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A Question to the Scot's Here on ATS? ....

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posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by DrunkYogi
 


I despise Salmond with a passion but to be fair to him leaked minutes from the 79 Group meetings clearly show he was opposed to any links whatsoever to Sinn Fein. I'm not aware of him publicly giving any opinion whatsoever on Irish nationalism etc.
However, I think even a brief study of Salmond and his life would lead one to suggest that he his personal beliefs lean very much towards Socialism and him being a Republican.

Salmond seems to be doing his very best to convince people that a vote for independence is a vote for SNP - he could yet prove to be the Better Together campaigns best weapon.




posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi
Most of my fellow Scot's get on great with English people. I always has a great time when i went there. We are better together, we don't need that twat Salmond stirring up the sh*t. His vote is gonna get it's ass kicked.

Typical Unionist claptrap. It's not Alex's Vote...it's the people of Scotland's Vote for Independence, not a vote for Alex Salmond....some people just dont get that.
edit on 26-11-2013 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



Well the people where happy enough to be part of the Union before this buffoon came along. Just about all of the problems Salmond talks about us poor Scot's suffering is also happening to English and Welsh people. The guy's a fool.

The SNP was founded in the 1930's...it's Not Alex's baby you know.


I know it's not his Sprog. He got suspended by the party for the 79 group's association with Sien fein. They hide their real beliefs behind the Saltire.

Utter Bollocks...Lies Lies and more lies....nice job project Fear/Bigot.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:29 PM
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jrmcleod

alldaylong

Bassago
reply to post by eletheia
 


My mother was Scottish, so being half Scottish as well as living quite a few years in both Scotland and England I have only one thing to say.

    FREEDOM for Scotland NOW!

And that's all I have to say about that.


Scotland ASKED to join the Union in 1707.
No one forced Scotland into it. So why use the word Freedom?

Signed Puzzled Englishman.


Scotland did NOT ask to join the union...the king of Scotland at the time James VI united the crowns of Scotland and England and he became James I of England. The majority of the Scots did NOT want it, hence the uprisings and since that day when one man chose the fate of a nation, the scots have wanted their independence back.


That still doesn't take away the FACT that it was Scots that wanted this ( maybe not all). Yes, your own people. Not The English.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by alldaylong
 


It was the Scottish landowners and nobles, not the people, in a bid to save themselves from the embarrassment that was the Darien scheme.

The Scots were sold out by a minority of greedy landowners. Sound familiar?!



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:36 PM
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beansidhe
reply to post by alldaylong
 


It was the Scottish landowners and nobles, not the people, in a bid to save themselves from the embarrassment that was the Darien scheme.

The Scots were sold out by a minority of greedy landowners. Sound familiar?!


Yes, but those land owners and nobles were still Scots.
The Scots decided to join the Union. It was there choice.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by alldaylong
 


Most were, that's true. But they made up a small percentage of the population.
I don't think most Scots blame the English. I think we'd gladly take the North with us, if they would come. And Wales. It's a certain London-centric attitude that really grates.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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beansidhe
reply to post by alldaylong
 


Most were, that's true. But they made up a small percentage of the population.
I don't think most Scots blame the English. I think we'd gladly take the North with us, if they would come. And Wales. It's a certain London-centric attitude that really grates.


When Scotland joined the Union back in 1707, the UK was at that time London centric.
Nothing has changed over 350 years. Don't you think it grates on the rest of England that the bias is always on London?



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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beansidhe


It was the Scottish landowners and nobles, not the people, in a bid to save themselves from the embarrassment that was the Darien scheme.

The Scots were sold out by a minority of greedy landowners. Sound familiar?!




I take it you mean "were sold out by a minority of greedy Scottish landowners?"

Sound familiar? Yes and they are still there .... maybe in another guise! but there will

always be those there.........

edit on 26-11-2013 by eletheia because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-11-2013 by eletheia because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by alldaylong
 


I'm pretty sure it must be unbearable at times. At least we get to moan about history. You're in the same country, and get ignored. I remember the 'managed decline' comment from Thatcher's government.

