Zuckerberg: Immigration 'one of biggest civil rights' issues of our time

reply to post by JohnnySasaki

Case in point : US Amnesty immigration bill is a civil rights battle. Civil rights can only be applied to those who are citizens. citizenship is what makes us civilians of that nation. Illegal's are not citizens of the US they are citizens of another country who illegally entered and now want to be treated as if they were here legally. and anyone no matter how educated they are is a idiot if they hold that view.

Another point: Obama hold degrees but he is an idiot when it comes to leading this nation.

Need I say more?

jacygirl
Get rid of all the borders...they are imaginary lines used to keep people separated.

All human beings on this earth require food, clean water, healthcare, education, shelter....who is to decide which people deserve these necessities...and which do not?

You are quite right of course, however rich people demand their economic interests are protected.

Without countries there would be no sovereign power to uphold land rights, property rights (including copyright protection) or to provide pensions and subsidised healthcare.

Crucially, without countries, there would be no way to take on more national debt in order to remunerate the investments of the rich when the banks fail.

Also, without countries, there would be no way to lend money to both sides of a war between countries, or to have one set of countries annexe the natural resources of another country, as with the invasion of Iraq.

I could go on, but in essence countries now serve to protect the economic interests of older and richer people, but when it comes to the economic interests of younger and poorer people, their jobs and livelihoods are now completely unprotected, because suddenly it's a 'global globe' and 'countries are just lines on a map' etc.

JohnnySasaki

ChesterJohn


It would seem that Mr Zuckerberg does not know what words mean.

I'm pretty sure they don't let people into Harvard without making sure they know what words mean first. Maybe you're misunderstanding what he mean't? Maybe he made a mistake? People do that.

As someone who IS in College right now and sharing space on campus with an instructor whose greatest claim to fame (written in grease pencil on his minivan windows) is being a "Harvard Educated Mathematician" for tutoring....I can say without doubt, Harvard DOES NOT mean someone is intelligent OR Educated. It means someone was ignorant enough to spend $40,000-$60,000 PER YEAR to get the same basic education that a State University delivers without the crappy accents and stuffy attitudes.

Assuming college equates to education, much less intelligence is one of the greatest and saddest misunderstandings I hear as a student myself. If only that were true....

reply to post by jacygirl


Taking down borders will not eliminate poverty nor will it guarantee prosperity.

You will always have the poor there is no eliminating that. The current US welfare system has not raised one person out of poverty it has made them dependent on the Govt for a house, food, clothing and education but they are still poor.

in the examples I gave of nations that eliminated political borders they still held to borders that still separated on part of the nation from another i.e. States, provinces etc... so even in open borders there are still borders that will not be eliminated.

It is best for those who can offer legal means of constitutional protection of the basic creator rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by a legal entrance so they may benefit of the system legally. Is it ok for a person to lie about their status in order to get more support from the Govt? i.e. welfare fraud.

If you are against welfare fraud what is the difference in allowing illegal's to become legal without following the legal procedures to do so? It is a form of fraud. It is best you go fight in their countries for a constitution that protects them in their own country so they don't have to commit illegal acts to get the benefits of a nation that does. To illegally enter a country to take advantage of those rights is nothing but fraud.

wemadetheworld

jacygirl
Get rid of all the borders...they are imaginary lines used to keep people separated.

All human beings on this earth require food, clean water, healthcare, education, shelter....who is to decide which people deserve these necessities...and which do not?

I could go on, but in essence countries now serve to protect the economic interests of older and richer people, but when it comes to the economic interests of younger and poorer people, their jobs and livelihoods are now completely unprotected, because suddenly it's a 'global globe' and 'countries are just lines on a map' etc.

Thank you!
I don't see a global globe yet though. I see human beings divided by colour, religion, gender, weight, looks, sports, education, standard of living.....etc. ad nauseum.
"...countries now serve to protect the economic interests of.." yep, you nailed it. It's the whole, "we look after our own" mentality. My mentality is that we are ALL our own. If this planet implodes, it takes all of us with it. Maybe 5 seconds before this happens, people will realize that we are all in this together.
Our most precious resource is not gold, bank accounts or Rolex watches. It is people.
jacygirl

Wrabbit2000

JohnnySasaki

ChesterJohn


It would seem that Mr Zuckerberg does not know what words mean.

I'm pretty sure they don't let people into Harvard without making sure they know what words mean first. Maybe you're misunderstanding what he mean't? Maybe he made a mistake? People do that.

As someone who IS in College right now and sharing space on campus with an instructor whose greatest claim to fame (written in grease pencil on his minivan windows) is being a "Harvard Educated Mathematician" for tutoring....I can say without doubt, Harvard DOES NOT mean someone is intelligent OR Educated. It means someone was ignorant enough to spend $40,000-$60,000 PER YEAR to get the same basic education that a State University delivers without the crappy accents and stuffy attitudes.

Assuming college equates to education, much less intelligence is one of the greatest and saddest misunderstandings I hear as a student myself. If only that were true....

