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Secretary of Defense Hagel: U.S. 'deeply concerned' with China air defense map

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posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by IamTheManWithThePlan
 


The Senkaku Islands have been Japanese territory for many years now. No one else was interested in them until the late 1960s when a mineral survey came out showing that they are sitting on large pockets of minerals, and suddenly both China and Taiwan laid claim to them. Prior to that no one was even remotely interested in taking them from Japan.




posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


What you say is very true, and I'm not an idiot, I know why the Chinese want those islands.
I'm just saying that under international law, the Japanese have no exclusive right to them.
They only took them after WWII, and (as I said previously) they were always disputed.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by IamTheManWithThePlan
 


No, they didn't actually. They annexed then in 1895, after surveys showed no sign of Chinese control, and turned them into some fishing villages, with a processing plant. They were operated until the early 1940s, when they failed. After WWII they were under US control, and were turned back over to Japan in the 1970s.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 09:53 AM
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Zaphod58
 


No, they didn't actually. They annexed then in 1895, after surveys showed no sign of Chinese control, and turned them into some fishing villages, with a processing plant. They were operated until the early 1940s, when they failed. After WWII they were under US control, and were turned back over to Japan in the 1970s.


Yes sorry, I should've explained myself better.
True, Imperial Japan annexed those islands in 1895, but they also annexed Taiwan and Korea.
And 'surveys showed no sign of Chinese control' is disputable, since it was done by Japan.
So, again, from what I've read: Based on international law, Japan does NOT have exclusive right over those territories.

On a side note, Japan also has disputes about some territories with most (if not all) of its neighbors, but that's a different discussion altogether.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 



I personally know that the US has been selling raw resources to china, so has every other country...china now has built entire cities with no one to live in them because Chinese jobs don't pay the average worker enough money to live in them, that what the Chinese government should be working on.


I've looked into the Chinese Ghost Cities a bit and it has absolutely nothing to do with Chinese having the money to pay a Western style rent or mortgage payment to live in them. If Beijing wanted their ghost cities occupied, they have 4 x's the U.S. population and state control/power to simply relocate the necessary numbers and assign them to live there.

I just wanted to clarify the Ghost cities have a fair number of people perplexed as to exact purpose or thinking, given how complete and functional they are in the oddest of places around the world. Economics has little or nothing to do with that little mystery, at least in the traditional sense, IMO.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 11:06 AM
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deadcalm
reply to post by METACOMET
 


As far as I'm concerned the Chinese have every right to self defense. The US has been aggresively trying to deny China the raw resources that it requires to function and grow. The difference between the US and China's strategic doctrine...is China's is one of defense and the US is one of "Full Spectrum Dominance".

As far as the relationship between China and Japan....bear in mind the Japanese killed an estimated 20 MILLION Chinese during WW2 in horrific fashion....the Chinese have not forgotten this.



Last time I check the Chi-coms have a billion people and plenty of room for them. Why don't they try to buy the land or resources like everyone else does? If they go this route then they are no better than the the English empire of the 1700's and everyone will promptly put them back in their place for it. If they want this land so much, as an American I say we need to take the pit-bull off the chain and let Japan whoop some Chi-com areses. In a few years the Japanese will have nukes and the military might to highhandedly stomp the Chi-coms just as they did in WW2.

That is probably not needed though. If we had a Regan or a real leader in the White House China would have already been put in its place. Since China is also pissing off Russia, Vietnam, The Philippines and India I think Putin will put them in their place before we have to.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 11:18 AM
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Britguy

namehere

Britguy

Why not? After all, Israel does so without any repercussions and the US just destroys entire countries that it sees as being a possible threat, not necessarily a military one, but a possible financial one at some point.
It's also China's backyard, not the USA's!


what does this have to do with isreal, the U.S or our supposed hypocrisy?


Have you been living in a box or are you really that dumb that you have not noticed that Israel steals the land of others at gunpoint on a regular basis,


given)


Your an Idiot if you think that Israel is anything but Jewish land. The Brits formed Trans Jordan after WW2 and messed the whole area up. Palestine was a REGION in biblical times!! That region included all of Jewish Israel, Jordan, Most of Iraq and parts of Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Egypt.

