All of Existence is Dependent Upon Mind and Without Mind Nothing Exists

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posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by AlienView
 


Then why don't I have a Filet Mignon and some Peppermint Chip Ice Cream right now? Because they are at the Grocery Store, and my Energy Vibration has been so Lowered that I'm am staying on this couch no Matter what!




posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 09:23 PM
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My thinking is, the mind was created when we decided to lower our consciousness and create a 3d world in which we are now living in. While down here lifetime after lifetime, our mind takes control of our thinking in order to help us achieve what we came down here for, eg experience.
Our mind works with our feelings and emotions, not to mention the possibilities of everything we do or dont do. the more we saturate our mind with wisdom, the more our mind will be able to help us in new aspects of thinking, then we will have the ability to think outside the square box so to speak.
Since the mind is not physical and the rest of the world is, to me it is like a doorway to a non physical place.
Nothing can be thought of without the mind until we are know longer in this 3d world eg death.
My 2 cents worth lol



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by BazRaza7
 




Nothing can be thought of without the mind until we are know longer in this 3d world eg death.


“That is not dead which can eternal lie, yet with stranger eons, even death may die.”
― H.P. Lovecraft


From mind you come - to mind you return - All else is commentary.



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 09:53 PM
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Just adding some more toughts to it.

The ability to be aware of our own existence and the physical world around us as well as question it all, is just a product of our brilliant brain which is nothing more than an advanced organic computer. We have no souls and there is nothing that continues live in us when we die. I think we must stop to consider us more important than we really are.

Even though we might be the most intelligent beings of all the life forms we know, we probably still only play a minor role in it all. It’s in human being’s nature to consider our self more important and more powerful than we actually are, and many people will find it hard to accept that death means the end of everything. Even our inner ‘spirits’.

IMV. No life forms can exist in some kind of spiritual world. All life forms need some kind of mass to exist. I don’t quite know what people actually means when they refer to spiritual beings or a spiritual state of being, but I guess that someone has established such ideas because of the inner dialog between the ‘Self’ and the ‘Me’ that is going on in our brains. This inner dialog is not some kind of spiritual beings that are alive inside our brains, but is rather an illusion that the system in our brains creates. Both the ‘Self’ and the ‘Me’ are made out of mass (brain cells). When we die. Those components dies as well and are not being released into some kind of spiritual world. They need mass to exist within. I admit that the genius system and the architecture of the brain gives an almost perfect feeling of some kind of inner spirit beings, but it is however (and sadly) all a matter of brilliant design.

Because all life forms needs some kind of mass to exist. They also need a physical foundation to live on, as well as some surrounding conditions to be right. In other words. It needs chaos to turn into order. I still believe life forms and human beings on Earth are a result of design and that we are a part of a greater design as well as having some kind of purpose. It’s hard to believe that the huge universe that are out there somehow was brought into being if there was no one there to observe it and explore it. Or said with other words. What is the purpose of the universe if it was not for intelligent human beings?

I am still struggling to understand why the universe is so extremely huge though. If Earth was pointed out or somehow destined to be the only planet in the universe that was to contains organic life forms, wouldn’t a universe with a couple of galaxies in it had sufficed? Isn’t it all a huge overkill?

However. If the universe has millions of planets similar to Earth, it would all make much more sense. But then again. Why haven’t we discovered such planets yet? Could it be that (the one(s) behind it all) planned it this way? Could it be that those planets that supports life forms in the universe are spread around so distant from each other that it would take us forever to find them. Perhaps that was done intentionally.



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by helius
 



IMV. No life forms can exist in some kind of spiritual world. All life forms need some kind of mass to exist.


As previously stated Einstein reached the conclusion as a physicist that physical matter is a form of energy and matter is only another form of energy. So what is physical mass? - a form of energy. As I stated, and in fact, these are mental concepts based upon abstractions of mind. What is mind? I'm not sure but do assert that without it nothing exists - including the word existence, another abstraction of mind. Try as you may you can not escape from mind- though will admit some Eastern religions such as the Zen doctrine of no mind do attempt it.

=======================================================================================================


One-page proof that attributing consciousness to the brain is absurd Sep
21
by Jon Rappoport
One-page proof that attributing consciousness to the brain is absurd

by Jon Rappoport

September 21, 2013

www.nomorefakenews.com

Consider this an open letter to philosophers, brain researchers, physicists, technocrats, Ray Kurzweil, and TED executives who censored lectures on consciousness by Graham Hancock and Rupert Sheldrake.

Conventional science readily admits (insists) that the brain is made of the same particles that constitute everything else in the universe: rocks, chairs, comets, meteors, galaxies.

According to conventional physicists, these particles are not conscious.

Therefore, there is no reason to conclude the brain is conscious.