By the way, I've just replied to you in the other thread which you might find a bit creepy, that I'm all around being Scottish at you. It's not personal!



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:53 PM
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eletheia

beansidhe


It was the Scottish landowners and nobles, not the people, in a bid to save themselves from the embarrassment that was the Darien scheme.

The Scots were sold out by a minority of greedy landowners. Sound familiar?!




I take it you mean "were sold out by a minority of greedy Scottish landowners?"

Sound familiar? Yes and they are still there .... maybe in another guise! but here will

always be those there.........

edit on 26-11-2013 by eletheia because: (no reason given)


That is exactly what I just said, yes.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi
reply to post by Soloprotocol
 


Your so naive it's unbelievable. I bet your a kilt swinger and bagpipe blower.

Kilts!...Because Balls this size dont fit in trousers....


PMSL!!!!
. Nice one!
Rainbows
Jane



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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Freeborn
reply to post by DrunkYogi
 




Salmond seems to be doing his very best to convince people that a vote for independence is a vote for SNP - he could yet prove to be the Better Together campaigns best weapon.


And THAT is why I have my suspicions about about why Alex was 'brought out' of retirement. He just seems to play it 'just right' to stir up enough enthusiasm, yet just enough negativity to make sure the nays get it. A double agent if you will....but hey...what the heck does my gut instinct know.
Anyone know where Kennedy sits with this?
Rainbows
Jane



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by eletheia
 


I can't vent enough here as I am on my tablet in bed,
but Scottish independence is a Huge mistake.

its all about one wee mans legacy and hatred of the English,
a particular venomous little liar trying to write his own history
before he snuffs it.

Catholics are more in favour of independence than the unionist types, but not sure how much that will effect the outcome.

the young don't know enough to vote but given a vote they have been (cynical thoughts here).

Many lies are being peddled by salmond and his minion's.

I'd nothing else gets through to the yes voters think on this!
you can't base ASN economy on oil and definitely not on declining oil production.


there so much I could write as to why it is such a bad idea.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by rigel4
 



I started this thread as a curious bystander hoping to discover what the average

Scot's man in the street felt about Alex Salmond's frenetic drive to sever Scotland's

ties with the 'United Kingdom'


I have watched Alex Salmond being interviewed on several occasions and your

statement 'QUOTE' >>> "It's all about one wee man's legacy and 'hatred' of the English,

a particularly venomous little liar, trying to write his 'own' history for posterity"

hit the nail square on the head! his insincerity comes over so clearly... it's palpable,

you can almost feel it ......


His penchant for 'cherry picking' has already been mentioned on the thread ..Lol

He wants independence ... but keep the Queen as 'Head of State

He wants to keep the £ ... and that is regulated by the Bank of England

He wants to stay in the EU ... but the EU says, independence makes them a

'new' country so they don't get automatic acceptance - they will have to

reapply. And then they will have to pay their own fee's to be a member of the EU.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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this is anything but a united kingdom we have a post code lottery for health care and many other services and the goverment has only done 30 % of the cuts to services it is planning .

try living in the north of scotland and ordering anything online from ebay etc and you will get a idea of how united we all are .

once you leave the nicely manicured streets of london vast areas of the north of england look like a war zone with little money being spent on it but westminster can find 40 billion for a new train line .

it is the idiot politicians that we should get shot off my 2 cents



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by Ph03n1x
 


I understand your concern and i share them but voting independence doesn't mean the SNP will be in power forever. With independence, more parties will establish themselves and the choice will increase. But none of that will happen if we remain as we are.

Look at the white paper, it answers all of these questions.

This opportunity will never come around again, i just wish people would embrace it for what its worth...it could be life changing - people need to take the risk. For our children, and grandchildren. Give them the opportunity to create a country of their own.

We moan on ATS about the corrupt this and governments that but here we have the opportunity to make it ourselves and what do we do? Nothing...stay with the status quo!!!



