The tree of what knowledge?

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posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


I think I must have misinterpreted your original post to me. Its better to agree to disagree. I know I can learn much from you. No since arguing over anything. I am sure what we are both seeking, is the same thing, we just have different paths. I completely believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. As I am certain you do as well. So, as your sister, its way better to just love each other.
For a chunk of my life I would have died for my faith in the bible. But, its our faith in the Creator that actually matters, and I am fairly certain we agree on that.
Thank you for catching my perimeter error. I type fast, so sometimes if the spell check doesn't flash on a word, I miss it being a miss spell. But, hey no one is perfect.




posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by misskat1
 

OK, truce.
(PS the next series coming up is on the Old Testament criminal laws, which may provoke a degree of debate)



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


I am sure you will love my philosophy on that one. lol
Because I think there should be an old testament "city of refuge" for those people to run to, if they are lucky enough to get away from the mob of pissed off people, who are sick of their chit.
As well as a Wild People Refuge for those who, cant or don't want to live under society norms.
The letter of the law killeth, but the Spirit gives it life.



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


I do have a question however. I believe that in my life, everything happens for a reason. And I have a weird way of walking from one coincidence to another constantly. So, if on a spiritual level, everything does happen for a reason, do you think that maybe Adam and Eve were tempted on purpose? So, they would take that step of independent thinking? I mean, who leaves the cookie jar in the play pen?

Before they ate the fruit, they didn't know the difference between good and evil, so how could they have understood they were being evil?
How could we make a choice to live a good life, if there was no other choice?
I know your going to hate this, but those books I mentioned show how Adam and Eve were tempted over and over again. And it seemed to me that sometimes they interpreted things as temptation, that wasn't really temptation. In one chapter, Adam realized he was attracted to Eve in a take her to bed kinda way, and he was tempted by Satan to sleep with her, so he went to God and confessed he was having cozy feelings toward Eve, and God gave him permission to be with her.
But, I think they might have died childless, if Adam wasn't "tempted" with desire. I think he interpreted the natural attraction and the feelings in his body as temptation, but it wasn't. lol



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


You wanted to talk about the message in genesis. The bible version.

A roman emperor caused the bible to exist as it does today. Since there are books missing from the original collection of religious scriptures. I'd like to learn more about the missing books, on genesis mentioned here earlier.
You claimed them to be fictional.

I've learned a lot of things over the years, and the book mentioned on adam and eve, doesn't only completes, it's also compatible with the accumulated info, I've learned over the years. Surprisingly there is also some science suggesting into this direction.

What reasons do you have for claiming it sci fi ?



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 03:57 AM
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Sinter Klaas
A roman emperor caused the bible to exist as it does today.

No he did not. That is a myth invented on the internet, which has been refuted many times on ATS.
And Genesis is a Hebrew book, part of the Jewish scriptures. No Christian Emperor could have any control over the content of Jewish scriptures. The contents of the Old Testament are, by definition, the books which the Jews accept.


the book mentioned on adam and eve, doesn't only completes, it's also compatible with the accumulated info, I've learned over the years. Surprisingly there is also some science suggesting into this direction.
What reasons do you have for claiming it sci fi ?

You like that book because it fills in gaps in your information.
Exactly.
That is my reason for calling it fiction, because it was blatantly written to satisfy readers like yourself, who don't like gaps in the information and want them to be filled in.

Since this thread was written as an examination of the Genesis account, I don't need to defend my decision not to move beyond it to other accounts. They are not relevamt to my purpose. Keeping myself to the Genesis account is part of the definition of the thread.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 04:13 AM
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misskat1
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


I think I must have misinterpreted your original post to me. Its better to agree to disagree. I know I can learn much from you. No since arguing over anything. I am sure what we are both seeking, is the same thing, we just have different paths. I completely believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. As I am certain you do as well. So, as your sister, its way better to just love each other.
For a chunk of my life I would have died for my faith in the bible. But, its our faith in the Creator that actually matters, and I am fairly certain we agree on that.
Thank you for catching my perimeter error. I type fast, so sometimes if the spell check doesn't flash on a word, I miss it being a miss spell. But, hey no one is perfect.


