Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Faith No More - Believe Everything You Hear

page: 1
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 01:39 PM
link   
This is a thought I've had for awhile, but it is a bit difficult to articulate so bear with me..
Perhaps it would be useful in illustrating my point, if you have an idea of the "religious environment" of my upbringing..

I wasn't raised with "religion" as being something that was mandatory or even seen positively, in my family.

-My mother is "spiritual" (she has a general idea of how she sees things work, but she doesn't subscribe to one religion, and was raised Unitarian) She always liked hearing about what my sister and I thought about the world, and talked WITH us about it, in discussion without a "right" or "wrong" view to strive for.. (when we were children mind you.. very rarely do adults seem to ASK a child anything besides "what do YOU want for Christmas..?")

-My father always says "the roof of my church is blue-sky" and, while interested in the occult and collected some Aleister Crowley, Carlos Castaneda, and other esoteric stuff.. He was more interested in pantheism and always encouraged me to decide for myself what seemed true in the world of religions. His wife was Greek Orthodox and was VERY devout, but never preached or criticized what my sister and I, said, believed, or anything like that. I always thought that this was a very peculiar and rare trait for a Christian, and hence she was probably the ONLY Christian that really got me thinking about her system of belief and ENJOYING going to Church with her (though, I think I mostly only went for the music
)

Now for my point!

Firstly, the one aspect of a religious person's mentality that has REALLY confused me, probably since going to hokey churches with friends at about 3rd or 4th grade (they spoke in tongues..
), is that Christians worship a god that needs PRAISE and BELIEF.. but "he" is also supposedly omniscient and omnipotent.. haha.
Just in using their own religion as a source of reasoning, WHY would this sort of "God" NEED anything from us..?

I think it's directly related to that word "belief"..
This word (contrary to popular usage) actually describes a skeptical point-of-view, but phrased in a positive way..

For example, I might say "I believe in Evolution" but I wouldn't say "I believe in Gravity"..

This is because, while there is observable evidence that could be interpreted as pointing towards a phenomenon termed Evolution, Evolution is not something that we can DIRECTLY experience without interpretation..

Gravity, however, is a part of the nature of EVERYTHING and is fundamental to structure and causality.. It requires no participation or contemplation to experience it, and the word "gravity" describes a phenomenon that would still exist in a world without language or life, while "Evolution" describes a theory that, while it might describe a very real trend or phenomenon, still only describes a collection of ideas that require belief for them to have form and to be experienced. Belief is for the agnostic mind who is building upon theories which may point to something we can experience, but cannot be experienced by a non-intellectual mind..

Now, to discuss Faith.

In the example above, I say that one must BELIEVE in Evolution (or, so I don't appear to be picking on evolution, a paradigm like Quantum Mechanics) for it to be a useful theory in your life..

but Gravity does not require belief.. it demands FAITH.

Before a child finds out "the truth" about Santa Claus, for example, they don't really NEED to say "I believe in Santa Claus" because they have FAITH that he exists.. They might speak to other children about Santa, but they aren't evangelical because they ASSUME that Santa is simply a part of "what happens" at that time of year. They are much more likely to speak about Santa in the same way that they would speak about a family member or a friend.. Santa is REAL in their world..

However, when another child implies that Santa DOESN'T exist, we tend to see a reaction similar to a Christian (or dogmatic scientists..) faced with the same confrontation..
anger, denial, and personal insults..
anything to protect that "belief system" (B.S.) which has been given the responsibility of explaining-away most of the mysteries of the world and if threatened... the dreaded Unknown might come knocking at the door..

The same goes for how MOST Christians think about God..

They tend to "believe" in God, "believe" He has a plan for all of us, and "believe" that Jesus (yanno.. that peace-loving martyr for Love..) is going to come back to Earth, punish the un-faithful, and basically undo the creation..

..what?
..why..?

I don't want to reiterate the centuries and centuries worth of criticisms against the Christian and Jewish (and the others') churches, but this where their "system of belief" really starts to unravel..

The God that they describe is supposed to be something that is no different than my Gravity-example above (in fact, Gravity would be a part, or expression, of this God concept..) but Christians and Jews tend to "believe" in God, as in my Evolution-example, because they THINK that this is the correct stance to take, and will be punished if they don't hold this belief..

starting to see what i'm saying..?

I think most of the problems in Religion have come with the widespread feeling amongst followers, that they OUGHT to believe in one God or another, rather than having faith that there is *something* out there, which some people call God, but does not need anything in terms of "belief" and "lip-service" to make anything happen, just as Gravity does not seem to be affected by persuasion or our opinions about it..

Just as we say that a person "holds a belief", so too are the religious attempted to "hold onto God", which is equivalent to trying to see the back of your own head..
Basically the conspiracy is keeping the masses confused (using Double-Speak and paradox wherever possible) so they are uncertain and wavering in their Faith, so they feel they must LEARN to Believe, while stagnating all other learning which conflicts with their religious BELIEFS..

