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# Science has shown the universe is indistinguishable from consciousness

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posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:12 PM
Science has shown us that the universe is conscious. Human consciousness and the universe are indistinguishable from one another. I know many scientist don't like this and they have the attitude of determinism and materialism has to be right even if we have to stick our head in the sand.

I will go over the evidence.

1. Quantum Mechanics.

QM has thrown a huge monkey wrench into determinism and materialism. This is why Einstein and many others were troubled by what QM said. What QM basically says is the universe is conscious and makes a choice just like we do. Many people want hidden variables or some secret theory that will resurrect Newton but sorry, no Cigar.

Here's an example:

Let's say I go into a store and I'm about to buy a bag of Doritos or a bag of Funyuns. Before I make a choice, the most you can talk about is the probabilities as to which bag I will get. If you knew the initial conditions, you could give me weighted probabilities. For instance, if everytime I have come into this store and I chose between Doritos and Funyuns, I've picked Doritos 70% of the time and Funyuns 30% of the time.

This is the most you could say:

There's a 70% chance I will buy a bag of Doritos and a 30% chance that I will buy a bag of Funyuns. There's no way to quantify or determine which bag I will choose. This is simply what QM says about the universe. We can only talk about subatomic particles in terms of probability. It's like the wave function is the memory of the particle that just informs the classical observer about the probability of measuring the particle.

So the universe is like a series of conscious moments just like our lives.

It gets even deeper. This is because measurement collapses or appears to collapse the wave function. When a measurement occurs the history of the particles changes from that point and begins to evolve from that point according to Schrodinger's equation.

So measurement changes which history will unfold. This is true with consciousness and QM. Let's say I buy the bag of Funyuns. When I buy Funyans, I like a certain drink so I go to the cooler to buy the drink and I bump into a high school friend. We learn we're in the same business and we eventually become business partners.

If I would have bought the Doritos, I would have went straight to the check out and never bumped into my friend.

So there's two probable histories associated with each choice. Before measurement, only information about the probable states exist. This is true for Human consciousness and QM. So CHOICE creates reality. When you make a choice and reduce classical Shannon entropy to 0, a history unfolds based on that choice. Again, this is true for Human consciousness and for QM. In QM, it can't be reduced to zero because a subatomic particle can be a 1 and 0 at the same time and this leads some to the Many Worlds Interpretation.

So with M.W.I. both histories unfold when I make a choice. One where I buy Funyuns and one where I buy Doritos.

2. Subatomic particles and free will

Here's and article titles Subatomic particles have free will

SYDNEY: If humans have free will, then so do subatomic particles such as electrons, say U.S. mathematicians.

“If experimenters have a certain freedom, then particles have exactly the same kind of freedom,” wrote mathematicians John Conway and Simon Kochen, of Princeton University in New Jersey, in a recent paper published in Notices of the American Mathematical Society.

“Indeed, it is natural to suppose that this latter freedom is the ultimate explanation of our own,” they said.

“Conway and Kochen prove that the randomness does not depend on anything. They prove that the outcomes of these quantum random events are really completely independent of anything that has happened in the past,” he added.

If experimenters are free to choose between experiments – that is, the choice of experiments is not predetermined by past events – then the particle must also decide how to act on the spur of the moment.

www.cosmosmagazine.com...

Like I said, it gets even deeper and it goes back to the bags of Doritos and Funyuns. This is what the universe boils down to. The reason why some prefer determinism over free will because they can't explain who has free will and whose making the choice. If the universe is based on free will then the universe is making a choice just like I would choose between Doritos and Funyans and that choice is random.

3. Quantum Mind

This is very interesting with the emerging field of Quantum Biology. When you have classical organisms using quantum search or random walk algorithms to make decisions this is huge. If quantum effects can be used for photosynthesis, sense of smell, migration of birds and more then why not consciousness. Why wouldn't evolution apply these effects to consciousness? A species with a Quantum Mind and a classical brain like ours would have a huge advantage and this is what we see.

This would also mean the universe is conscious and consciousness is tied to decoherence. So everytime a quantum-classical threshold is met a conscious experience would occur. So the universe would be a stream of conscious moments just like our lives.

Here's a video with Hammeroff talking about the Quantum Soul:

The universe makes a choice and it observes that choice whether it's an electron or a human being that's observing probable states.

So the universe and human beings can make random and informed choices.
edit on 23-11-2013 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:29 PM
You could smell it,
So you left me on my own
To complete the mission
Now I'm leaving it all behind...

Our reality is merely the resistance (or radiation) of a single point. Reality is the center at which matter churns itself inside the vortex. Traditionally speaking time/ motion does not exist. It's an assembly/reassembly from one center to the next. We are static in particle form while the entire Universe is kinetic in nature. Information/consciousness grants us the control to manifest (assemble/reassemble) reality.

Becoming aware of this concept allows you to generate less resistance through the vortices passing bits of information/consciousness (such realities are in constant cycle). If we were to "link up" and work together, information/consciousness is passed on a more robust scale (creating even less resistance), and "cycling" understanding at far greater rates. And that's all Life is... Understanding.

