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Ehrman Debunked.

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posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 


So how do those twelve animals speak for the entire animal kingdom which includes millions of species?

Do those twelve animals understand the concept of marriage? Do they hold ceremonies and sign papers in order to consummate a marriage? No, they just go with the natural flow, they do not let traditions keep them from doing what they were made to do. No money or attorney to get married or divorced? No problem for them because they have no understanding of those human concepts.

Yes, marriage is a human concept and tradition. There is no doubt about that.
edit on 22-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


Oh! So humans are set apart from other animals? What sets us apart from them




posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 


We are pretty much the only animals who procreate, face to face...



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


So when a person dies, are they divorced from their spirit?

I know, another metaphysical wrangling...ok, human construct thought mindbender, since you use human words, show us the proof of the divorce other than the person just being dead.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 


What sets those twelve animals you mentioned apart exactly?

There are lots of things that set every animal apart from the others. We are not somehow more special than other animals. In fact, I'd say we are less special since we have the propensity to drop bombs on entire cities, slaughter thousands of innocent people in wars, and use chemical weapons on one another.

I'd say our negative attributes set us apart more than our positive ones by far.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


They are not divorced from the Spirit, they are divorced from their body. The Spirit is no longer connected to the body, which is why their body is "dead".

What other proof is needed that the Spirit is divorced from their body other than their body no longer being animated by the Spirit? Their is no longer the flow of blood, so the Spirit is no longer married to that particular body. I have a feeling you are just being stubborn and looking for a reason to disagree, no matter what the reason is.

Luckily though, as soon as their body dies, they are put into another vessel and the marriage of the body and spirit is once again consummated, a new Son of God is created.
edit on 22-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 


I never said you wanted to live under a corrupt government. What I'm saying is that you submit to it because your book says to do so, a book legalized and put together by the very people who ran the government the book says to submit to. That is a conflict of interest, one you choose to ignore out of fear.

If you do nothing to stop the government then what makes you any better than those agnostics and atheists? If you submit to the government like your book tells you to, how are you not working in their favor as well? How is their agenda not your agenda?

By the way, I'm not atheist or agnostic. I've already stated numerous times that I believe in God, so I don't know why you keep implying that I am atheist or agnostic.
edit on 22-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



The answer is right there, they fabricated the second coming so that they could do whatever they wanted for thousands of years until everything is bled dry. It's so obvious.


Yup. And it hasn't been all that long that 'the Second Coming' was contrived into "the rapture."

But people are still kowtowing to those dogmas...."if I just behave and suffer long enough without resorting to self-defense, I'll be okay."

It's so sad. In my agnostic opinion, perhaps the "Second Coming" is the NEW AGE THINKING - the Age of Aquarius....
we who look to that 'flavor' see lots of connections....
We are now beginning to understand Quantum stuff,

we are now realizing that the Golden Rule is Universal.

We are now seeing how the Abrahamic faiths do not promote universal Golden Rule.

Those of us who want to change things are told that "it will never happen, because the Bible says this and people are flawed", by those who do nothing to investigate how it MIGHT change, if everyone GOT ON BOARD...
ugh

it's such a defeatist attitude.

Anyway, cheers, man.




edit on 11/22/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 



Mine happens to be that I very young, and have no power to do anything about what the government chooses to do, and I would say you are doing absolutely nothing to stop the government and your not Christian, so maybe the atheist/agnostic agenda is that of the governments....


Wow. So, you are a real conspiracy theorist. Okay then. (Ya shoulda said so earlier
)

When you typed "I very young", and about having no power.....

may I inquire as to your age and circumstances???

Believe me, there ARE those of us trying to change things.....maybe it's the atheist/agnostic NEW Age agenda is that of FREEDOM, EQUALITY, and DIGNITY for all?

Yep. That's it. We "New Agers" are fighting for the oppressed. We SEE what can be done to right things...
but we are shot down, labelled, smeared as commie pigs/money grabbing socialist drones/fascists,

because we want EVERYONE to have enough to eat. It can be done......

the only thing stopping it is conservative, religious money, and the continued numbing of the 'masses' via outdated doctrine and FEAR. (And then there are the politicians....)

Anyway....
how old are you?



edit on 11/22/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


There's a sucker in every crowd..isn't that what Barnum said?

Never give a sucker an even break....who said that?

You want to know how these conspiracy theorists come up with ideas? Here's my thread on creating a conspiracy theory....My Titanic Conspiracy Theory

The point is, ServantoftheLamb, don't be a sucker, you'll get taken advantage of. You do have power to stand against what the government is doing, you don't have to become a member of OWS or the Tea Party to stand against it. You have the power to ensure freedom of speech (saying what you want), freedom of religious expression (believing what you want) and freedom of press (posting what you want).

