Old picture of Japanese Samurai

Thank God, Sam Colt, and our forefathers for guns and the second amendment. Thugs can now meet their match when oppressing armed citizens.

I just want to say thank you to everyone contributing to this thread.

I have picked up so much from the point I posted it to where we are now..

This is why I enjoy ATS.

reply to post by opethPA


I guess you can see that in this picture if you want to see it. But my initial reaction to seeing this photo is that they look like one of a million current tough guy/gangster photos you can find all over facebook.

seabhac-rua

Bushido is a relatively modern term. The concepts that Bushido was founded upon had their roots in Confucianism, Shinto and Zen Buddhism. Bushido was not some code imposed upon the samurai to stop them randomly chopping people's heads off. This is as skewed an opinion as the one held by people who think that all samurai were chivalrous Ben Kenobi types. The ideology, that eventually came to be known as what we call Bushido today, developed over centuries, and it's precepts permeated all stratas of Japanese society, not just the warrior class.
...

I have to disagree with you and I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

We can find a similar correlation to the truth about the samurai from their Western counterparts of Medieval times. Samurai were like the lords in Europe, under them were thousands upon thousands of soldiers, and under soldier were the craftmen, then farmers, then the rest of the people. The ancient Japanese had a class structure similar to that of their European counterparts. We all know that the knights/lords were also supposed to have a code of conduct as well called "the chivalric code". Let me actually excerpt from an external source a lot of people believe to make my point.

Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is the traditional code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood. Chivalry arose from an idealized German custom.[1] It was originally conceived of as an aristocratic warrior code — the term derives from the French term chevalerie, meaning horse soldiery[2] — involving, gallantry, and individual training and service to others. Over time its meaning has been refined to emphasise more ideals such as the knightly virtues of honour, courtly love, courtesy, and less martial aspects of the tradition.

The Knight's Code of Chivalry was a moral system that stated all knights should protect others who can not protect themselves, such as widows, children, and elders. All knights needed to have the strength and skills to fight wars in the Middle Ages; they not only had to be strong but they were also extremely disciplined and were expected to use their power to protect the weak and defenseless.[/suze]
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Yet we know that the truth is quite the opposite. Yes knights did show their Chivalry amongst other lords and ladies of the courts, but with the common men and women they were mostly cruel. Do you think that the hefty taxes that the commoners had to pay to the lords and the Kings was given always willingly when men and their families were going hungry? No, the knights and lords were in fact for the most part cruel with the common people. The same happened with the Samurai.

seabhac-rua
Also, one thing about the 'Ninja', there is no one source of information about the subject of Ninjitsu. I have heard multiple 'histories' of the origins of these infamous characters, all of them are different. What makes you think your version is correct?

Because I studied Ninjutsu and was a student of Sensei Juan Hombre Dopazo, who has been accepted under the protection of the different traditional Ryuha that to this day endure and still exist in Japan, and he is the only representative in Europe of the tradition of Koga. I was one of his students, and in total the loyal students under his tutelage were about 6, although thee were days that there were 12+ of us in the "gimnasio Embajadores" in Madrid, Spain back in the late 1980s. Back then Sensei Juan Hombre was teaching us Koga Ryu Ninjutsu.

Sensei Juan Hombre Dopazo taught me a lot about Ninjutsu and it's history, and he learned this history through people like Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi, among others who is the current Grandmaster of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, with it's oldest school being 1,000 years old. (Although to be honest they did have a disagreement on how Ninjutsu was being taught back then) Other people of note he studied and learned form were Master Tetsuya Higuchi, among others and Sensei Juan hombre even went so far as to learn as much of the lost knowledge about the Shinobi/Ninja as possible. That's when he met the Master of Kouka Ryu Ninjutsu and respected historian Shunichiro Yunoki. What I learned about the Shinobi/Ninja is directly from Sensei Juan Hombre Dopazo.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


The comparison between Japanese and European feudalism is frequently misrepresented, historians and authors who write about Japanese culture often use it to give their readers some idea of an occidental equivalent to the structure of medieval Japanese society. However, if you study both you will see that they were very different.