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 02:59 AM
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eletheia
reply to post by rigel4
 




He wants independence ... but keep the Queen as 'Head of State - 16 other countries have the queen as head of state and did so after their independence...why is it any different if the Scots want he as head of state?

He wants to keep the £ ... and that is regulated by the Bank of England - The Pound is British and Britain is a geographical area, not a country. England has the English Pound, Scotland has the Scottish Pound. It is as much our pound as it is Englands. Ireland used the BoE base rate for many years before it opted out. This is not an unusual thing

He wants to stay in the EU ... but the EU says, independence makes them a

'new' country so they don't get automatic acceptance - they will have to

reapply. And then they will have to pay their own fee's to be a member of the EU. - Yes we will have to re-apply but Scotland has been an integral part of the EU for 40 years and has generated massive amounts of revenue towards it. Scotland will re-apply in the 18 months after the yes vote and will be accepted.

This isn't about Alex Salmond, this is about Scotland and his vision is shared by at least half of the population, and possibly many more who just don't know it yet. I will also guarantee that if the North of England had the opportunity to break-away, they would.



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 03:04 AM
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rigel4
reply to post by eletheia
 


I can't vent enough here as I am on my tablet in bed,
but Scottish independence is a Huge mistake.

its all about one wee mans legacy and hatred of the English,
a particular venomous little liar trying to write his own history
before he snuffs it.

Catholics are more in favour of independence than the unionist types, but not sure how much that will effect the outcome.

the young don't know enough to vote but given a vote they have been (cynical thoughts here).

Many lies are being peddled by salmond and his minion's.

I'd nothing else gets through to the yes voters think on this!
you can't base ASN economy on oil and definitely not on declining oil production.


there so much I could write as to why it is such a bad idea.


rigel,

Please feel free to write as much as you wish because you have given me a good belly full of laughs so far!!!

The "young don't know enough to vote"...but they obviously know enough to put their life on the line for their country, to have children or get married. - Please take your ignorance somewhere else!



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 03:07 AM
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Unfortunately I won't be in Scotland for the referendum... Even then, still debating whether it would be a good thing or a bad thing. Should have been more clear cut if Salmond wasn't the showrunner for the debate.

The Irish-Scot in me Is all for independence, also the Catholic in me. Purely because Alba was free, and many of my ancestors died for that freedom. The last couple of hundred of years for my Irish-Scot ancestors have been full of misery and forever being driven down.

The Catholic part of me, from one part of my tree, demands the reinstatement of the Stuart lineage. It cannot be fair that a sitting king and his descendants be forced into exile and forever be barred from the throne because they are Catholic. That's not fair. Sure, some Catholic Monarchs treated Protestant people abysmally. However, as a consequence of the Act of the Union (or at least just before when James left for safety of France) Catholics have been treated like dirt. (Until more recent times)

Another thing which muddies up my thought:

Other ancestors of mine, quite a few of them, were Covenanters. By declaring the Church of Scotland should be free, like it's people...

Bah I'm still unsure...



posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 03:20 AM
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I am pretty certain that when Salmond 'came out of retirement' for this, it was made very clear that once the referendum has taken place Salmond 'retires' from politics again. I will dig around and see if I can find it.

Also, the only problem I have is that Salmond is the figure head for the 'yes' campaign. I explained why in my last post above.

Out of curiosity I would like to know where Kennedy stands on this.

As to the EU....well lets face it, at the moment it is a rather moot topic. I think that is a bit like 'putting the cart before the horse'. If the 'yes' vote wins and I sincerely hope they do, we then have to see if the remainder of the UK gets the vote as promised (haha) to stay or leave the EU. IF we do get that vote, and IF we do vote to leave, I don't think Scotland will bother to 're-apply'. HOWEVER I do think that the EU is an important part of whether Scotland win the 'yes' vote, as I think possibly most Scots will want to leave and that is the sting in the tail for the yes vote to win.

Rainbows
Jane



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