My first ever post on ATS: System of Truth

Being: Infinite possibilities.

Existence: Infinite Awareness of Being in Infinite Reality.
Example: One comprehends Everything One can render while passing through Every occasion of the Universe.

edit on 23-11-2013 by Americanist because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:34 PM

You have probably read some of my posts; so you know
that I'm very open to science and mysticism being
2 sides of the same coin.. that will meet in the
middle; that i'm very well versed in both.

But if I were a moderator; I'd move this post out of
this forum; your premise has NOT remotely been
proven; and in fact probably won't or can't be
proven for hundreds of years. By definition, this
is a post about metaphysics. And there is nothing
wrong with metaphysics. Much of today's modern
science was once metaphysics.

KPB

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:37 PM

This is just playing word games. Saying inanimate objects have consciousness, because you break them down and then regroup them as one thing the entire universe is a fallacy.

The universe has laws that apply to everything that exists within it, no matter how small or large. The only place the laws of the universe do not exist is inside consciousnesses.

There might be some laws we don't know yet or have wrong but they exist and they are constant and we know that.

Freewill only exists within consciousnesses.

If you were the highlander you could stare at a rock for a million year it will never make any choices or doing anything at all. However you could take that rock and build anything you can see in your mind.

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:37 PM

neoholographic
I've picked Doritos 70% of the time and Funyuns 30% of the time.

This is the most you could say:

There's a 70% chance I will buy a bag of Doritos and a 30% chance that I will buy a bag of Funyuns.
That's the most you can say on one trip, but you will more than likely make 100 purchases and then we can say that most likely 70 of them will be Doritos and 30 of them will be Funyuns.

Make another hundred purchases and next time it may be 71 Doritos and 29 Funyuns.

Make another hundred purchases and next time it may be 69 Doritos and 31 Funyuns.

While you're trying to sell this as unpredictable, I find this behavior exactly the opposite of your claim, very predictable, extremely so using well known math.

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:38 PM

What??

The post is about current scientific understanding not metaphysics.

Have you read about quantum biology or the article on subatomic particles and free will? It has nothing to do with metaphysics.

According to this criteria there could never be a post in the science section on String Theory, loop quantum gravity, branes, Hawking Radiation or extra dimensions.

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:41 PM

Outstanding!

And I absolutely agree with all of the premises of your OP. I've often said that the key to real understanding of the true nature of reality will come from breakthroughs in Quantum Physics and Neurobiology with a large supporting role played by Mathematics all validated by certain areas of Metaphysics.

BTW I didn't know there was a field of quantum biology - I think that's terrific - and shows at least some people are on the right path.

The human brain is a quantum device that also has electrical & chemical properties associated with it because it is of course living tissue. The mind on the other hand (or consciousness if you prefer), is the observer and somewhat-controller of that device. As this OP can spawn multiple threads that will fit nicely within many different forums I'll just leave it there for now.

We live in a quantum universe - period. Just because there are also "laws" that work on a more macro-scale (Einstein, Newton et al) does not invalidate that. Those laws are simply different expressions of quantum physics that work on a larger scale. And so the search for the grand unified theory goes on. But it is now and always has been a misnomer. We don't need a unified theory. We need a much better understanding of the quantum world and from that all else will follow.

Again, great OP - S&F. It will be interesting to see where this discussion goes.

ETA - BTW, be prepared to be jumped on for your post. Many will vehemently disagree, others may try and change the subject and some will simply troll. But don't worry - that just means you're on the right track.
edit on 11/23/2013 by Riffrafter because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:42 PM

neoholographic

What??

The post is about current scientific understanding not metaphysics.

Have you read about quantum biology or the article on subatomic particles and free will? It has nothing to do with metaphysics.

According to this criteria there could never be a post in the science section on String Theory, loop quantum gravity, branes, Hawking Radiation or extra dimensions.

Yes.. I may have read more material than you have.. I've been
studying science since I was approximately 6 years old, when
I read the encyclopedia from A to Z; I was a nuclear reactor
engineer .. and a practicing mystic / shaman.

I'm probably close to an authority on this subject.

And.. it belongs in the metaphysics folder.

But I'm not a moderator.. so that's just my observation.

KPB

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:45 PM

Nope, it isn't predictable in any way. The most you can say is there's a probability that I will choose Doritos or Funyans you can't determine which bag I will choose and that's the point.

So when I walk into the store, how will you determine if I'm having a 70% day and I will buy a bag of Doritos or I'm having a 30% day and I will buy a bag of Funyans?

You can't!

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:49 PM

You're observation makes zero sense.

You know what else is talked about in science?

Is the universe a hologram?

Is the universe a simulation?

Is time an illusion?

Do extra dimensions exist?

Are there parallel universes?

Again, I gave you current scientific understanding and it has nothing to do with metaphysics. Like I said, if we used your criteria, Theoretical Physicist might as well leave the science folder.

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 02:53 PM

Riffrafter

Outstanding!

And I absolutely agree with all of the premises of your OP. I've often said that the key to real understanding of the true nature of reality will come from breakthroughs in Quantum Physics and Neurobiology with a large supporting role played by Mathematics all validated by certain areas of Metaphysics.