There are far too many layers of this conspiracy to take into account in this thread, but I think that THE fundamental problem in every system of religion or paradigm is this mistaking of Belief, for Faith.
edit on 24-11-2013 by HyphenSt1 because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-11-2013 by HyphenSt1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 01:58 PM
link   
A Star to Ya!

Nicely written!

Had to say that, will let this sink in some.

You did not add something that has bothered me since I went to Church for the Music.

Do most christens know the actually fact on How it started? More people, Countries were invaded and killed just because they would not accept Christ as their Savor! Actually if you put every other Sin commited by people, That rank as #1 on the list most Killed!

Even now if you do not accept Christ, some would like to downside your thinking! Even go as far saying God said this and that yet not knowing this small hidden Fact! Explains why Christ went to the poorest people, hated the Church and how they actually changed what He was trying to say!

Thats how he got on that Cross in the first place! The very own Church that uses His words now!



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 02:48 PM
link   
reply to post by infoseeker26754
 



Countries were invaded and killed just because they would not accept Christ as their Savor!

To use evil means to malign the Good is an utterly cunning and ingenious work of operation.

Nothing has damaged the Way, Truth and Life more than the evil distortion committed in the Name of that which is Holy.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 03:12 PM
link   
reply to post by HyphenSt1
 


Thanks for an interesting and different narrative.

Merely some comments . . . I'm not . . . that up to a full fledged response to all your points.

1. I do NOT believe that GOD NEEDS our worship.

I believe that HE KNOWS that GIVEN that HE IS THE SOURCE

of life, joy, fulfillment, pleasure, freedom etc . . .

HE KNOWS that when folks worship HIM FROM THE HEART as best as they can and know how

THAT RENDERS THEM LESS LIKELY to abandon Him and

--His joy for them;
--His Salvation for them;
--His pleasures for them;
--His Freedom for them;
--His fulfillment for them;

It's like a parent with 2 twin teen sons . . . one is lovingly submitted and obedient IN LOVING almost or literal GENUINE ADORATION to the father.

The father feels quite comfortable in trusting that son with car keys; more personal financial decisions; later hours; more freedom; etc.

The other twin is rebellious, contrary, self-destructive; destructive to the family; to the father; to property.

The father CANNOT begin to trust the rebellious son with much of anything.

The rest of your points . . . the Biblical narrative has been verified by a long list of factors and data points in spite of what the contrarian characters hereon assert.

And regardless of the person of the author--a former atheist/agnostic investigative reporter--Lee Strobel--his THE CASE FOR THE REAL JESUS has a LOT of solid info about the reliability of the Biblical text as well as about the historical Jesus of Scripture. It's worth a read and pondering.

.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 03:17 PM
link   
reply to post by HyphenSt1
 


God will only help those that truly want help.

If you truly want help, you need to prove it.

A lot of people don't want help.

You want God to help you, then you must prove that you are worth helping.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 03:21 PM
link   
reply to post by PrimeLight
 


Did you actually look into it?

Don't get me wrong, some have found the path quite good and works for them in their own way. Now if one would like to read the last chapter of the Bible, you come to a better understanding of why Gods wrath shall come. How did the apposel know this to be a fact? And why write it down as a warning to all seeking?

Actually God has been here many times on Earth; just look at our past. One could take Rev and see it over time happening at a smaller level to help people understand something. Nope, people still will not listen, some have though. Love itself is the 2 edge Sword!

When you Truely follow something no matter what. One must go to the beginning of it all! If you do not, you lose everything it was based upon. Yes, it was cold, cruel and hateful back in the day when it first started. To some all you can do is ask for forgiveness and make it a better way for others to follow. Just don't hide it from them.

It has nothing to do with God, Christ nor the Devil. It goes to a highter understanding of just what the Holy Spirit wanted to say to us all in the first place. My Children, you have been given a Power to use wisely, Trust that this is so. I have placed you higher them My Own Angels in the Kingdom of Heaven!

Trust in That alone, for one day, I shall return to see what you actually did with the Power I gave you!

Somehow I think He is going to be Very Mad! In the old testament, He was a Vengfull God, so somehow the New Testament changed Him into an All Caring God! All the real Truth is hidden at The Church under ground!

You should be Greatful that He actually sent us a New Pope that now works for God and Not the Church itself! If I had a Prayer, it would be for Him to protect our new Pope!



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 03:47 PM
link   
reply to post by infoseeker26754
 


Thank you, I appreciate your reply! I do agree that wars (and just about every bizarre, sudden act of butchery or sadism) has been attributed to being "the work of God" but I also attribute this to my point that these people feel that they OUGHT to conform to, and believe-in this system of thought, and hence the more "outgoing" folks, will project that OUGHT onto others who seem to differ in opinion..

However, I cannot even disagree that the works of the "worst of the worst" people in history were in FACT following the word of God, because they said so..
There are many examples of very GOOD and SINCERE people in history, yes.. and yes, I do agree that these are also "The works of God" but, nothing really seems to be "deviant" or "forbidden" as far as God is concerned, does it?