Jesus was a great human being, no doubt.

Please keep in mind that you insult the soul of Jesus when you call him 'god'.

It is the same with Hindus calling 'Rama' god, as he was not. No human can be god.

All souls are alike and have same properties, even souls dwelling in animals and plants. No soul is special.

There is only one God who never takes birth, never sires children, and never takes a human or animal form.

The truth is there in every human, as every soul is capable of identifying truth. It is only due to illusion and false education that people forget the truth.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 04:30 AM
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misskat1
Before they ate the fruit, they didn't know the difference between good and evil, so how could they have understood they were being evil?

I naswered that question in advance in the OP.
As I said above, it's all about finding the real meaning of "knowing good and evil".
My argument is that "knowing good and evil" is not about knowing THAT there is a difference between them. It is about knowing WHERE there is a diference between them, deciding where the boundary line lies.
Before the Fall, they were accepting God's judgment about where the boundary line lay.
The Fall was the decision to make their own judgements instead. Taking the fruit is a very apt symbol of that change, because they had been accepting God's judgement that it was a bad thing, but now they were making their own judgement that it was a good thing.

As I said in the OP:

Good and evil; if they know good AND evil, side by side, that implies that they know them as distinct.
Their “knowledge” relates to the boundary line between them.
In fact it comes close to knowing good FROM evil.
So this will be the kind of knowledge that makes judgements on the rightness and wrongness of things, though it need not be limited to moral judgements.

That explains what is meant by the previous phrase, “You will be like God”.
They will be like God in that they “know good and evil”.
So this points to God as the one who determines what is right or wrong.
If they do this for themselves, they are imitating one of his features, and putting themselves in his place.

So that will be the point.
If they’re claiming a “knowledge of good and evil”, that means making their own decisions about these things, instead of depending on God’s judgement.


As for how far the Fall was "intended", I made a tentative suggestion about this in my second post;


The central theme of the Bible is that this is when things began going wrong.
There was a misalignment between our newly independent decision making and the will of God.
Would it have been better, then, for us to have remained as instinctive animals?
Would that have been more in keeping with God’s plans?
Or should the development of our conscious will be seen as a stage in our progress towards a future state in which our conscious decision-making has been re-aligned with God’s will? (Another version of the FELIX CULPA idea)


.
edit on 10-1-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 





No he did not. That is a myth invented on the internet, which has been refuted many times on ATS.
And Genesis is a Hebrew book, part of the Jewish scriptures. No Christian Emperor could have any control over the content of Jewish scriptures. The contents of the Old Testament are, by definition, the books which the Jews accept.


I'm sorry. I didn't want to include the OT too, only the NT. The emperor was not a Christian by the way. Not by heart.
I've posted an argument, that didn't fit with the Genesis story. What was I thinking...



You like that book because it fills in gaps in your information.
Exactly.
That is my reason for calling it fiction, because it was blatantly written to satisfy readers like yourself, who don't like gaps in the information and want them to be filled in.


Your arguments aren't good enough. The book does not fill in gaps. I've already filled these gaps, with other sources. The book is actually coming up with similar results. Unless you know for sure it's sci fi, to satisfy people. It's a BS argument.

If you don't want to discus it, that's fine with me. Just say so. Don't give bs arguments to back up that you think is fiction. You don't know. If you do, feel free to enlighten me.

I only asked a question. I wouldn't do that, if I only was interested in the other books, I would read them in that case.

So... Lets get back on topic Huh..
edit on 1/10/2014 by Sinter Klaas because: Editing...



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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Sinter Klaas
I've posted an argument, that didn't fit with the Genesis story. What was I thinking...

That wasn't quite what happened.
You were trying to argue me out of my declared intention to stick with Genesis, and I did not give way.
By all means let us keep to the topic of the thread, which is the interpretation of a story in Genesis.


edit on 10-1-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


I did not. I wanted to hear your reasons for claiming the other books, you didn't want to discuss, to be science fiction, written for people that want the gaps in the story filled.