But what you cannot do is force people to try to see it your way. But on the other hand, you have to defend those who have the same rights as you. Wildtimes, AfterInfinity, Akragon and I are one opposites of the religious fence, but at no time can any of us force the others.

Yes, they are going to disagree with your Christianity, and yes, that's been around a long time. But at the same time, you are going to disagree with their worldviews as well. But it isn't going to help if you fall back onto self-defeatism. This is a forum for discussions and debates. And I encourage you, don't post about things that you have limited knowledge of. Yes, they are going to point out the flaws. I even point out flaws. And they point out my flaws, but the difference between me and you is that I know a little something of their position.

You do have power, the government is not in control of your mind. So don't give the government any more credit than it deserves or even warrants.

If you have a theological question, ask an older Christian that is wise, smart and not going to feed you an agenda. That's why WarmInIndy does not make doctrinal stances from particular creeds. Be like WarminIndy, understand that not all churches teach the same thing, and that not all people are going to believe you.

Anyway, carry on. Didn't meant to thread divert.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I must say my friend you've come a long way from the person that called me a predator LOL

Im starting to enjoy your posts even if I don't always agree with you


edit on 22-11-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



Wildtimes, AfterInfinity, Akragon and I are one opposites of the religious fence, but at no time can any of us force the others.

Yes, they are going to disagree with your Christianity, and yes, that's been around a long time. But at the same time, you are going to disagree with their worldviews as well. But it isn't going to help if you fall back onto self-defeatism. This is a forum for discussions and debates. And I encourage you, don't post about things that you have limited knowledge of. Yes, they are going to point out the flaws. I even point out flaws. And they point out my flaws, but the difference between me and you is that I know a little something of their position.


Hug to you, ma'am. Or, curtsy, ...or whatever. Handshake. (Cheers?...!!!)

Yes, you are correct, and I hope that Servant can see that.

Nevertheless, I'm not so sure we are all four "opposites" at all.

Here's how I see it:
You are a Christian mystic.
Akragon is a person who believes in what Jesus said (the Golden Rule above all),
AfterInfinity is an atheistic agnostic.
I am a theistic agnostic.

Those aren't opposites....
they are 'corners'. Now, we add in, say, 3NL - or Charles, or FlyersFan, or windword, or Cuervo, Revelation Generation....pick one....and we have......
oh dear, a pentagon!! *ee gads*

Then.....we realize that we are ALL on the right path (for our respective selves) and draw a circle around the 5-pointed star:

PENTACLE.

I saw your post about having a revelation about Mary...congratulations.

lol!
Ask your brother.



edit on 11/22/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


LOL, I know what a pentacle is...

Hey get the sixth one and we could work on the Magen David? Hmm, what do you think?

You should have seen the 90 year-old Christian lady last night, her chin dropped to the floor when I said she was invited to the next Passover seder meal. I'm not Jewish by religion, but I pay homage to my recent ancestors who were. I find meaning in it.

My brother, BTW, did not go to Kokomo last Sunday like he normally does. This time he actually listened to what tells him what to do, and he was spared.

Maybe my prayers have something to do with it or maybe he just chose to listen to the good voice? Anyway, he stayed home, safely out of danger. But he could have been in Kokomo because it is his habit to go visit friends on Sunday there.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





It's so sad. In my agnostic opinion, perhaps the "Second Coming" is the NEW AGE THINKING - the Age of Aquarius....


For sure! I think this is the most plausible explanation for what the second coming represents. Some astronomers believe the Age of Pisces began at the beginning of the first century, which happens to coincide with Jesus' birth. Pisces' sign is the fish.



Matthew 4
19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.


Jesus says to Simon and Andrew that if they follow him he will make them fishers of men. This is at the very beginning of Jesus' ministry, in fact it is the FIRST thing he says in the gospels after starting his ministry. This lines up with the age of Pisces perfectly, because Pisces if the age of the fish.



Matthew 28
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


This is the LAST thing that Jesus says before he is taken up to heaven. Again, it deals with an age, the end of the Age of Pisces in my opinion.

Funny that the first and last things Jesus says during his ministry have to do with astronomical ages isn't it? Paganism anyone?



Luke 22
10 He replied, “As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters


Jesus tells his disciples to follow a man with a jar full of water. This has to do with the Age of Aquarius, whose sign is a man with a jar full of water. This is right before Judas betrays Jesus.