This is because it seems to me (I believe) that every intelligent body (and otherwise) very literally IS what has been described as "God" in every religion..
So when one religious zealot says "God doesn't favor these people, and hence they deserve the suffering they are given", and this "they" happens to include the New Ager hippie who believes "God is Love" even as he is being condemned.. they are both correct.
They just happen to only be speaking for the INNER-GOD that is inside of them, seeing the world through their eyes, filtered through their memories, here to represent exactly what they are are not anyone or anything else.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 04:12 PM
link   
reply to post by HyphenSt1
 


Here is some thing to think about....

Church teaches that you are better than everyone .

"We may not be perfect but we're better than you since WE believe in Jesus".

Tv teaches to have the MOST sex and look the MOST attractive.

Governments say people should believe THEIR country is BEST.

ALL better than you attitudes.

Humility is like darkness, it is silence and not interesting as the glory from the light of selfrighteousness



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 04:24 PM
link   
reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Thank you for your sincere reply and time to consider what I've said. while you did not say this, I hope I do not come off as generalizing about people too much, or seem to be opposed to seeking metaphysical truth..

however, I think that your point:


It's like a parent with 2 twin teen sons . . . one is lovingly submitted and obedient IN LOVING almost or literal GENUINE ADORATION to the father.

The other twin is rebellious, contrary, self-destructive; destructive to the family; to the father; to property


is entirely dependent on the individual's concept of "father" and two sons with seemingly "opposite" demeanors..

Your depiction of a father's relationship with these sons, may be accurate and relevant to YOUR experience (and indeed many others), and hence it speaks to you in a real and deep way..

..but this is part of the reason why i began my thread with describing the spiritual nature of my relationship with my Mother and Father..

MY father would have suspected the "loving and devoted" sibling of being a schmoozer and easily-led (which he tended to look-down upon..) and probably would NOT trust such a son..
However, being the contrary, self-destructive type at certain parts of his life, my father would have related to this son and appreciated his inquisitiveness and criticism, and would then engage in REFINING the balance between inquisitiveness and faith in the nature of the universe..

As for the biblical "narrative", there is NO way to truly "verify" anything about it, and while i'm sure you think that is a bold statement, let me ask you:

Hypothetically, what evidence could be presented to convince you that there was NEVER a Jesus..

I'm guessing that the answer doesn't come very quickly, if at all..

it was never meant to be taken as a literal, historic record..

In fact, I think that trying to verify the bible with history (EVEN if they could "prove" that every word is TRUE), this is used as a means of wasting time and energy, distracting from the pursuit and understanding of what is being communicated IN the bible, instead of focusing on committing to the "right" religion..
it's MYTHOLOGY, and just as in the millenniums upon millenniums before Christ, there were hundreds of systems of mythology that had MUCH in common with the "biblical narrative", but the faithful followers were CONSCIOUS that it was mythology and use the symbolism to arrive and ways of seeing things, that are not possible when writing in words as I am now..
People of history KNEW that Truth could not be "told" to someone, as if to open up their brain and dump in it there..
they were quite versed in the concept that one could only POINT to the truth with hopes that those who were looking, might just notice it..

Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about how most Christians read the words of Jesus, and these are obviously the words and acts of someone who claimed to BE God (and hence spoke for God), challenged authority, criticized the churches, and in every way was "contrary" to a herd-like mentality.. and yet "Christians" treat anyone who exhibits any of these traits, with condemnation and suspicion..!?

..Is it like some sick, ongoing joke, that Christians essentially "crucify" those who embody everything THE Christ talked about..? Not to mention the crucifix being the most common symbol OF Christ.. (cuz yeah.. when we was being tortured and "tested" THIS was when he was saying his wisest words... NOT. I can not be sarcastic enough about the stupidity of this part of Christianity..)

..hmm..

edit on 24-11-2013 by HyphenSt1 because: wooooords..



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 04:59 PM
link   
reply to post by HyphenSt1
 


Yes, it seems like more and more people these days have less "faith" in religion in general. Not so much because they don't "believe" there is a God or that there is somewhere we go after death (although there are a minority that if they can't see something, then it doesn't exist. They must see "proof"), but instead I think most get defensive regarding religion because of the hypocrisy that it has been for 1000's of years. Let me state for the record that I have a strong dislike for all religions.

Religion has been responsible for so many wars, killing, torture, etc. all in an effort for control of the masses, power, and money. But even up to present day the continued secrecy and cover-up over child abuse issues and alike is all contrary to what they preach is expected of us. You are right to criticize and be cautious of religion. But don't confuse religion with spirituality, and don't let its offensive nature prevent you from seeing what is true. I can't say one way or another whether or not religion was initially started by somebody holy, or with the best of intentions. But at this point that is irrelevant. Religions have been manipulated, miscommunicated, mistranslated, and as someone once said "bastardized" by man for many years. But perhaps we shouldn't rush to "throw out the baby with the bath water".