You are indeed qualified to mention ninja history it seems. I've studied Iaido in the past, another attendee at my dojo was a former student of the Yagyu Ryu school of swordsmanship whilst abroad, from him I was inspired to learn about that Ryu, I have read that their clan were masters of espionage in ancient times and what eventually became to be known as the Ninja were originally from their locale. But, like I said, I've heard so many different opinions about the subject of Ninjitsu, including from practitioners such as yourself, that I don't have one(an opinion) myself, except to say that there were probably many different examples of what we nowadays call Ninjas.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Of course there were differences between the Japanese and European social structures, but one thing didn't change, the Samurai were like the lords who commanded many soldiers and for the most part they were cruel. The Samurai were like low lords, and who in turn had other lords known as daimyo who had more power than the Samurai, the daimyo answered to the bakufu (shogan) who were like generals and the bakufu answered to the Emperor. The Samurai were also divided in ranks from the 6th and below and were part of the "Imperial bureaucrats" which had a total of 12th ranks, with the 1st rank being the advisor to the Emperor.

There were probably some Samurai that were not too strict and bad with the common people, but in general they were cruel with them. The common people feared the samurai for a reason.

Even in traditional Japanese history we know of uprisings from the commoners against Samurai and the daimyo because of this cruelty and the hefty taxes they were force to pay even when the common people were starving. if the samurai had not been so cruel there would not have been such uprisings amongst the common people in Japan. There were also rebellions of samurai against new imperial Japanese governments such as the Satsuma rebellion.

I just re-read the info to make sure everything I wrote was right, but the fact is that in the late 1980s Sensei Juan Hombre was teaching us Iga Ryu ninjutsu, his teachings of Koka/Koga Ryu Ninjutsu came later.

reply to post by brandiwine14


You have a lot of nerve (or don't know any better) than to call our fighting men 'COWARDS'? How can anyone give brandywine a star for making such a horrible remark?
Have you ever been in combat? Believe me, it is NOT cowards that goes behind enemy lines with as a sniper with a very good chance that once you make the shot you are lucky to get away alive!
Shame on you!

reply to post by brandiwine14

Tusks
Thank God, Sam Colt, and our forefathers for guns and the second amendment. Thugs can now meet their match when oppressing armed citizens.

the thugs are the ones Oppresing the citizens.

Guns have done the exact opposite of what you imagine. Once guns were involved, a few could defeat many..

meaning that the ELites with a few guns, have stomped over the masses..

That equalizer took away the power the masses had.

okamitengu

aLLeKs
If I look at the OPs photo and look in the faces, I can see the following emotions (just my opinions, from left to right):
- hate and eagerness
- sadness and reflectiveness
- determination
- silence and calmness
- pride, just pure pride

edit on 25-11-2013 by aLLeKs because: (no reason given)

when you try to read what someone elses face is saying from a single picture, you are in fact reflecting your own image onto that picture.

it takes more than one expression to be able to gauge a person. it takes a feeling and subtle microexpressions. it takes experience and understanding.

you cannot know anything from a single picture

the smaller man on the left has the "I'm not the one to mess with". look to him. He probably got grief for being small, but was a firecracker.

seabhac-rua

Because I studied Ninjutsu and was a student of Sensei Juan Hombre Dopazo, who has been accepted under the protection of the different traditional Ryuha that to this day endure and still exist in Japan, and he is the only representative in Europe of the tradition of Koga. I was one of his students, and in total the loyal students under his tutelage were about 6, although thee were days that there were 12+ of us in the "gimnasio Embajadores" in Madrid, Spain back in the late 1980s. Back then Sensei Juan Hombre was teaching us Koga Ryu Ninjutsu.

Sensei Juan Hombre Dopazo taught me a lot about Ninjutsu and it's history, and he learned this history through people like Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi, among others who is the current Grandmaster of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, with it's oldest school being 1,000 years old. (Although to be honest they did have a disagreement on how Ninjutsu was being taught back then) Other people of note he studied and learned form were Master Tetsuya Higuchi, among others and Sensei Juan hombre even went so far as to learn as much of the lost knowledge about the Shinobi/Ninja as possible. That's when he met the Master of Kouka Ryu Ninjutsu and respected historian Shunichiro Yunoki. What I learned about the Shinobi/Ninja is directly from Sensei Juan Hombre Dopazo.

since koga ryuha is not recognised by the japanese kobudo association what makes you believe any of it?
now personally i have had experienced with several ryuha. none of which exist, and each one tell their own story of origins. and i think they are all correct.

hatsumisensei is the only one to have "authenticated" his menkyo kaiden. and even that may be because he has massive connections inside the officialdom of japanese martial arts.

assuming that any ninja ever tells the truth.