Lol, I didn't say anything about the education one receives at Harvard (although it's well known that Harvard, as well as any other Ivy League school, is superior in education vs some community college. Sorry you don't know that.), I said they don't let people IN to Harvard without making sure they're somewhat intelligent.

What, you think you just walk up and knock on the door and they let you in? Lol. There's plenty of people who are willing to pay them 50 grand a year for their education. You have to be in the very top % of those people.

What's more, you conveniently didn't mention anything about how he became a billionaire in his early 20's whilst being an "idiot".

reply to post by ChesterJohn


Of course Zuckerburg wants more immigration .. he can pay them a fraction of what an American educated through our absurd college system would be asking for. Anytime the ultra wealthy, corporate leaders etc say they support open immigration, I know it's for the same reason they all support free trade: Money in their pockets.

reply to post by JohnnySasaki

Lol, I didn't say anything about the education one receives at Harvard (although it's well known that Harvard, as well as any other Ivy League school, is superior in education vs some community college. Sorry you don't know that.), I said they don't let people IN to Harvard without making sure they're somewhat intelligent.

Oh, I read your messages perfectly well. They came off as combative, rude and unbelievably arrogant to the Harvard mentality. I'm WELL AWARE of it, as I noted, I attend a school with that attitude by at least one Harvard Grad. It's ignorant, so is the guy displaying it and I have absolutely NO respect for people based soley on where they went to school.

Dropping names simply tells me someone is low class enough to think that way to start with.

Now the world has had some extremely successful people come out of Harvard. it also has some profoundly ignorant morons with Harvard as their educational facility of choice. (The White House has one in Office at the moment) The name, the school and the "education" offered there do not make someone attending any better than a community college grad.

In fact, having background from Harvard, Yale or one of the other Super-Elite universities generally has me considering 1 strike against someone right out the gate ...because that ugly attitude of superiority due to the name on the school's paperwork seems to be a basic element of orientation to attend them.

Zuckerberg is deluded if he thinks anyone cares about what he thinks.

reply to post by jacygirl


But what you're describing isn't natural. That will never happen, it hasn't in the past, and it doesn't happen in nature. Competition, ideology, and power will always exist. You can sit there and type all day long about how the world needs to be one, it all sounds good and all, but it's completely unrealistic.

How do you make every single person on this planet want the same thing, believe in the same thing, have the same needs (both personally and geographically), you can't!

You're trying to deny that evil exists, well I'm sorry but it does.

Borders are necessary to maintain a society. I'm not saying they will keep a society from destroying itself, all nations eventually crumble, it's only a matter of time. You just start the cycle over again.

Think of a family unit. People always care more about their family members than they would someone else down the street. People will always care more about their hometown than they will about a town on the opposite side of the country. That's life, that's nature - you are just a man, you don't control it.

Family is supposed to be the tightest bond a human being can have. You share blood, yet, there are fights in families all them time. If you can't keep a family perfectly together, how do you suppose we keep an entire planet together?

It's really common sense if your head isnt in the clouds.

suz62
Zuckerberg is deluded if he thinks anyone cares about what he thinks.

Please join in the conversation jab and run posts are not considerate to the over all topic discussion.

Plus remember when you signed up at ATS you signed an agreement not to post single sentence answers.

So in following with that:

Do you feel we should pass a bill allowing millions of illegals to be legal without filing the proper paperwork, background checks and pass the requirements that merit they be granted legal presence and all the rights that go with it?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


That entire comment reaks of butthurtedness. And you STILL failed to mention anything about his billionaire status. I suppose all billionaires are retards now too?

Lol, I don't even like Mark Zuckerberg (I even deleted my facebook account a few weeks ago) and I know he's not an idiot.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by JohnnySasaki

 

Lol, I didn't say anything about the education one receives at Harvard (although it's well known that Harvard, as well as any other Ivy League school, is superior in education vs some community college. Sorry you don't know that.), I said they don't let people IN to Harvard without making sure they're somewhat intelligent.

Oh, I read your messages perfectly well. They came off as combative, rude and unbelievably arrogant to the Harvard mentality. I'm WELL AWARE of it, as I noted, I attend a school with that attitude by at least one Harvard Grad. It's ignorant, so is the guy displaying it and I have absolutely NO respect for people based soley on where they went to school.

Dropping names simply tells me someone is low class enough to think that way to start with.

Now the world has had some extremely successful people come out of Harvard. it also has some profoundly ignorant morons with Harvard as their educational facility of choice. (The White House has one in Office at the moment) The name, the school and the "education" offered there do not make someone attending any better than a community college grad.

In fact, having background from Harvard, Yale or one of the other Super-Elite universities generally has me considering 1 strike against someone right out the gate ...because that ugly attitude of superiority due to the name on the school's paperwork seems to be a basic element of orientation to attend them.

Yet perhaps our nations actually need to have flagship Academic Institutions. In the U.S that is Harvard, Yale, etc. In the U.K we have Oxford and Cambridge.

