Online poker sites rigged?

Mods, if this is the wrong place for this, go ahead and move it.

Well, I dunno if any one else here plays poker, but I have for years. Recently, there has been a poker craze the likes of which have never been seen. People of all ages and from both genders are getting into it, and as a result there has been a HUGE boom in the internet gaming industry.

Sites such as PartyPoker are raking in BILLIONS off of this. Recently I have been playing at a few places like this because it is easier to find a game there then to drive the hour to Atlantic city from the burbs of Philly or to find 5+ people who know how to play and are both willing to put up a decent amount of money and are free a given night.

So I started playing, and noticed a very disturbing trend. The program which generates the hands (cards) supposedly at random seems to "bait" people.

For instance, it will give several people very good hands, such as 2 pair or 3 of a kind, and then give 1 other person a hand that beats them if they stay in.

I have seen straights beaten by flushes, and flushes beaten by a full house, and even saw a full house beaten by 4 of a kind. This all hapens SIGNIFICANTLY more often then it should. In fact, it seems like this happens about every 3rd hand dealt.

For instance, there is a 1 in 254 chance of a straight (5 cards in consecutive order, ie 4,5,6,7,8) occuring. That is less then 1/2%. Yet I often see this hand beaten by an even more unlikely hand such as a flush (5 cards all of the same suit) which is a 1 in 508 chance.

Of course, this is in "texas Hold 'em" poker, which is by far the most volitile game by nature and has been popularized by the movie "rounders" and ESPNs coverage of the World Series Of Poker.

Still though, it happens with such frequency that I stopped playing for money on line just 3 days after I started (still took home money though ).

Another tactic I noticed, was that when you first signed up, you would be dealt very strong hands early on, so as to build a new players confidence, and then use the above method to take away the money you won. This was true in every single site I used, and to test the theory, I even created multiple accounts on each site just to check.

The funny thing is, the online casinos don't lose money when you do well, because they make money by taking the "rake" which is just part of the pot. So the winner still wins, the loser still loses, but the casino always gets payed. The difference is, with the "baiting" the pots get a lot larger, and thus, so do the rakes for the casino.

Anyway, I am sure a lot of you probably think I am just a gambling junkie or something, and want to say that its just the law of averages, but I assure you, as someone who has been playing the game for years, and was taught by a semi pro, that I know what I am talking about. It was consistant at every site I tried, consistantly mathmatically unlikely.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else noticed this, and also I was wondering if anyone could explain how the hands are formulated by the computer, if there is a chance it is "rigged", and if there is any way to check to see if a site is in fact rigged.

[edit on 17-11-2004 by American Mad Man]

No, your not a nut. I think this could be very possible. I however, have not tried with real money, any poker site. Just stickin with the real life game, and takin people's money.

I was however recently delt my first-ever royal flush, man it was golden, and aweing moment, and almost # my pants. Needless to say, I won that pot, and I loved it when I got called.

Sorry

I don't mean to laugh at you but you are truely a gambler if you take a chance at online gambling sites.
Not only now will you be spammed by every gambling and adult site but they will also be sending you junk mail to the billing address on your credit card statement.
I would much rather take the risk in Atlantic City.

I quit playing for cash on the Internet a long time ago. I won, but it was more a grind than the grind should be. I found myself taking so much time, playing too tightly, waiting for premium hands. I cashed out up, but it wasn't enjoyable to me at all. I'll still sit in on the freeroll tourneys from time to time. What's to lose?

But you're right about those bad beats. They just seem to happen more often than should be mathematically possible. Once I thought it was because you'll typically see 2 to 3 times as many hands in an equal amount of time at a casino table, but it still seemed against odds to see the frequency of boats and straights.

Originally posted by evecasino
Not only now will you be spammed by every gambling and adult site but they will also be sending you junk mail to the billing address on your credit card statement.

This, however, in the last year and a half of my online gaming, has never happened. Nice try, though.

for some REASON I just knew that DC would have something to say on this subject......
hey DC win ALOT of money and buy my subaru from me, I am ready to let it go I think.....

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
I quit playing for cash on the Internet a long time ago. I won, but it was more a grind than the grind should be. I found myself taking so much time, playing too tightly, waiting for premium hands. I cashed out up, but it wasn't enjoyable to me at all. I'll still sit in on the freeroll tourneys from time to time. What's to lose?

But you're right about those bad beats. They just seem to happen more often than should be mathematically possible. Once I thought it was because you'll typically see 2 to 3 times as many hands in an equal amount of time at a casino table, but it still seemed against odds to see the frequency of boats and straights.

Your right about the grind. There is just something so much more enjoyable about sitting at a casino, having some nice clay chips, felt and real cards - not to mention the free drinks at casinos

Also, playing tight always seemed to back fire on me - I'd wait for face cards and what not, and the flop would come out like 3,6,2 and someone would always make a pair or straight. Anyways, I ended up in the green about 50 bucks, so I am happy, but it really was just unreal how many monster hands people would get.