The brain has no more ability to spawn consciousness than a rock does.

End of story. End of proof.

You’re welcome.

Of course, a few scientists will argue (and many more will privately believe) that, since we humans ARE conscious, this proves the brain is producing consciousness—because, where else could we look for an explanation?

Which is called circular reasoning. Meaning: you already assume what you’re trying to prove. Any first-semester logic student would mark that argument INVALID.

Some scientists, suddenly invoking a brand of mysticism they otherwise deplore, claim the unique complex configuration of particles called the brain somehow—in this one case—has a capacity to break every rule in the book and deliver consciousness.

But no proof, just faith. Supposition.

Finally, you have a sprinkling of renegade physicists who assert that everything in the universe—rocks, chairs, pencils, lamps, trees, stars, galaxies are conscious.

Fine. However, their argument trivializes the brain as the seat of consciousness, because the human arm and leg and thumb and belly button and butt are all conscious, too. In which case, so what?

Exit From the Matrix

Bottom line? All conventional scientific arguments for the brain as the “place of consciousness” are futile and absurd. And this leads to something beyond scientific and philosophic materialism.

It leads to non-material consciousness............


See rest of article here:
jonrappoport.wordpress.com...
edit on 25-11-2013 by AlienView because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by AlienView
 





helius
No life forms can exist in some kind of spiritual world. All life forms need some kind of mass to exist.


I'm sure there were 'happy little clouds' in the sky before Mr. Ross picked up his paint brush to express his perception of them using the matter contained in his oil paint and canvass. It is a question of mind over matter; that the mind enables a being to have awareness of, to perceive, and to respond. That the mind may somehow separate from physical existence is considered in the concept of Duality. We don't know how ultimately small the matter within mass may be, therefore a spiritual form may be possible within the remnants of matter left behind after death, i.e. skin and breath left behind on clothing and furniture. When combined with the energy of the Universe it may be possible that our abandoned matter may continue to exist in a form beyond our mindful perception due to an ultimately small size and change in frequency. This might explain the opacity of spirits that some have claimed to see. We do not yet completely understand the Dark Matter or 'the space between' that we see in our Universe. We know that there are differences among humans in the perception of color, light, and sound and among all species. We, as humans, are limited by our physical senses by our brain's perception of matter and frequency. Even the most enlightened among us are limited by human perceptions.

edit on 26-11-2013 by BurbGirl378 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by BurbGirl378
 


I agree. If there is a creator emanating from mind and/or creating mind, if nothing else he/she would be the supreme artist and architect of the universe. But this too is an abstraction of mind - still the lowest and highest common denominator of all that is.

======================================================================================================




Van Morrison Into The Mystic Lyrics

Songwriters: MORRISON, VAN

We were born before the wind
Also younger than the sun
Ere the bonnie boat was won as we sailed into the mystic
Hark, now hear the sailors cry
Smell the sea and feel the sky
Let your soul and spirit fly into the mystic

And when that fog horn blows I will be coming home
And when that fog horn blows I want to hear it
I don't have to fear it
I want to rock your gypsy soul
Just like way back in the days of old
Then magnificently we will float into the mystic
And when that fog horn blows you know I will be coming home
And when thst fog horn whistle blows I got to hear it
I don't have to fear it
I want to rock your gypsy soul
Just like way back in the days of old
And together we will float into the mystic
Come on girl...


edit on 26-11-2013 by AlienView because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 03:49 AM
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AlienView
All of Existence is Dependent Upon Mind and Without Mind Nothing Exists.



(Nothing)

The non-existence of everything...

torsion energy
dark energy
zero-point energy
energy
magnetism
dark matter
matter
mass
gravity
inertia
acceleration
momentum
vibration
consciousness
different dimensions
spiritualism
Celestial-ism
...and all those other forces and weird S#@? that Human kind has yet to stumble across and detect.



"Nothing" still IS even if there isn't someone or something, in it, to bare witness that there isn't 'nothing' anymore...

If there was/is nothing to begin with, then absolutely ANYTHING could always be the first thing, and that thing; whatever it was/is, doesn't necessarily have to have a consciousness or be consciousness.

So yes existence can be obtained without the mind.


Even if consciousness WAS the first thing to exist - it "could" have always been anything else.


(This was not easy to write - maybe it even make sense to someone).
edit on 26-11-2013 by crzayfool because: Had to correct something... ?



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 03:50 AM
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AlienView
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

The problem I have here is trying to define and understand consciousness. Many times I get into debates on the issue of whether AI [artificial intelligence, computers} can become conscious and often the naysayers who say it can not happen can not adequately define consciousness. What is conscious? How conscious? Conscious of what, of who?
You see I'm not sure what consciousness is - are you? 'Mind' on the other hand, which is also open to interpretation, can be viewed as a prime concept - we can not perceive, communicate, or inter-react without mind. And I can not understand how anything can exist without mind.