Sometimes the thought of a God or of a Heaven seems difficult to just accept as the truth. But doesn't blindly accepting the opposite also seem difficult considering what we do KNOW? Don't you find it difficult to believe that we are like ants - born, run around in circles for awhile building something and then die, all for nothing? Does the fact that we have such a high level of consciousness, are capable of feeling such strong emotions like love, passion, compassion, anger and hate mean nothing? There definitely is a bit of the 'fear factor', where some want to believe there is a God & Heaven because the thought of it all being over when the lights go out is scary. But I think most people have something deep down in their 'gut' that tells them that there is more to our existence. But without knowledge or 'proof', and only being able to tap into what knowledge is in their brain, they find it difficult to know what to believe. Some grasp onto 'faith' as you say and preach to others aggressively all in an effort to convince themselves. While others attack those with the 'faith' also in an effort to somehow find the truth. Then there is the rest in the middle that seek meaning to their lives and look for some kind of proof or a sign.

Think about it, really think about it. Even at this time with so many advancements in technology (we have sent not 1 but 2 robots to Mars, doctors can operate on a patient while 1000's of miles away, and scientists have recreated the 'big bang' in a lab environment, etc.), yet surgeons, scientists, experts all know that our hearts and brains operate on electrical impulses, but not a single one can tell you how. Doesn't that alone speak volumes?? The amount of money and time they have spent trying to figure it out is immense, yet that haven't got the slightest clue. The energy that creates those electrical impulses is your soul. Our souls ARE energy, and that energy lives on. Your purpose - everyone's purpose - is the pursuit of enlightenment (I know, that sounds....'religious'), and to become the best person or should I say best soul that you can while here. The life you experience is intended, and is full of challenges and tests. Hopefully you are blessed enough to often experience love, happiness, compassion, but you will also be challenged with sadness, anger, hate, fear, and pain. It is how your soul adapts to and manages its response to those challenges that will have an affect on your soul, and either bring you closer to enlightenment or set you up for further 'challenges'. It actually is quite simple. Unfortunately, our society has buggered things up and now forces both parents to work most hours just to get by. Providing little time to do what we are meant to do which is spend time with family and friends, contribute positively to our communities, and try to further each of our own enlightenment.

I apologize for the lengthy response. I fear I might come off as some religious extremist or nut (no offense to those of you that might be religious nuts, lol), or maybe repeating the term enlightenment will create the image of a Buddhist monk. But I am neither of those (although much of what Buddhism preaches is right and from what I have seen brings it closest to the truth than other religions/belief systems.). Instead, I am just some guy, father of 3, happily married, self employed, with good friends, etc. But for some inexplicable reason I seem to know certain things. Its not from my upbringing, its not because of any life altering events that affected me, and its not because I fear anything. and no its not because I hear voices in my head (I almost wish I did). I just know what I am saying is the way it is. I wish I was able to communicate more effectively, or perhaps word things in a way that was maybe less arrogant. But hopefully at the very least I have offered a different perspective for you to consider. I'm new to this site, so not quite sure what to expect as far as responses. Either way, I have meant no offense and will not take any regardless of what is said.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 05:24 PM
link   
reply to post by infoseeker26754
 




Gods wrath shall come. How did the apposel know this to be a fact? And why write it down as a warning to all seeking?

Prophecies can be self fulfilled by the very same entities called 'gods' that inspired the maligning of Holy texts (whom also bear knowledge of the cyclical universal gearings).

You said it correctly when you stated 'gods' wrath. Research into the Jewish history of their polytheist influenced traditions that eventually melded their gods and lords into the Sumerian god 'Yahweh' and 'Jehovah' entity of the old testament-- whom was an utter hypocritical beast utterly unalike Jesus in all which He addressed and Willed--though His Words have been tainted to 'connect' Him to old devil's workings. Did you know the 'holy' ark of the covenant was a weapon of war?

The writings attributed to 'Paul' have served also as an effectively divisive damaging tool in maligning the True Christ path of service in love with much contradiction and distortion added to Gospel Truths to utterly taint the original Christ movement. Many of those originally active as part of the true faith in His Good Spirit in following and spreading of the Light Truth were hunted down and persecuted cruelly, writings confiscated- whilst of course the 'Paulian' attributed doctines were allowed 'free reign' strangely to set up all their churches with multi-region 'establishment' with an allowed sanctioning from the ruling authorities. One really should ask pertinent questions upon such matters.

That which is Holy in the Son and the Father that Sent Him did not ever bear a destructive wrath in His Life Path. This is religious programming of the highest order and the entities attached to this are strong.



You should be Greatful that He actually sent us a New Pope that now works for God and Not the Church itself! If I had a Prayer, it would be for Him to protect our new Pope!