Honestly, I think the reasoning behind it is more to do with having flagship institutions that promote a nation's academic standard of excellence. It has to do with cultural and national identity. It's not Marxism, but I think it works better at inspiring constant innovation and evolution in education. Harvard, Yale, Oxford and Cambridge are world class and rank among the most prestigious academic institutions in the world. Surely, that is something the U.S should feel proud about.

reply to post by ChesterJohn


I would think it's your interpretation that's wrong. He's saying it's one of our issues because illegal immigration is infringing on civilians rights. That's how I read it. I think him admitting hiring illegals is pretty funny, though, considering his first line.

reply to post by ChesterJohn

Taking down borders will not eliminate poverty nor will it guarantee prosperity.

Hmm, what created it? You know, before borders. Before borders there were smaller communities, nations, some even being sovereign.

But then we had the Roman Empire, a few other Empires, and Colonialism. But why were all these borders created, or breached, or destroyed, or rewritten.

Ah, because of resources!

So one could argue that by taking down a border you are opening up the "floodgates to immigration" but the floodgates were opened the day settlers, or armies, or corporate interests came into some oblivious place and decided they wanted to exploit their resources. Hell, the people in these places had no idea what the outside world was, or wanted no part in it.

A sovereign nation used to mean it ran under its own power, that it had its own rule of law. But with the current state of things nearly every country is manipulated through monetary policies (banking) which, got rid of that nasty Colonialism. Made it appear that everyone had their own country to go home to, but in reality, the difference between the "1st world" and "3rd world" is the difference of an arbitrary line where the benefactors say, "You work for us when you are on that side of the line".

So yes, people want to cross the line. Borders are the difference of making a couple dollars a day, to many dollars an hour. But it is not as if these places were given the opportunity to progress on their own. (They had resources people needed!).

The world is overpopulated, there are not enough resources, and whatever system is put in place you can be sure there will be winners and losers.

Try positing the option of letting everyone just go back to their own place in the world and stop interfering with each other, it won't be a popular idea.

reply to post by ChesterJohn


I agree with M.Z. The rush is on for getting the best deal for life. People naturally will seek out the strongest economies and resources wherever they happen to be. The U.S is one of those countries, too, and is very appealing in terms of jobs, wages, education, housing and health care for many who live in countries with much less resources.

Best to keep a healthy check and not sink the ship with all the goodies, lol! Though it appears those who make the decisions know that a certain amount of immigrant new blood is healthy in the work force and beneficial to the economy. I am sure the authorities would come down hard on it if it was really costing them.

reply to post by Revolution9


Yes but do it legally one who pays the price best appreciates what they get as a benefit. But those who cross illegally take from everybody else without any personal cost.

reply to post by boncho

So yes, people want to cross the line. Borders are the difference of making a couple dollars a day, to many dollars an hour. But it is not as if these places were given the opportunity to progress on their own.

Did you know that illegal immigrants work for less wages than the current US market offers for that same job?

there are opportunities in their own countries as many US corporations have moved their facilities of manufacturing south of our border. they are paid as you say a few dollars a day that is why the company moved there for higher PROFIT and less cost.

Many of the Illegals in the US today are not only taking jobs away from hungry Americans but are also applying for assistance from our Govt such as welfare, food stamps, and even health insurance.

So you see it is not just about jobs but about milking the US system of which they have no legal right too.

ChesterJohn
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Yes but do it legally one who pays the price best appreciates what they get as a benefit. But those who cross illegally take from everybody else without any personal cost.

Yes, of course, if we are to agree like M.W that it is the number one world pressing social concern for the nations most affected then it should be monitored and administered according to legislation. The legislation in the U.S is all there it seems, but not heavily enforced right now. I just get the sneaky feeling that somehow it is working in the favour of the wealth gatherers who run the show. Since it is all wealth related I am led to believe that they are making more money by letting the illegal ones enter. Somehow it is benefitting the economy. Of course, the welfare issue is a price to pay, but I think "they" see it as a minimal expense compared to the profit that illegal immigrant workforces create; just that old term CHEAP LABOUR.

May I ask what your concern is regarding the influx of illegal immigrants into the U.S? Do you see it as somehow making your nation a worse place? There are many relatives to work through in this very important debate that does concern us all in the wealthier nations.

reply to post by ChesterJohn


Passing the bill wouldn't help any of them get any better jobs. Most have job and pull benefits from the nation already through loop holes already. While they might get more they might also lose more and if a sizable about join up that’ll just thin out even more what is going around to them.

On a personal note I don’t care for it since my mother’s side of the family has come over the right way. Filled out all the paperwork, found jobs and paid all the fees and dues which come with becoming a citizen, it ends up being a kick in the teeth to have it just handed to someone else. If they maybe paid back all the costs of becoming a citizen I’d feel better about it but in the end it wouldn’t. Cause it wouldn’t account for the time and effort that goes in to as well from the person applying and anyone that is helping them.


We don’t nations we have clubs. All clubs have their little tree house (territories) and everyone in the club pitches in and pays their dues (taxes) and help out. Some are lucky and have an easy in to the club because they know someone in it (born citizens) others have to be judged by the club members be for their let in (immigrating citizens). Clubs are clubs due to the fact they are exclusive is one since or another. I couldn't break this down even more but I'd end up with a wall of text.