Your problem is seeking to define it rather than let it be.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:06 AM
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Capslockwarlock69

Your problem is seeking to define it rather than let it be.


That's exactly where I was headed with my previous post - believe it or not.


Studying is an invention, and has been bread into our race, as a way of finding out stuff that we don't know.



OP: Stuff just happens. Always. Ever. Forever.

(Don't stop asking the questions though. You got my mind going maentl)



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:52 AM
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helius
Just adding some more toughts to it.

The ability to be aware of our own existence and the physical world around us as well as question it all, is just a product of our brilliant brain which is nothing more than an advanced organic computer. We have no souls and there is nothing that continues live in us when we die. I think we must stop to consider us more important than we really are...


...I am still struggling to understand why the universe is so extremely huge though. If Earth was pointed out or somehow destined to be the only planet in the universe that was to contains organic life forms, wouldn’t a universe with a couple of galaxies in it had sufficed? Isn’t it all a huge overkill?

However. If the universe has millions of planets similar to Earth, it would all make much more sense. But then again. Why haven’t we discovered such planets yet? Could it be that (the one(s) behind it all) planned it this way? Could it be that those planets that supports life forms in the universe are spread around so distant from each other that it would take us forever to find them. Perhaps that was done intentionally.



This is a very 'Brain' way of thinking.

You can feel alive - you cannot "think" alive.

You may argue that feelings are also processed by the brain yes but, you don't "think" feelings; You experience, interpret and remember them - via your brain.

(Do you see the difference?)

Thinking is what a person, based on their current life experience makes up inside that brain.
The life force that animates that brain, however, is not controlled by the brain nor detectable by the brain.

[Go and sit on your own and relax for a while. Just for a few minutes. "Feel" inside and experience what it is to be alive. You'll find it's a lot different to thinking].




As for why the universe is so hugely massive...

Because it has been growing for an uncountable length of time, already, and still continues.

There will be a limit to where this current universe ends, in a physical sense (looking like a scaled up version of a galaxy), but the nothingness that surrounds it is yet to be filled by that ever expanding universe - so effectively the "Big Bang" hasn't even happend there yet. This means new things can still pop into existence, within that nothingness, from our current universe witnessing that it's now going into the "nothing" forever (absolutely absurd I know).

Mankind has found 100's of 'Super-Earth-Like' planets but, as above - referring to the ever growing size... We have propulsion...

Hydrogen, Oxygen, Plasma, Fusion or otherwise - we still only have rockets LMFAO.
That is why WE haven't discovered anyone yet - it's an untterly futile waste of time. The others may have already found each-other though! Maybe they aren't even looking anymore.

Maybe they came and went?


Maybe they'll come back?




... Maybe they're still here ...



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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winofiend

arpgme
reply to post by AlienView
 


No. I agree with you completely.

In order to prove anything you must first exist. If it isn't EXPERIENCED (awareness/mind) then there is no way to study it.


By experience, I mean seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling and our 6th sense of Feeling.


Before " I Know" I must first "Be".


I disagree with this.

What happens if you read about an experience. You are experience the reading.. but not the event that you are reading about. But do you deny by default that the event took place? Why read about it then.

So events occur without the mind to experience it. But for us to experience it, we require the mind.

Without the mind, the reality does not cease to exist, only our experience of it.

This is one concept I think has been hijacked by people who have no understanding of what it is trying to teach, and it has taken off on it's own.... erroneous is it's use..

Everything you experience is your reality. Everything you experience is perceived by you. Your perception makes it what it is. Good or bad, happy or unhappy, love or jealous. You have that perception. But regardless of how you perceive it, the reality of it still exists without judgement.

One thing can be observed by many, and many different perceptions of the same thing can be taken away from it.

An event may result in one man's good fortune and another man's misfortune. Yet the same event has taken place. Their mind's judgment defines their reality.

You see someone walking up the road towards you. She is your ex lover. Your friend next to you, greets her. She is his new lover. You both see the same person, yet both feel two opposite things.

One thing, many realities. And it exists whether you are there to witness it or not.



Yes!



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 08:36 AM
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Some good ideas humans we appreciate your input.