Hey TRG!

I'm probably buying my brother's Corrolla in a couple of weeks. He's a rich man now. An oil man. Just bought himself a jacked up Silverado. A big dick truck. I suggested he airbrush "The Compensator" along both sides of it, just for the truth's sake.

Won't be any trips to Nevada until after the holiday season, though. I tend to live on a budget this time of year. After Christmas, it's tourney time! Plus, there's going to be quite a few World Series of Poker entry sattelites here in SLC upcoming. I'm there, dude!

AMM,

I started to play too tightly when I realized that with so many amateurs, you were too likely to get drawn out on on the turn or the river. Also, bluffing is hardly an option at a low stakes table since the people at these tables will see their hands to the river whether they have cards or not. I don't know how many times I've held KK or QQ and been drawn out on by some punk holding 33 for trips on the turn...

'THE COMPENSATOR' your SO funny! dats a good one FO SHO!

a corola is NOT a 4x4 dude.......dont cha KNOW it snows up where you live? Sheesh I would throw in the kewl hippy trailor to, and you could have a HOME of your own as well as wheels ..........put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!
I would say call me but you CANT when Im online

Well i dont even know how to play poker so i am safe i dont really as well

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
AMM,

I started to play too tightly when I realized that with so many amateurs, you were too likely to get drawn out on on the turn or the river. Also, bluffing is hardly an option at a low stakes table since the people at these tables will see their hands to the river whether they have cards or not. I don't know how many times I've held KK or QQ and been drawn out on by some punk holding 33 for trips on the turn...

Sooooooo true. They will just call anything cause it doesn't cost them that much. A high pair just didn't seem to cut it.

actually i have notced an extremely abnormal amount of better than average hands. personally i wouldn't play online for real money because there is always a chance my computer will screw up, or the server will screw up. why risk real money when there's even a chance of getting shafted. one other thing, people who are really into it will be playing multiple accounts at one time. this means they will be playing several hands at the table and have a HUGE advantage because they know more about the cards that are out. some people even have multiple computers set up in one room for just that reason

Originally posted by vapor
actually i have notced an extremely abnormal amount of better than average hands. personally i wouldn't play online for real money because there is always a chance my computer will screw up, or the server will screw up. why risk real money when there's even a chance of getting shafted. one other thing, people who are really into it will be playing multiple accounts at one time. this means they will be playing several hands at the table and have a HUGE advantage because they know more about the cards that are out. some people even have multiple computers set up in one room for just that reason

You are so right about that. When I was still in school, a buddy of mine would take all his roomates computers and have them all in on the same table. Thats playing 5 of the 10 hands at once.

I wish there was some kind of way they could eliminate that, but I doubt there is.

Like I said, I wasn't playing for big money - I save that for home games and casinos - but i figured it was a reasonable entertainment alternative, because thats what poker is to me - entertainment.

I was just really dissapointed in the way hands and flops were generated. To me it seemed CLEARLY rigged so there would be more action on the table.

Well I happen to love logging on to Poker Stars and playing Texas Hold'em. Yes I know what you are saying bout the odds. We have been frustrated before as well. Poker Stars seems to be pretty good about considering how many people that enter into the World Series of Poker every year. My friend got in last year off of the site. The last 2 years the champion has been a Poker Stars player. The thing you have to always learn is that if you see a pattern like that happening all the time (like an Ace always coming on 5th street) be aware that it aplpies for other players as well. Benefit of playing in these style tourneys is that you are only playing with real players and not against computers. Keep up the play and good luck. If you see me on there as Deep Thinker, say hey.

By the way if you ever suspect 2 people of cheating on the table, for example they always set each other up, make a note of their names and send a report to the admin. When their play is reviewed, and a pattern is established in supporting one another, they will be banned. Its happened before.

Man I stopped going to Atlanitic city after losing too much money and plus im a student. But I love the casino's so many lights.....oooooh so many lights.

How many people are you playing against that are sitting in the same room?

Do you think you are playing against random people across the globe? Lets just say I have some friends that's mailing addresses are in different cities....and they get together nightly on the phone as they wait at a table for some monkees to join the game. Anyone who sits at the table is playing a 4 man team. They all know what each other has and what has been played out of the deck...this give them a TREMENDOUS advantage when playing someone. Its the high tech way to cheat!....I actually did a small story on this about 5 years ago when I owned an online casino.

Anyway, the friends mentioned above cleared 7 figures in a little over a year, split 4 ways.

Remember, unless you run the game, the game is gonna be slanted out of your favor, always! Thats why running the game is so important. I like running the game better and than playing it. GIve me that guaranteed cut every hand!

Great observation....

I play at Partypoker.com.... however only for "play" money....

I thought about signing up with $100.00, just to give it a try... but backed out... I figure for the most part, you're not going to win anything...

Also, even playing with the "play" money, my first few hands I won, big and once I built up the chips, started losing them.... on good hands..

I'll just stick to my family game on the once a month basis...