BTW I didn't know there was a field of quantum biology - I think that's terrific - and shows at least some people are on the right path.

The human brain is a quantum device that also has electrical & chemical properties associated with it because it is of course living tissue. The mind on the other hand, is the observer and somewhat-controller of that device. As this OP can spawn multiple threads that will fit nicely within many different forums so I'll leave it there for now.

We live in a quantum universe. Just because there are also "laws" that work on a more macro-scale (Einstein, Newton et al) does not invalidate that. Those laws are simply different expressions of quantum physics that work on a larger scale. And so the search for the grand unified theory goes on. But it is now and always has been a misnomer. We don't need a unified theory. We need a much better understanding of the quantum world and from that all else will flow.

Again, great OP - S&F. It will be interesting to see where this discussion goes.

ETA - BTW, be prepared to be jumped on for your post. Many will vehemently disagree, others may try and change the subject and some will simply troll. But don't worry - that just means you're on the right track. Hang tough.

edit on 11/23/2013 by Riffrafter because: (no reason given)

Good points and yes the emerging field of Quantum Biology is fascinating. It will also scare some people because the question will be asked, if quantum effects can be used for the migration of birds then why not consciousness.

A Quantum Mind opens up a lot of doors. Many of the things that are labeled paranormal is easily explained in the context of superposition, entanglement and non locality.

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 03:04 PM

I'm probably close to an authority on this subject.

Easy there, KPB.

Statements like that will get you stomped on pretty quickly around here.

Thanks heavens for the "close" qualifier or there would be demands to show qualifications (and rightly so).

You've put up a number of interesting & thought provoking posts but saying you've read a lot of books and espousing a number of interesting theories & opinions does not an authority make. You may be "close to an authority" but you haven't proven it yet.

Although it may not look like it, I'm actually trying to help you out here...

ETA - I do agree with you that many of the off-shoots of this discussion will belong squarely in the metaphysics forum - for now. It could also spawn discussions in various science and medical forums. It's a thought provoking goody box of an OP - that's for sure.
edit on 11/23/2013 by Riffrafter because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 03:06 PM
Hey thanks for posting your OP, it's a subject I'm very interested in.

I definitely learned something new today, and as a layman I found your way of presentation to be easy to understand.

Cheers

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 03:23 PM

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 03:24 PM

I did say 'probably' and 'close'.
One thing I've learned in my life, is that no matter how good
you think you are, there is always someone better!

I didn't say it wasn't a good post..

KPB

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 03:27 PM

Yes you did and no you didn't.

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 05:47 PM
Multiple universes is BS. I understand how it would be believable on paper, but it's just not true. Here is why. When you go to the store to by funions vs Doritos, you will be choosing one over the other. The choice with come from your will, even if you are having a hard time deciding, your decision will finally be made through the combination of time and circumstance. For instance, you are having a hard time deciding, really agonizing over it, hitting all the points, and finally, it dawns on you, that drink that you like to have with funions would really quench your thirst. So you go with the funions. For other universes, infinite rather, to be possible, we would have to be merely collections of percentages. But we are not. We are willful beings with ideas, memories, and desires. And these combined characteristics lead us down a single path. Not an infinite path. Your thirst will still put you over the edge to buy the funions, you will still be thirsty because of previous choices, and you will still make those previous choices based on your unique will.

posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 09:32 PM

You've just described what God's says about the universe being a spiritual creation on a level huamns cannot grasp because we are fully spirit yet.

Awesome. Intelligent design supported.

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 11:26 AM

SasquatchHunter

The universe has laws that apply to everything that exists within it, no matter how small or large.

This statement is completely false. On the quantum level, particles do not follow the same laws that we observe around us. If electrons followed Newtonian physics, then electrons would spiral into the nucleus of the atom, giving off visible light, and eventually collide with it. This is not the case.

Instead, what we see is that electrons occupy very specific energy levels (orbitals), resulting in their location being measured as a probability of being in a certain three dimensional area dependant on their energy level. All sorts of other interesting rules become very important, such as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which essentially states that if we know a particle's position, we may not know it's momentum, and vice versa.

So yeah, there's a crash course on high school chemistry.

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 03:51 PM

Nootropic

SasquatchHunter

The universe has laws that apply to everything that exists within it, no matter how small or large.

This statement is completely false. On the quantum level, particles do not follow the same laws that we observe around us. If electrons followed Newtonian physics, then electrons would spiral into the nucleus of the atom, giving off visible light, and eventually collide with it. This is not the case.

Instead, what we see is that electrons occupy very specific energy levels (orbitals), resulting in their location being measured as a probability of being in a certain three dimensional area dependant on their energy level. All sorts of other interesting rules become very important, such as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which essentially states that if we know a particle's position, we may not know it's momentum, and vice versa.

So yeah, there's a crash course on high school chemistry.

Amazingly you ignore my very next statement in my post.

There might be some laws we don't know yet or have wrong but they exist and they are constant and we know that.

See if you can mix up some vitamins that actually make you smart enough to not have to misrepresent peoples statements and real life situations.

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