The Vatican is a 'mainline' tool of evil. You can also further research their sordid past (if you haven't already) into money laundering for criminals, protecting nazis, protecting paedophiles, gathering vast wealth for private corporate investments etc, etc. Feel free though to place your faith and trust in this criminal corporate enterprise and their voted in 'leaders'. They are serving their god no doubt, but certainly not in the Original precepts of our Holy Creation and the Son in their crude palaces of ritual and gold.

Pray about this to the Holy Creator if you choose. The 'wrath' is of the 'gods' and their agents, whom are warring factions vying for control of souls and earth's resources like old, whereas our Rescuing of being is Borne of the Good Spirit in Christ out of this predominantly negative led dominion, all dependent upon our chosen alignment, for their is great spiritual power connected to our soul and will of choosing.
edit on 24-11-2013 by PrimeLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 05:33 PM
link   
reply to post by HyphenSt1
 


Certainly your reality in such matters is not mine.

IN terms of Jesus. I cannot imagine anything real, true etc. remotely even beginning to convince me that Jesus did NOT come in the flesh as the Son of God and the Son of man about 2,000 years ago. {goofed in my original sentence construction}

He's been in my life, in me, and I in Him for a long time. He's proven true so repeatedly, it's easy to trust His Words in print and to me directly.

In terms of the text being proven true, valid and historical . . . I've given a good source. I'm not that interested ATT in haggling on ATS about such issues. Those issues tend to bring out the worst in those on the other side and I've seen more than sufficient amounts of that.

In terms of folks twisting Jesus' words. He predicted that. He noted that in the END TIMES, folks would put authentic believers to death "thinking that by doing so, they did God a service." We have been warned.

The sum of it is wrapped up well in the truth that:

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus The Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

All else is details.

edit on 24/11/2013 by BO XIAN because: correct sentence structure and wording



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 05:40 PM
link   
See how eazy it is to actually start a war over God and what he said and she said thinking it must be true! Even had one go as far and called my boss saying I was being rude to him while he was talking to me about Christ!

What part of no not interested did he not get? And to call my boss like I really care, don't like it I can go work somewhere else! What I did say! Now that my boss knew of what was going on instead of his story of me being rude, had to actually laugh at it!

Christ never intended anybody to follow Him; just to live by some understanding that it did not have to be this way in your Life. You can't go spreading the word and yet commit sin doing it! I know some who for 6 days are a pain in the ___ and thinking come Sunday all you have to do is ask for forgiveness!

It does not work that way! Everyday of your life; if you are being Spiritual, it becomes a part of you. Some do have a Blessing and see how it is and enjoy talking to you about it yet do not make a big deal out of it. Most know it is their Life and what you do with it has its effects. So being said. God and Satan can sit back and watch the show.

Both of them really are the same person. God being your Higher Self while Satan being your Ego. Yet their is no actually prof either one exists at all! Faith is nothing more then knowing that their is a Highter Reason to all of this. It has to do with each and every one of us, Ourselves!

It is You that is living, so it is your life to do what you will. Law is law only on some other level christ talked about! here we talk like we know everything that God actually said yet only some really know so share it with us. Yet most never actually sid down with the info and work with it themselves, by themselves, alone. Just follow the crowd and do the same as they do.

I have nothing adgence RELG, it has helped me to see things another way in my life. Yet it also has brought things to my attention most would not even consider since in the end it comes down to yourself! You are a part of some Vassness, always have been! Call it what you want, it does not matter. What matters is what you Do about it in your life and how it effect people in it. Its so over rated, most do not know that just one sentance to someone can go on to affect many down the line!

Bring this post up will cause many to be so upset, they will respond with hate and nothing more. Yet while their off line it is still there with them in the day to day working! You could not hide fron Truth if it was .ooooooo1 % of it really. Thats why people have so many problems, turn to using pills, drinking and the like.

How many do actually want to know their bad side? Look themselves in the mirror and say crap, now what? The Spiritual path is the hardest path to walk! It will bite you if your doing it just to look good or playing around using it to your advantage! Its the difference in having a Soul or losing it completely. Actually your Soul loses its Energy, no longer having any more you go and take it from another.

If you have not noticed, when you do come to find your Own Light, everybodys around? Light attracts everything, some come to learn how you found this and the rest are their to steal it from you! Or keep others in finding this info
it is that messed up!

Yet when you use your Light to give Kindness to them Soul Suckers, they will run away or as Christ would say, learn to accept the Light as their own! Everyone has a chance at redemtion really. never forget that! One trick out there is thinking its to Late for me! No only you still will have to pay the pipper; Karma and work changing your ways everyday! Some have even tried to use this clause to gain Power! Sorry people it will not work that way and now you will have to start at the very bottom again!

So don't walk down that path untill you are sure you want to learn something about yourself period! You will not like what you will find at the beginning. Yet after you have found yourself worthly, done gone through all the trials and Test; yep their are them too! You will know thyself, know their is a God and you were always a part of the greater Plan!

