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Exactly..some people cannot produce good works, they are disabled, etc..
So I guess it can be both..faith and/or works.
If Paul's teachings were wrong they wouldn't be in the Bible.
OptimusSubprime
If Paul's teachings were wrong they wouldn't be in the Bible. See 2 Timothy 3:16-17 .... Every word in the Bible is God-breathed and preserved by the Holy Spirit.
OptimusSubprime
Works are not required for salvation.
... GRACE. God's Grace is a free gift to mankind.
wildtimes
reply to post by OptimusSubprime
If Paul's teachings were wrong they wouldn't be in the Bible.
*clears throat*
*wipes hands on pants*
WHAT? By what rules????
Holy Moly.
3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by OptimusSubprime
So basically what you're saying is that Paul's words are from God because Paul says so? Come on! That's not even fair and you know it.
You do realize that Paul's words were not considered "scripture" until nearly 300 years later at the Council of Nicaea right? Paul was talking about OT scripture because that was the only scripture available at the time anyways, so he wasn't talking about himself in the first place.
Circular logic isn't sound logic.
wildtimes
reply to post by OptimusSubprime
If Paul's teachings were wrong they wouldn't be in the Bible.
*clears throat*
*wipes hands on pants*
WHAT? By what rules????
Holy Moly.
So basically what you're saying is that Paul's words are from God because Paul says so? Come on! That's not even fair and you know it.
Acts 9
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Acts 22
9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Acts 26
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
OptimusSubprime
wildtimes
reply to post by OptimusSubprime
If Paul's teachings were wrong they wouldn't be in the Bible.
*clears throat*
*wipes hands on pants*
WHAT? By what rules????
Holy Moly.
By God's rules (see the verse that I quoted). Now I do realize that you may say that I am making a circular argument, and to someone who does not believe in God or at least God in the context of the Bible, it is an impossible conversation.
3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ghostfacekilah00
Which version of his conversion do you believe though?
Acts 9
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Acts 22
9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Acts 26
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
So did the men who were with Paul see the light but not hear the voice or did they hear the voice but not see the light?
Did only Paul fall to the ground while the others stood there or did all of them fall to the ground?
One man wrote all three accounts, Luke, so you have to wonder why one man gave three different versions of the same event.
Usually liars can't keep their story straight.edit on 24-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
Now as far as faith and being saved by works. do you think that one is saved, if only by faith even if he does evil works?
Akragon
reply to post by WarminIndy
Now as far as faith and being saved by works. do you think that one is saved, if only by faith even if he does evil works?
I've already stated my personal belief on being saved on the first page my friend
ALL will be Saved from "Death"
IF you take a look at that thread I go more into detail on the subject...
Faith in God is an amazing thing... but do you actually believe someone that has NO faith in God, yet does his best in life to be a good person will not be "saved"? This person is not doing good works because they know God will be happy... they do them for the sake of being a good person...because they know its right... God does not exist to this person... but do you actually believe he is condemned and God will toss him in hell because of his lack of faith? Is that merciful or loving?
Think of the Poor soul who's had nothing but hardship in his life... has had absolutely no breaks in life... the world has beaten him down and has no faith in anything?
Are they saved?
Lets ask Jesus
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
And what of the man who's just lost his closest loved one to a tragic illness or an "accident", and blames God... and has lost his faith in God due to his hardship... even curses God before he finally comes to the conclusion that there can not possibly be a God who would take his loved ones from him...
IS he saved?
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
you see Paul almost tried to Con people into following him... Even by saying "your deeds are nothing but filthy rags to God" which is again, Just wrong...
Belief doesn't matter... because we will all return home eventually... Even The atheist will return home... and will no longer be an atheist...
There are NO atheists after death... NONE
And that is because we return to what was before this incarnation... spirit
Even a Fool Can not deny what they are Once they see....
edit on 24-11-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)