible source, which yours is not, we see from this Forbes article that in 1987, the Vatican owned $100 million in gold, and at the price then, we can back calculate that they had about 222,000 troy ounces of gold, or 15,873 pounds of it, quite a bit short of the 94 million pounds you claim they own.

As for who owns all that bullion, according to this:

About 30,000 tonnes of the world’s gold [20-25% of above ground inventory] is held in central bank vaults. (Source)

That 15,873 pounds in the Vatican coffers is barely even a notable amount.