Oh, I do not even know what the Greater Plan is! Just do not take all of it lightly and do go have some fun from time to time! You are still Human you know!



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 06:06 PM
link   

PrimeLight
reply to post by infoseeker26754
 




Gods wrath shall come. How did the apposel know this to be a fact? And why write it down as a warning to all seeking?

Prophecies can be self fulfilled by the very same entities called 'gods' that inspired the maligning of Holy texts (whom also bear knowledge of the cyclical universal gearings).

You said it correctly when you stated 'gods' wrath. Research into the Jewish history of their polytheist influenced traditions that eventually melded their gods and lords into the Sumerian god 'Yahweh' and 'Jehovah' entity of the old testament-- whom was an utter hypocritical beast utterly unalike Jesus in all which He addressed and Willed--though His Words have been tainted to 'connect' Him to old devil's workings. Did you know the 'holy' ark of the covenant was a weapon of war?

The writings attributed to 'Paul' have served also as an effectively divisive damaging tool in maligning the True Christ path of service in love with much contradiction and distortion added to Gospel Truths to utterly taint the original Christ movement. Many of those originally active as part of the true faith of Good Spirit following and spreading of the Light Truth were hunted down and persecuted cruelly, writings confiscated, whilst of course the 'Paulian' attributed doctines were allowed 'free reign' strangely to set up all their churches with multi-region 'establishment' with an allowed sanctioning from the ruling authorities--hmmm, one really should ask pertinent questions upon THOSE matters.

That which is Holy in the Son and the Father that Sent Him did not ever bear a destructive wrath in His Life Path. This is religious programming of the highest order and the entities attached to this are strong.



You should be Greatful that He actually sent us a New Pope that now works for God and Not the Church itself! If I had a Prayer, it would be for Him to protect our new Pope!

The Vatican is a 'mainline' tool of evil. You can also further research their sordid past (if you haven't already) into money laundering for criminals, protecting nazis, protecting paedophiles, gathering vast wealth for private corporate investments etc, etc. Feel free though to place your faith and trust in this criminal corporate enterprise and their voted in 'leaders'. They are serving their god no doubt, but certainly not in the Original precepts of Holy Father of the Son in their crude palaces of ritual and gold.

Pray about this to the Holy Creator if you choose. The 'wrath' is of the 'gods' and their agents, whom are warring factions vying for control of souls and earth's resources like old, whereas our Rescuing of being is Borne of the Good Spirit in Christ out of this predominantly negative led dominion, all dependent upon our chosen alignment, for their is great spiritual power connected to our soul and will of choosing.
edit on 24-11-2013 by PrimeLight because: (no reason given)


I actually did know this! It is being held in the US as a test though for us really! Kinda like pandora Box to say the least! And they Had to Open it! Back in the day it was protected because of its Power, Law was no one should open IT! But they do anyway, would have been best if we would have sent it out to space! No one needs that kinda Power since it really has no Power; it is an amplyer really! Someday someone will come along and move it to another place after the box closeses itself once again. You might not know this but their is a group of people out there still among us who allow it to move from place to place! They are the only ones who can actually close the Box itself.

Hate to say this but the New Pope shall be hanged just like Christ did! It was the Churches last Test to see; Opps have to stop there or I'm in Trouble! No not by others! You would not understand. lets see if I can refrase that, nope! can say now how he has changes the tune so much, all you actually do is see the lies!

Thats why most of the real Truths are still held under the Church Itself! If that would so happen to get out thing would change in this world and not be so cold hearted! Actually their is no such thing as Power itself, it is just a form of Energy being used the wrong way.

When I do Pray, I Pray that this Earth and the Life on it does not have to go down the road with us. That is the only one that I have left!



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 06:53 PM
link   

infoseeker26754
Christ never intended anybody to follow Him;


Oh REALLY?

Then why did HE SAY



Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
KJV




Matthew 8:22
But Jesus told him, “Follow me now. Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead.” NLT




Matthew 10:38
If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine.





Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow me. NLT


To the rich man who had asked what he should do:



Matthew 19:21
Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” NLT




John 8:12
[ Jesus, the Light of the World ] Jesus spoke to the people once more and said, “I am the light of the world. If you follow me, you won’t have to walk in darkness, because you will have the light that leads to life.” NLT




John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
NLT




John 12:26
Anyone who wants to be my disciple must follow me, because my servants must be where I am. And the Father will honor anyone who serves me. NLT


I don't know who taught you about what Jesus said and did . . . but you might ask for a refund.

There WILL BE a final exam. I hope and pray you do better on it than your . . . post . . . indicates you might.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 07:25 PM
link   
reply to post by infoseeker26754
 

The reason I mentioned the ark (which was also connected to the commandments) was this; Why would a 'holy' entity ever deliver amongst 'loved' children advanced weapons of war for destruction? It's laws also did not appear to apply to the entities delivering it amongst it's worshiping in fear 'subjects' (going by several accounts of 'commanded' wholesale slaughter and more depraved acts of cruelty).