I asked this, because I'd like to know about any evidence suggesting that they are what you said they were.
If I agree with the explanation, it would save me a lot of time reading.

I already read in earlier post you didn't to talk other topics then the genesis book of the bible.
I don't think it's to much to ask, why you think the other books are sci fi though. Your comments on the books, created my question, you know. You didn't have to write them.

edit on 1/10/2014 by Sinter Klaas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 08:15 PM
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I won't begin to pretend that I understand what actually happened in the Garden of Eden that day. But there are two trees, which I seem to be reading that people think there is one. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and the Tree of Life. Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and then were kicked from the garden before they could eat from the Tree of Life and live forever in their sin. That would have been bad for us. We needed death to have any chance of escaping our sin.

What I think may have happened, is that the fruit was really a metaphore. God created it as a test of our loyalty. The fruit on it doesn't matter, what matters is that man chose to disobey God and eat from it, and that act put them in a state of sin which we inherit to this day. That state of sin is what gave them knowledge of good and evil, because now they knew what it meant to be outside of God's will and they actually thought they could hide from Him.

So God banished us from the Garden, and Adam and Eve started a life on this planet. I also wonder if this Earthly plane of existence wasn't here before they sinned, and that's why we see a planet with a longer history than that told by the Bible. The Bible does say that Satan fell and took a third of Heaven with him. Maybe he took a few other human beings with him then as well, and what we have in the Bible is the history and story of Adam and Eve's fall and the generations that came from them, but maybe other humans had already turned their back on God and were banished to this planet. It's not really clear how many humans God created on that day, but theologins tend to think that the term Adam was used to describe a population of humans, not just a single man at the time of creation. After a specific human sinned, then he took the name Adam in the story, and the female human became Eve.

It's interesting to note that recently, a couple books relating NDEs have touched on subjects related to this. In Heaven is for Real, the child says he has seen both these trees growing in Heaven. This gives a little creedence to my theory that we were kicked out of Heaven, not removed from some garden that was here on Earth already. I don't think anyone will every find a gate on Earth wiht an angel standing and guarding it. In another NDE, a neuro surgeon related that God allows certain areas of sin to exist in the universe to keep free choice valid. There has to be some place to go to that is outside of God's will if there is truly to be free will. God wants his creations to love Him and all HIs other creations implicitly. If you want to play this game of sin, then you come here.

Just some thoughts and I offer no proof that could mean anything. I wait for the day when I'll know for sure.

But one thing that this train of thought leads to. If you want to follow God, think on what this may mean. When we die, you may go to Heaven to live with Him forever. If the tree is still in Heaven, then you will still have to make the same choices to serve and obey Him every day for eternity. The temptation will remain.

So chose now who you will serve, and be ready and happy for the chance to serve Him!



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


To "know" many believe is to understand and believe intellectually. We "know" that the earth is round.

To Know, capital K, is to experience. Experiential Knowledge is a whole different ballgame.



posted on Jan, 11 2014 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by MRSeeker
 

You are right, people do sometimes seem to confuse the two trees.
I have written a separate thread on the Tree of Life, where I suggest that they were already eating from it in the Garden, that the whole point of their residence in the Garden was that they should eat from the Tree of Life, and that the purpose of expelling them was to interrupt what they were already doing.
I too treat the fruit as metaphorical.
In fact it seems to me that the best way of correlating Adam and Eve with earlier generations is to regard them as representative figures symbolising God's relationship with the early human race.



edit on 11-1-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2014 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Good. The story of Adam and Eve is a fable. A fable is a made-up story that a wise man tells his followers to explain something in simple words a topic that is otherwise too difficult.

The true knowledge and true power are inter-related. A soul can get true knowledge only once liberated from cycles of life and death (or stops taking physical bodies). The seen world is called 'maya' in Sanskrit as it is an illusion created by God - by mixing His power in inanimate 'prakriti'. Knowledge of seen world is thus called 'maya' or illusion. Only the knowledge of souls (another dimension unseen by physical bodies) is true knowledge.

A liberated soul sees itself and others (including material world) as everything exists in its true form.





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