Go to Israel and see how many ancient Jewish sites there are. Hundreds, a hell of a lot older than anything Islamic or Arab. Older by a long shot. It was the Arabs who stole the land from the Jewish Israelis if you would check your historical facts. Just because the Jewish people took their land back does not mean they stole anything.

Last time I checked the Arabs have more than enough land that they either do not use or just turn into a turd hole. The Arabs are just Jealous because the Jews made the land prosperous after the Arabs were kicked out, just as God had promised. You lose!!



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 11:27 AM
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I say split it in half. Let's see some sharing for once.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 11:39 AM
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Patriotsrevenge
Your an Idiot if you think that Israel is anything but Jewish land. The Brits formed Trans Jordan after WW2 and messed the whole area up. Palestine was a REGION in biblical times!! That region included all of Jewish Israel, Jordan, Most of Iraq and parts of Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Egypt.

Go to Israel and see how many ancient Jewish sites there are. Hundreds, a hell of a lot older than anything Islamic or Arab. Older by a long shot. It was the Arabs who stole the land from the Jewish Israelis if you would check your historical facts. Just because the Jewish people took their land back does not mean they stole anything.

Last time I checked the Arabs have more than enough land that they either do not use or just turn into a turd hole. The Arabs are just Jealous because the Jews made the land prosperous after the Arabs were kicked out, just as God had promised. You lose!!


Wow, and you have the NERVE to call other people idiots?!
Ancient Jewish sites, eh? That's your argument?! So the land belongs to the Jews, eh?
The Palestinians that lived there for thousands of years, and that Israel is stealing land from, killing them and their wives and children, and burning or bulldozing their houses in the process, are merely a minor point in the great scheme of things. Collateral damage, so to say! And they call you guys the only democracy in the Middle East?! An apartheid state, more like it!
But wait, by that analogy - what about the Jews that live in the States or in Europe? Do they deserve to be there, or do the same rules not apply to the Jews. Are you guys the Übermensch?! You know, you sure do learn from your enemies...



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by IamTheManWithThePlan
 


Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

More and more of the "who has the right" nonsense

It's a dispute... the word has a definition, you go to a table, you try to resolve it peaceably if that fails, the country with the best buddy with the Trillion dollar a year military gets it.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 11:55 AM
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penninja
reply to post by IamTheManWithThePlan
 


Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

More and more of the "who has the right" nonsense

It's a dispute... the word has a definition, you go to a table, you try to resolve it peaceably if that fails, the country with the best buddy with the Trillion dollar a year military gets it.


Quoted for truth.
Bullies do good in life. So do their friends. Well, up to a certain point.
Karma is a bitch, and all that



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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Why don't they try to buy the land or resources like everyone else does?
reply to post by Patriotsrevenge
 


They do. China invests heavily in resources all over the world. They put 100's of billions of dollars to help Libya develop their oil reserves....the US invasion basically cut them off from that major investment. However the US just invades and then US corporations divvy up the resources...see Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya. It makes me sick the level of hypocrisy in the US...it's disgusting.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by deadcalm
 


But it's not hypocrisy for China to lay claim to islands hundreds of miles away from their territory, and shoot at anyone else that may have a better claim to them, right? That's self defense.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by deadcalm
 


So it's ok for China to claim other people's territory in the name of self defense?


The US have as their main priority to act in the best interest of The US. Why cant China do the same?
Why does it look emoral when China does it?



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


Because it's kinda ridiculous to sit here and say that it's pure hypocrisy for the US to do something, while lauding another country for doing the same thing.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 07:09 PM
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MysterX

Zaphod58
reply to post by deadcalm
 


So it's ok for China to claim other people's territory in the name of self defense?


Why not...the Israelis do it ALL the time and the world hardly blinks.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.



