Israel calls Iran nuclear deal a 'historic mistake'

reply to post by ItDepends


Saudis are there in Iraq, Syria etc. -- just look at the amount of bloodshed there.

Saudis are funding Muslim seminaries in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal etc. that are breeding grounds for terrorists.

If you are looking for references, I sure can provide some on the Internet. But these you can find yourself as well.

The 9/11 incident involving Saudi nationals is well known. Though Saudi government denies its involvement with Al Qaida, the political philosophy of Saudis is not very different from Al Qaida.

reply to post by Gary29

The Jews have been in the land of Israel for more than 3000yrs.

So have the Arabs. What's your point?

I hate to be the one to tell you this but the North American land mass is much older than 3000 yrs....it wasn't called the US of course, but then 3000 years ago the area that is now modern Israel was not called Israel either.

reply to post by Gary29

The Arabs rejected the deal and attacked Israel

This is a complete and utter lie and I'm sick to death of hearing it. As soon as the Zionists got their state in 1947 they started a program of ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population. They had a army of 40,000 armed men that were let loose on innocent people. The Palestinians had no army, no militia...just as they have none today. The Zionists forced people from their homes by the hundreds of thousands and have denied the Palestinians the right to return to their lands and homes.....homes that were given to Israelis. But don't take my word for it....here is a fantastic video I think you should watch....from the mouth of a very brave and honourable man who just happens to be Jewish.



If the player won't work here is the link...please watch it.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Logarock

But then Iran's leaders shouldn't go around making statements about wiping another nation off the face of the earth.

I have no idea why this myth is still being spread...that was NOT WHAT HE SAID. To wit....

Then, specialists such as Juan Cole of the University of Michigan and Arash Norouzi of the Mossadegh Project pointed out that the original statement in Persian did not say that Israel should be wiped from the map, but instead that it would collapse.
Cole said this week that in the 1980s Khomeini gave a speech in which he said in Persian “Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” This means, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.” But then anonymous wire service translators rendered Khomeini as saying that Israel “must be wiped off the face of the map,” which Cole and Nourouzi say is inaccurate.

www.washingtonpost.com... _blog.html

I hope this is the last time I have to hear this drivel.

deadcalm
reply to post by Gary29

 

The Jews have been in the land of Israel for more than 3000yrs.

So have the Arabs. What's your point?

I hate to be the one to tell you this but the North American land mass is much older than 3000 yrs....it wasn't called the US of course, but then 3000 years ago the area that is now modern Israel was not called Israel either.

Small populations of Arabs may have lived in the area of Israel 3 millennium ago, but it wasn't until the 8th century and the violent spread of Islam that they became a majority.

According to historical tradition the Kingdom of Israel was founded in the 11th century BC.

deadcalm
reply to post by Gary29

 

The Arabs rejected the deal and attacked Israel

This is a complete and utter lie and I'm sick to death of hearing it. As soon as the Zionists got their state in 1947 they started a program of ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population. They had a army of 40,000 armed men that were let loose on innocent people. The Palestinians had no army, no militia...just as they have none today. The Zionists forced people from their homes by the hundreds of thousands and have denied the Palestinians the right to return to their lands and homes.....homes that were given to Israelis. But don't take my word for it....here is a fantastic video I think you should watch....from the mouth of a very brave and honourable man who just happens to be Jewish.

If the player won't work here is the link...please watch it.

www.youtube.com...

edit on 28-11-2013 by deadcalm because: Linked video as player isn't working

edit on 28-11-2013 by deadcalm because: (no reason given)

"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemned to change places with them: they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity.

Mahmoud Abbas, President of the State of Palestine.

"Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return."

Haled Al-Azm Prime Minister of Syria 1948-49

“We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down.”

Former Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said

1,670,000 Arabs are citizens if Israel. That's more than a fifth of the population. If the "Zionists" really did ethnically cleanse Israel of Arabs, they didn't do a very good job.

reply to post by Gary29


Since you didn't address a single point that was made in the video....which I highly doubt you watched, perhaps a few quotes from the day from the Zionists themselves should clear up what their intentions were from the start.....

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- Moshe Dayan, April 1969, Ha'aretz; quoted in Edward Said, 'Zionism from the Standpoint of Its Victims', Social Text, Volume 1, 1979, 7-58.


"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988


"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.


Hope this makes it clear for you. Thanks for the comment!

reply to post by deadcalm


And still the fact remains that more than 1.6million Arabs, 20%+ of the population of Israel remain. Your claims of ethnic cleansing don't stand up to scrutiny.

Gary29

deadcalm
reply to post by Gary29

 

The Jews have been in the land of Israel for more than 3000yrs.

So have the Arabs. What's your point?

I hate to be the one to tell you this but the North American land mass is much older than 3000 yrs....it wasn't called the US of course, but then 3000 years ago the area that is now modern Israel was not called Israel either.

Small populations of Arabs may have lived in the area of Israel 3 millennium ago, but it wasn't until the 8th century and the violent spread of Islam that they became a majority.

According to historical tradition the Kingdom of Israel was founded in the 11th century BC.

So what if there was a kingdom of Israel in the 11th century BC. That gives them no right to the land. So if a Sumerian were to show up the Israelis would of course pack up and move seeing how it belonged to them before the Jews claimed the land. And if you call the spread of Islam violent then you need to study up on the if you don't want to make a slave of it then kill it policy that mass murderer David enforced.

Gary29
reply to post by deadcalm

 

And still the fact remains that more than 1.6million Arabs, 20%+ of the population of Israel remain. Your claims of ethnic cleansing don't stand up to scrutiny.

Sounds like you need to learn the definition of the term ethnic cleansing.