This is not the Good Spirit of operation. It is the following as Jesus told the 'chosen' people serving this god....
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44 KJV

The Bible is wisely studied like a chess board and one is best served very carefully discerning with diligence the black squares from the white, all weaved together in both old and new testaments--written in such a way that can terrify the faithful to dare question it's content. What a carefully crafted enchantment, though it contains the Light of Truth within to attract those 'sheep' whose souls can only be more powerfully 'pricked' by it's Truth within. It had to be like that to draw us re-legion mankind to a flame to begin with. The same applies with every 'mainline' religious text.

Please note also that visions, dreams and so forth given to 'ordained' messengers can also be induced by these so called 'gods'. This is a prison planet and their ways are more advanced and clever than ours to easily disseminate.



When I do Pray, I Pray that this Earth and the Life on it does not have to go down the road with us. That is the only one that I have left!

The earth will be purified as it has throughout the ages, therefore it is the destination of souls that counts essentially. Earth was made to inhabit life. Plan_ET....The extraterrestrial Plan it is and will continue as such thereafter.
edit on 24-11-2013 by PrimeLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 08:07 PM
link   
reply to post by BO XIAN
 



IN terms of Jesus. I cannot imagine anything real, true etc. remotely even beginning to convince me that Jesus did NOT come in the flesh as the Son of God and the Son of man about 2,000 years ago.


This is exactly my point.. It's based on something that is entirely outside of direct experience..
To not be able to imagine ANYTHING to test this, is not faith but belief..
I can try to believe anything I want, but Gravity will endure and pervade everything I do, so I see it as beneficial to have faith in gravity so I might be able to collaborate with It (driving, flying, walking, and just doing my best to avoid accident where possible..)

I don't think the original Jesus was talking about a God who had a nature that was ANY different from that of Gravity, and hence was good to be aware of, in order to COLLABORATE, not live in fear of..

The problem with quoting the bible (and yes I have read the bible, once straight through, and off-and-on throughout the years, usually when practicing bibliomancy) is:

1.) there's far too many subtle variations in translations.

2.) most translations, as good as they can be, can NOT communicate the original Hebrew or Greek because English is not entirely compatible

3.) the context of the bible's original form was more in the form of a book like "Everything You Know is Wrong" or other compilations of essays (gospels: the good news) instead of what it has become..
Indeed, when one treats the words of the Bible as HOLY, they can get results and the writings DO seem to have been written with the intention that the reader gets profound information out of it.. but this is ALL that seems to be evident about the "intentions" of the writers of the books of the bible (and ESPECIALLY evident when looking at the books that "didn't make it" into the bible.. the apocryphal books are perhaps too obvious for the comforts of the founders of most churches..)

SO, instead of quoting, i'm merely doing the opposite and going with discussing my general impressions of Christianity in particular, because I think it is the most contorted and perhaps harmful manifestation of what this religious knowledge has become.



He's been in my life, in me, and I in Him for a long time. He's proven true so repeatedly, it's easy to trust His Words in print and to me directly.


Though it may seem like I am condemning "Christianity" itself, I reassure you that I am not.. If that Presence is in your life in a very REAL way, and it happens that it is most fitting to call it "Christ" or "God" or "The Trinity" or "Brahman" or "Buddha".. I am probably one of the only non-Christians that will tell you: More power to you.
But that is NOT the type of Christian who makes up the majority, nor who I was focusing on in my main-post. By saying that "He" has proven true and that "He" enables you to hear and speak with the Universe (my preferred term), then this is an example of Faith, and direct-experience..
It is not a theory that must be learned and interpreted.. it just IS and any attempts at theorizing seems to defeat the purpose. Words can be given, but these words are also ever-changing and have seasons.. "The Presence" is one of the few absolutes, and exists outside of continuity and fashions..

But in the same breath, I can also say I am NOT a Christian and, while I do agree with many of the "red-letters" where it is supposed to be Christ himself speaking.. I don't even feel like it is a maze worth exploring. As with any book, I encourage anyone to get from it, what they can.. but DON'T become transfixed and in Awe..

I think that is exactly what is warned against when it is said "one should not hold false idols" because every time we think that we've "figured it out" that means that we have stopped and become idle in our experiencing of The Universe..
I've never felt obligated to commit to any one belief system, party, group, scene or genre, and I have truly gotten to a place where it is very difficult to speak with any one person in my life about the entirety of my "discoveries" and revelations, because most people are not versed in more than two or three religions..

if something is truly false and malevolent, isn't it worth investigation and understanding before condemnation..?
It seems like any other method leads to self-deceptions, neurotic thoughts, and an ever-increasing need to "purify" the world and.. look where that's gotten those folks..



In terms of folks twisting Jesus' words. He predicted that. He noted that in the END TIMES, folks would put authentic believers to death "thinking that by doing so, they did God a service." We have been warned.