ElectricUniverse
I just re-read the info to make sure everything I wrote was right, but the fact is that in the late 1980s Sensei Juan Hombre was teaching us Iga Ryu ninjutsu, his teachings of Koka/Koga Ryu Ninjutsu came later.

juan hombre

more


some dispute as to his validity.
however this disproves nothing. only that some of those who claim skills may not be all they say they are. including hatsumi sensei

okamitengu

since koga ryuha is not recognised by the japanese kobudo association what makes you believe any of it?
now personally i have had experienced with several ryuha. none of which exist, and each one tell their own story of origins. and i think they are all correct.

hatsumisensei is the only one to have "authenticated" his menkyo kaiden. and even that may be because he has massive connections inside the officialdom of japanese martial arts.

assuming that any ninja ever tells the truth.

What "Japanese Kobudo Association"? Are you talking about the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai, or the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai? Those are the 2 prestigious classical Japanese Martial Arts organizations. And since when is the Koga Ryu not recognized as a Ryuha?

Of the over 25 Shinobi Ryuha the Iga Ryu and the Koga Ryu were the most prominent ones.

A Brief History of Ninjutsu



(Extracts of an interview with Saito Soke, 16th Grandmaster Iga Ryu Ninjutsu)

There were more than 25 ninjutsu ryuha, and among them the most prominent styles were Iga Ryu and Koga Ryu. Later came Kishu Ryu and this came from Iga/Koga Ryu, and was merely a branch of these styles. Initially there were only 2 major ryuha and they were Iga Ryu and Koga Ryu. The next styles were Koyo Ryu and Ninko Ryu, and these came from the middle parts of the rugged mountain area of Honshu. The content of the documents of Koyo Ryu and Ninko Ryu were simplistic in comparison to documents of the Iga Ryu and Koga Ryu. The techniques of the Koyo Ryu and Ninko Ryu were often very simple and are still techniques used by the Yamabushi (they are still linked to the Yamabushi Heiho). If the styles of the Iga Ryu and Koga Ryu are examined closely there are only very subtle differences between them. Iga Ryu and Koga Ryu are infact the same style and are of perfect similarity, even differences in the kanji characters are minimal.
...

www.igaryu.com...

brandiwine14
Great find!

Yes, just look at their faces their stillness and yet so much can be seen. Samurai warriors fought with conviction, honor, and discipline. Nothing like the drone remote controlled fighting we have now. Or the hiding behind the scope of a weapon. Cowards are all we have left now.

Again what a great picture, something worthy to look at and wonder about for awhile.

Are you dense? Have you been in combat with rifle? Have you watched your brothers get blown up? Have you endured running a thousand meters with a pack on while under fire by the enemy to close and engage with them? Have you heard the sonic boom of each and every gun shot, every explosive, while keeping your composure and staying exposed just long enough to get off some rounds but not long enough for the enemy to shoot you?

War is war is war. Hiding behind the scope of a weapon makes you a coward? This must be the most ignorant post i've ever read. Believe it or not, war is still dirty, still violent, and you don't die instantly when you get hit by a bullet. You hemmorage blood from your lungs while your brothers maintain calm and discipline while trying to save your life.

War isn't call of duty of battlefield 4 where you respawn and you can turn the sounds down while you sit in a chair and drink moutain dew. You have to aim your weapon, make every round count, while taking enemy fire. Please do that, and tell me again how all we have left is cowards. Until then, shut it.

brandiwine14
Great find!

Yes, just look at their faces their stillness and yet so much can be seen. Samurai warriors fought with conviction, honor, and discipline. Nothing like the drone remote controlled fighting we have now. Or the hiding behind the scope of a weapon. Cowards are all we have left now.

Again what a great picture, something worthy to look at and wonder about for awhile.

Your a damn fool if you think they wouldn't have used drones instead of Samurais if they had the technology. The same country had people fly planes into ships, remember? Much honor, such discipline. Wow. Using your most advanced fighters, is the equivalent to using superior technology. Saying no skill projecting force across an ocean is pretty ignorant also

Amazing photo thanks for sharing.

reply to post by opethPA



Many thanks for sharing, fascinating photo

okamitengu
...
assuming that any ninja ever tells the truth.

Thank you for the attempt to insult me. I'll take it as a sign of what kind of person you are and of your own ignorance.

ElectricUniverse

okamitengu
...
assuming that any ninja ever tells the truth.

Thank you for the attempt to insult me. I'll take it as a sign of what kind of person you are and of your own ignorance.

exactly the self important statement i would expect.