Ethnic cleansing is a the process or policy of eliminating unwanted ethnic or religious groups by deportation, forcible displacement, mass murder, or by threats of such acts, with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity, religion, culture, and history. Ethnic cleansing usually involves attempts to remove physical and cultural evidence of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction of homes, social centers, farms, and infrastructure, and by the desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and places of worship.

This is being done not only to the Muslims but to Christians as well.

reply to post by buster2010


I think the discussion is drifting from the nuclear deal.

There is an issue of Israel vs Arabs, but the discussion here is about sanctions on Iran due to its nuclear program.

The simple thing is that sanctions were put due to certain apprehensions about Iran's nuclear program. Seizing Iran's money or stopping Iran's exports are extra-ordinary methods and such things are done only in wartime.

So Iran has made some compromises and West has reduced some restrictions.

Why Israel makes a hue and cry about this?

reply to post by GargIndia

The simple thing is that sanctions were put due to certain apprehensions about Iran's nuclear program. Seizing Iran's money or stopping Iran's exports are extra-ordinary methods and such things are done only in wartime.

Apprehensions that were never proven the Iran is trying to get a bomb lie has been told for decades.

We are not at war with Iran so the unwarranted sanctions need to stop.

Why Israel makes a hue and cry about this?

Because Israel wants to be the main power in the ME. But after the butt whipping they received from Lebanon in 06 showed them just how much of a joke their military has become. Then Israel woke up and thought why get our people killed when stupid Americans are willing to send their people to die for Israel.

And still the fact remains that more than 1.6million Arabs, 20%+ of the population of Israel remain. Your claims of ethnic cleansing don't stand up to scrutiny.

reply to post by Gary29


Yes, and the Arabs that do still live in Israel are treated as second class citizens.

As many as 100 Palestinian villages in Israel, many of which pre-date the founding of the state, are not recognized by the Israeli government, and are not listed on maps and receive no services (water, electricity, sanitation, roads, etc.) from the government. More than 70,000 Palestinians live in these unrecognized villages. Meanwhile, hundreds of new Jewish towns have been established on lands confiscated from Palestinians.

Government resources, meanwhile, are disproportionately directed to Jews and not to Arabs, one factor in causing the Palestinians of Israel to suffer the lowest living standards in Israeli society by all economic indicators. Human Rights Watch has compiled an extensive study of Israel's policy of "separate, not equal" schools for Palestinian children, finding that "Government-run Arab schools are a world apart from government-run Jewish schools. In virtually every respect, Palestinian Arab children get an education inferior to that of Jewish children, and their relatively poor performance in school reflects this."

imeu.net...

According to the wording of the university’s pollsters, however, “about 80% of the public supports extending Israeli sovereignty to the territories of Judea and Samaria,” biblical terms associated with the West Bank.

www.timesofisrael.com...

buster2010
reply to post by GargIndia

 

The simple thing is that sanctions were put due to certain apprehensions about Iran's nuclear program. Seizing Iran's money or stopping Iran's exports are extra-ordinary methods and such things are done only in wartime.

Apprehensions that were never proven the Iran is trying to get a bomb lie has been told for decades.

We are not at war with Iran so the unwarranted sanctions need to stop.

Why Israel makes a hue and cry about this?

Because Israel wants to be the main power in the ME. But after the butt whipping they received from Lebanon in 06 showed them just how much of a joke their military has become. Then Israel woke up and thought why get our people killed when stupid Americans are willing to send their people to die for Israel.

edit on 30-11-2013 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)

"Butt-Whipping"? You are seriously deluded.

"We did not think that there was a 1% chance that the kidnapping would lead to a war of this scale and magnitude," Sheikh Nasrallah said.

"Now you ask me if this was 11 July and there was a 1% chance that the kidnapping would lead to a war like the one that has taken place, would you go ahead with the kidnapping?

"I would say no, definitely not, for humanitarian, moral, social, security, military and political reasons.

Mother and child outside ruined building
Many thousands have been left homeless by the offensive
"Neither I, Hezbollah, prisoners in Israeli jails and nor the families of the prisoners would accept it."

Hezzbollah Leader Hassan Nasrallah.

Does that sound like Hezzbollah gave Israel a "Butt Whipping"?

Up to and including the war in 2006 Hezbollah launched more than 4000 rockets into Israel. Since 2006 the few Hezbollah rockets that have been launched resulted in hasty and hysterical announcements from Nasrallah that they were a mistake.

Does that sound like Hezzbollah gave Israel a "Butt Whipping"?

So Iran has made some compromises and West has reduced some restrictions. Why Israel makes a hue and cry about this?

That is my stance as well. No one really knows what prompted the compromise however most people see no reason not to run with this and see how it progresses.

One of the problems is it's hard to get independent analysis on how badly the sanctions hurt the Iranian people-and how they will respond if, and when, things improve economically.

reply to post by spooky24


The international system works in a certain way. There are treaties and UN etc.

The act of putting economic sanctions on Iran that are quite sweeping is an act of war in reality.

There has to be a valid and serious reason for such sanctions. You cannot put this stuff just because somebody disagrees with you.

Iran has not attacked any country so far. And running nuclear reactors and enriching uranium cannot be reasons for sanctions.

So the only reason was 'suspected intention' to build a bomb. If there is more to it, the sanctioning authority must declare the full reasons.

Things cannot be arbitrary, otherwise it will be law of the jungle.

reply to post by OneFreeMan

Congratulations on making the single most idiotic post I've ever seen on the ATS.

I could pick your post to pieces, word by word, but I really can't be bothered.....If your are so naïve as to believe any of that rubbish, mere facts are unlikely to sway you from your lunatic delusions.