Now to get back to this enigmatic thing called mind. The more I think about what I said and the replies you have given, the more I reflect on just what I mean when I say mind. No, I'm not talking about consciousness which implies a conscious awareness and a self. What I''m saying is mind exists independently of consciousness and yet is indespensible for consciousness to exist. Mind itself possess no consciousness and yet its manifestations do appearantly lead to conscious entities such as humans. So, and in essence, we are existing highlighted by a mind attempting to define itself - asking us to give it consciousness. Or as man thinks he needs a god - It may also be asserted that it is God who needs Man to give him consciousness. A free floating consciousness existing indepenetly of man, god, or mind is not feasible. Existence is definable with natural laws and science - It is after all operating with some form of intelligent design even if this design is still not fully understandable by the human MIND.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 09:14 AM
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Isn't mind just experience? We are born with the ability to receive input, so how much of what a newborn baby does is instinctual? At what point do we use pool our experiences into the "been there, done that" file so we either react as taught or mimicked?

I don't claim to know just asking.

We just adopted a very frail and frightened 5 year old female yorkshire terrier that was used as a puppy mill breeder dog. We already have a very "smart" male, 11 years old. This new dog has no knowledge of even how to walk on a leash or find a place to "go" out in our backyard. She has slowly come to understand how to be a loved pet by watching the male. I'm actually learning new things about how animals (and people!) "think" by watching her. She didn't even look into our eyes, bark, or wag her tail when we got her. Pure fear.

What did the very first humans do? How did they figure out how to eat and stay alive? Did they fear anything? How did they learn or teach each other? What "mind" existed? Or, was it all biological, just humans as organisms?



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by eggman90
 


Exactly what that enigmatic entity called mind is is, like consciousness, open to speculation. Direction, meaning and ultimate destiny of man and mind still remains to be seen. Still humans should consider themselves and their minds to be part of the equation and part of the ultimate destiny of both themselves and the universe.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 



Does anyone in this thread know, relatively clearly and completely, what anyone else's position is?

You could ask that question about the viewpoints in any discussion on any subject. The answer would always be 'probably not'. But that doesn't prevent human beings from communicating with and understanding each other, so I don't think we need trouble ourselves inordinately over it.


One, show the difficulty of what I understood was being argued.

It is, indeed, known to philosophers as the Hard Problem.


Two simultaneous creations.

Creations? Why 'creations'? Are you assuming that something which exists must have been created? Why so?


The advantage to positing God as a party to this is that you have your perceiver already in place, the Eternal Perceiver.

The disadvantage, of course, is that you eliminate both the possibility of free will and, more important, the necessity for you to be conscious at all. Thus you explain nothing about consciousness when you invoke God.


Honestly, Astyanax, I'm trying to be understandable.

You have succeeded. But take my advice and never invoke God in a philosophical argument. Ever since Nietzsche, that's been a hiding to nothing.

*


reply to post by AlienView
 



Not a single word or concept uttered so far could occur or be uttered without mind

So what? Not a single word or concept uttered so far is necessary in order that the world might exist.


All of Existence is Dependent Upon Mind and Without Mind Nothing Exists.

Prove it.

*


[reply to post by helius
 



I don’t quite know what people actually means when they refer to spiritual beings or a spiritual state of being

Yeah. And here's Charles1952 asking whether we know what the other guy's thinking. Most of the time, as you say, we don't even know what we're thinking ourselves. Consciousness. Overrated, if you ask me.

No, seriously. I was visiting the parents of a 9-month-old an hour or so ago. The mother told me that she suddenly discovered, when she became a mother, how she suddenly began exhibiting, instinctively, a whole bunch of child-tending behaviours nobody ever taught her and she certainly never thought about. It amazed her. Unconscious evolutionary programming kicking in, y'see. We're animals.

I believe in consciousness, by the way. It's a real thing. I have it. So do you. So does — seriously — a worm: some kind of consciousness. But to proclaim that it is immaterial, eternal and precedent reveals a lamentable fragility of ego.

edit on 26/11/13 by Astyanax because: of unconscious typographical errors.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 12:09 PM
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AlienView
reply to post by eggman90
 


Exactly what that enigmatic entity called mind is is, like consciousness, open to speculation. Direction, meaning and ultimate destiny of man and mind still remains to be seen. Still humans should consider themselves and their minds to be part of the equation and part of the ultimate destiny of both themselves and the universe.



Well chosen word-destiny. No mind needed for that, as you suggested. However, by pure definition it is predetermined. Maybe "destination"?

Just spewing out stuff, as I agree with your statements in this thread.



posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by AlienView
 

"If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and the mind itself is controllable, what then?"

-George Orwell: 1984



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 10:47 PM
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RedPillPopper11
reply to post by AlienView
 

"If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and the mind itself is controllable, what then?"

-George Orwell: 1984

If you accept my premise on the nature of mind as the prime factor in all existence you will see that it is not controllable as it precedes concepts such as control - consciousness may be controllable but mind precedes consciousness and therefor can not be controlled by it. As long as mind exists as it has always existed the wheel will continue to spin and the dice will continue to roll - no one or group of beings will ever control an endlessly creating mind which is at the root of all that is.
-AlienView





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