Well yeah.. but that was being done in Jesus' apparent lifetime and long before as well! It's not just HIS words, nor are his words even anything NEW.. I've said for a long time that I swear Jesus had to have travelled to India during those "missing" 30 or so years, because SO many of his teachings seem to be Hindu and Buddhist ideas, but with a middle-eastern packaging..
Not that originality counts for much, but my point is that it gets very confusing and limiting when one sees ONE MAN as being the ONE true hero in history who said anything worth hearing..
Forget seeing the bible as the ONE book with good-intentions (and that's also debatable..) and suddenly the world doesn't seem so dim and grim..
there are gospels everywhere.. and even the books/films/albums that DON'T intend to be read that way, can be used as such because they too are projected from "The Source" and hence are only corrupt when seen as such.

*one more thing*




Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus The Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The rest is details


again: like Gravity.

The only true way to interpret that statement is that it is inevitable to bow and confess because it IS the way of things..
to "Bow and Confess that Jesus Christ is the King of Kings" is usually interpreted literally, as if to imply "even the kings of the land submit to Jesus because of his holiness" but I don't see it that way..

For such a bold statement to be un-debatable, I think what is being said is that, in bowing, our very existence is an act demonstrating the Presence of God. Then, in confessing, I believe it is being implied that every word has no choice but to be the word of Christ and hence God which demonstrates how the only TRUE God is indivisible and hence all words are OF Him (yes, even those "bad" words..) and the only reason why "morality" seems to come up a lot, along with these ideas, is that "moral" choices tend to be those that follow The Golden Rule and much more obvious in demonstrating the wonder of the Universe.

It's not about reward and punishment, outside of the immediate Now.
edit on 24-11-2013 by HyphenSt1 because: out of control underlining!



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 08:22 PM
link   
reply to post by HyphenSt1
 


Thanks for your kind and thoughtful reply.

Yeah . . . I think I agree that GOD'S NATURE

is similar to that of GRAVITY--it just IS

THE GREAT "I AM."

etc.

Thanks for your ?respect? of my perspective.

I respect your tone and attitude a lot, too.

Yes, I'm much more a literalist.

Those betting on the literal meaning of verses in the Bible have won hands down many hundreds of times, if not thousands over the last century or two.

And, I DO believe that "every knee shall bow, every tongue confess" SHALL BE literal in at least key ways.

I used to bemusedly quip . . . do "ET's" have knees and tongues?

May the Great I AM lead you ever closer to Himself.

Thanks for the dialogue.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 08:34 PM
link   

PrimeLight
reply to post by infoseeker26754
 

The reason I mentioned the ark (which was also connected to the commandments) was this; Why would a 'holy' entity ever deliver unto 'loved' children advanced weapons of war for destruction? It's laws also did not appear to apply to the entities delivering it amongst it's worshiping in fear 'subjects' (going by several accounts of 'commanded' wholesale slaughter and more depraved acts of cruelty).


This also illustrates my point above.. The God that gave us the powers of destruction and war, is the same God that gives us Gravity, DNA, Black Holes, Electricity, Earthquakes, Rain Forests, Wind Currents.. I mean, ALL of these things very literally demonstrate a common nature, easily summed up as God..

But this is where "people" (or characters) like Jesus come in..

If we can learn to COMMUNICATE with The Universe (God) in a very real way, we may collaborate and then make the world into what we want it to be..

Or perhaps I should say that we have no choice BUT to make the world into what we want it to be and hence it is useful to learn to collaborate with our environment, so we may CONTINUE to learn and grow.. not just "discover the truth" and be.. I dunno..

Done..?
Dead...?
In "Heaven"..........?

Just as mainstream Buddhism speaks of Enlightenment being a sort of "destination" or "state of achievement", The Christians have an even more vague concept of a "goal" they are striving for, although there is great pressure to continue striving..



Please note also that visions, dreams and so forth given to 'ordained' messengers can also be induced by these so called 'gods'. This is a prison planet and their ways are more advanced and clever than ours to easily disseminate.


as with all communication, it is usually two-way. If one is desiring to learn and live in a somehow "better" and "happier" way, they will seek that which brings things and say "ah ha! all I need to do is This" and this desire communicates with the Universe to gather resources, whether spiritual or otherwise..
But when one seems to be getting where they couldn't live a more mundane life.. they are "called" and The Universe tells (or suggests) a Role for them to play which ends the stagnancy..

And again, the way you define things really DOES affect the way you see the world, so if you define the planet as a prison, it most definitely will be..
a Hell..? certainly.

but personally, I tend to see it as a school at the best of times, and a zoo at the worst of times, but at any rate, I sincerely try to see the world, first and foremost.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 08:40 PM
link   
reply to post by HyphenSt1
 


BTW, initially from the title of this thread . . . I thought that maybe it was asserting a satirical truism . . .

That the ALTERNATIVE

to living with FAITH

was to believe in the absurdity that EVERYTHING WAS TRUE.

LOL.






top topics



 
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join