I believe that the beginning of Pisces was the beginning of an age of enlightenment, which is why there were so many persecutions of Christians by the Roman empire. People had woken up and they saw what was happening to them, how they were being blinded and used.

I believe the second coming may be starting now, in the sense that people are beginning to wake up to the corruption of the world and that religion deceives us. I believe people are beginning to "follow the man with the jar of water", where the new astrological age of Aquarius is beginning and this new astrological age somehow wakes people up to what is happening to the world around them.

I believe that Jesus could have actually just been a list of sayings that the Romans picked up while persecuting these Christians in the first century. They took these saying and compiled them into a story about one man walking around the middle east back in the day, when in fact it was a movement that sprung up led by many people, not just one. They compiled these saying and created a historically fictional story centered around pagan themes with one man as its centerpiece.

I believe we are moving into another age of enlightenment, and I fear what will happen to those who are awake. Will they be persecuted like those Christians were back in the day? Probably, but death is only the first step into the next life, so there is no need to fear it.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



I believe we are moving into another age of enlightenment, and I fear what will happen to those who are awake. Will they be persecuted like Christians were back in the day? Probably, but death is only the first step into the next life, so there is no need to fear it.

Yes. It has been ongoing for about .... mmmmm...

WAY longer than last century.

People have been struggling to get out from under the hammer for a long time.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 07:40 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 


I never said you wanted to live under a corrupt government. What I'm saying is that you submit to it because your book says to do so, a book legalized and put together by the very people who ran the government the book says to submit to. That is a conflict of interest, one you choose to ignore out of fear.

If you do nothing to stop the government then what makes you any better than those agnostics and atheists? If you submit to the government like your book tells you to, how are you not working in their favor as well? How is their agenda not your agenda?

By the way, I'm not atheist or agnostic. I've already stated numerous times that I believe in God, so I don't know why you keep implying that I am atheist or agnostic.
edit on 22-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


Thats great. Which God? Just Curious. Sorry for making assumptions. My point was friend that none of us are doing anything to stop them(Not just Christians).

"a book legalized and put together by the very people who ran the government the book says to submit to. That is a conflict of interest, one you choose to ignore out of fear."
Constantine's government is the same government as the United States? Explain that a little better.

And no I do not submit to authorities because of Romans 13. Romans 13 says if you love thy neighbor you will fulfill the law.




posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 07:50 PM
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wildtimes
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 



Mine happens to be that I very young, and have no power to do anything about what the government chooses to do, and I would say you are doing absolutely nothing to stop the government and your not Christian, so maybe the atheist/agnostic agenda is that of the governments....


Wow. So, you are a real conspiracy theorist. Okay then. (Ya shoulda said so earlier
)

When you typed "I very young", and about having no power.....

may I inquire as to your age and circumstances???

Believe me, there ARE those of us trying to change things.....maybe it's the atheist/agnostic NEW Age agenda is that of FREEDOM, EQUALITY, and DIGNITY for all?

Yep. That's it. We "New Agers" are fighting for the oppressed. We SEE what can be done to right things...
but we are shot down, labelled, smeared as commie pigs/money grabbing socialist drones/fascists,

because we want EVERYONE to have enough to eat. It can be done......

the only thing stopping it is conservative, religious money, and the continued numbing of the 'masses' via outdated doctrine and FEAR. (And then there are the politicians....)

Anyway....
how old are you?



edit on 11/22/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


Everyone has a typo now and then especially on a forum, but I am 20. No problem stating that.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 


When Paul wrote Romans 13 the rulers were those of Rome, the same Rome that eventually legalized Christianity and put the book of Romans into the bible.

You're not grasping my point apparently. Rome was extremely corrupt and at the time of Romans 13 being written, the Roman empire was persecuting Christians, throwing them to the lions, having them burned on the stake, crucifying them, and dismembering them while still alive.



Romans 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.


Read the highlighted parts very carefully. It is talking about the Roman rulers because they are the ones who were in power at the time of this epistle being written.

So basically this passage is saying that god established Rome as a governing authority and that the Roman government was god's agent for the people's good who held no terror for those who did right and only brought wrath and bore their sword upon those who did wrong, and that it is necessary to submit to them because rebelling against them is to rebel against what god has established, and rebelling against them was to bring judgement on themselves.

So were those Christians that the Roman government persecuted wrongdoers since wrath was brought down upon them? Did they do something wrong for the authorities to bear their swords against them? Did your god establish the Roman government in order to kill his own people?