So Japan should accept china taking there islands because Isreal does it? You make absolutely no sense and have a very childish outlook of the world. This isnt a school yard and just because one person does something has never made it right. People steal and kill but according to you its ok because other people do it.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 07:11 PM
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deadcalm
reply to post by METACOMET
 


As far as I'm concerned the Chinese have every right to self defense. The US has been aggresively trying to deny China the raw resources that it requires to function and grow. The difference between the US and China's strategic doctrine...is China's is one of defense and the US is one of "Full Spectrum Dominance".

As far as the relationship between China and Japan....bear in mind the Japanese killed an estimated 20 MILLION Chinese during WW2 in horrific fashion....the Chinese have not forgotten this.



That is something people really need to understand, because the modern "image" of the Japanese is totally the opposite of who they were as a nation a short number of decades ago. Japan was, quite literally, an evil empire that makes the current known atrocities of the Chinese pale in comparison.

When it comes to China vs. Japan, I always side with China, because they deserve a lot of leeway from the Japanese. This is still current history, WWII wasn't that long ago, to expect the Chinese to forgive in forget in such a short period of time isn't fair. Americans still bitch about British rule, and that was hundreds of years ago, and we won anyway. It's still in living memory for many Chinese.

Add in the fact that the US uses Japan as a puppet in that region, and "morally" speaking I think China is totally in the right. Not only does Japan represent a recent occupier and violent oppressor, but it also represents US and western influences.

Although I don't know if it's fair to say China's only goal is defense, it's really anybody's guess on what their real long term goals are. Their end goal could very well be "Full Spectrum Dominance" as you put it, we don't really know. Although I would agree there is NO question about the US's desire for total power and dominance.

As for the resources, I find it funny that when the US gobbles up copies amounts of resources, we are the bad guy. When China does it, they are just trying to improve their country. And it's a fact China's waste and pollution issues far outshine those of anything the US has done is recent history.
edit on 24-11-2013 by James1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 07:16 PM
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john452
Is Japan in any position to make the decision on how to deal with this independently or will it have to abide by the US decision on how to deal with this? I fear a too weak a response will make China bolder and the US is too far detached from the situation to do what might be necessary to nip this in the bud and avoid a larger more damaging war down the road. Japan should have been allowed to re-arm years ago so they could be in a better position to determine their own destiny than they are today.


Japan is already playing pushover for the US on the government secrecy issue, their government is just as impotent against US influence as most of our "allies" and "friends" Really more like "kidnapped and abused victims" not friends or allies.
edit on 24-11-2013 by James1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 07:19 PM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by IamTheManWithThePlan
 


No, they didn't actually. They annexed then in 1895, after surveys showed no sign of Chinese control, and turned them into some fishing villages, with a processing plant. They were operated until the early 1940s, when they failed. After WWII they were under US control, and were turned back over to Japan in the 1970s.


Funny how Japan was given back former "territory" after their actions in WWII, yet Germany still lost ancient territory with far more claim than a few fishing village ruins.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 07:24 PM
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namehere

Britguy

Why not? After all, Israel does so without any repercussions and the US just destroys entire countries that it sees as being a possible threat, not necessarily a military one, but a possible financial one at some point.
It's also China's backyard, not the USA's!


what does this have to do with isreal, the U.S or our supposed hypocrisy? china being aggressive and claiming the territorial waters and land of other nations is it's own matter and could lead to a much greater war than iraq or afghanistan ever was. do you expect china to be any better than us or more right in their actions just because they aren't america?
china isn't some benevolent saintly nation that will save or protect you.
will you keep harping on their greatness when japan, taiwan, vietnam, malaysia or the phillipines is invaded by them or they get invaded by them and millions die? because a thing like this will bring us a step closer to a great south pacific war of their own making.


It's because it's a perfect comparison to make, that's why.

Israel steals land in name of self defense, the US has NO problem.

China "steals" land (less cut and dry than Israel) and the US has a hissy fit.

There is a big difference between what is "right' and what is "best for your country"

All world governments need to be honest with themselves and the people and make that distinction. Stealing land isn't right for Israel to do, but it IS in the best interest of their country. You can't blame someone for doing what's in the best interest of their country, but you can blame hypocrites that have different sets of rules on what's right and wrong depending on the nations involved.



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