If the authorities were agents of good to bring wrath upon the wrongdoer, then why was Paul supposedly beheaded under the reign of Emperor Nero? Was Paul a wrongdoer? Why would he say the authorities were god's agents for his good when they ended up cutting his head off? What wrong did he do in order for them to kill him and persecute Christians for 300 years?

Not only does this passage not apply to today's world, it didn't even apply at the time of it being written. That has to make you wonder, right? I doubt it.

The passage clearly says that submission to the authorities is necessary. So how exactly is the passage not about submission to authorities. The passage is even called "Submission to Governing Authorities".

You're confusing this passage with the passage directly after it called "Love Fulfills the Law".

It's almost as if they decided to put in a palate cleanser to somehow justify the passage before it. Almost like, "See this: love fulfills the law? Yeah, this justifies what came directly before it about submitting to authority. Focus on this and ignore what came before." Guess what, that's exactly what you're doing, ignoring it because you know it is not true.
edit on 22-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 08:31 PM
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All of this is life/experience happening.

We are all a part of The Existence.

Age of Aquarius:
"I Know", but what do we know with absolute certainty?


I AM a part of The Existence as are all things.


Even an idea (fantasy/dream/belief) is a thing.

Truth/Wisdom is knowing it is all connected.


Did Jesus do this or that,? Jesus IS EXISTING along with all other things/existences, physical or nor physical



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 10:31 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1

Quantum physics do not apply to our level of reality, which is why things are so weird at the quantum level.


Incorrect.The physical realm is exactly where the laws of quantum physics apply.


3NL1GHT3N3D1
Jesus performed his miracles in this level of reality, meaning quantum physics couldn't have had a part in it in my opinion.


Quantum physics is the physical realms "shadow reflection" of the reality of the spirit realm...The Kingdom of God.Yahoshua did things called "miracles" that were of the Kingdom of God IN his heavens .The physical realm quantum physics is an image of the reality of The Kingdom of God realm.Yahoshua was the "image" of the Father in the physical realm.Yahoshua was/is in both realms simultaneously.(neither here nor there but in the midst of both)


3NL1GHT3N3D1
By the way, everything has already been married. Your body is married to your Spirit, this is heaven, this is the kingdom right here.


Incorrect.The body is animated by spirit that IS a living soul.That is the physical realm life.The physical realm is not "heaven" ...there is no "place" that is "heaven" that's religious doctrine of men.The spirit of man IS the "heavens"that is what God breathed into man.Breath means spirit not the physical breath of air in our lungs.The Kingdom of God is not "on" earth.That isn't what Yahoshua meant when he said the Kingdom of God is in your midst.He explained to the pharisees what it was.The kingdom of God comes (is) not by observation it is neither here nor there but it is (will be) IN your midst.

The Kingdom of God is (will be) in the midst of the spirit of man that was given/formed/ created by the creator God.That is the "marriage(metaphor).The term zygote(the beginning stage of an embryo) comes from the Greek word ζυγωτός meaning yoke...to join together.Yahoshua explained this in the parable of the soils and the seed.

Man is the soil(ovum/egg),Yahoshua is the seed(spermatozoon).Yahoshua "descended"from "the heavens" into the physical realm and was sown (through death) into the soil to produce zygotes.Yahoshua is causing(it's a process not an event) the marriage of the physical realm to the spirit realm.Every person goes through the stages of the "soil" and is either in the ovum/egg stage and hasn't been yoked yet,(the wayside soil) a zygote(rocky soil), an embryo(thistles and thorns soil), or a fetus(fertile soil).When they are "born"into the Kingdom Of God the Kingdom is in their heavens..in their midst..spirit.

Of course this is all a metaphor...a shadow image of reality "mirrored" in the physical realm by physical birth.Yahoshua is the only one already "born".He was born into and lived in the physical realm and lived in it and the spirit realm simultaneously because Yahoshua is the ONLY begotten Son of God.The seed of God.He clearly stated I and the Father are "1".Again it is a metaphor of the shadow of reality.That shadow is in math(signs)...specifically the Fibonacci number(Fn) sequence.
Fn0=0
Fn1=1
Fn2=1

The sum of 2 adjacent sequential Fn= a 3rd Fn

Fn0+Fn1=Fn2
0+1=1
Fn1=1=God the Father
Fn2=1=God the Son

They are equal.They are one.The unity.They are "both" "1".As Yahoshua said the Father is greater(came first)...and the Father did Fn1=1.

This calculation only "sums"(fulfilled) once.Yahoshua is the ONLY begotten(summed) Son of the Father.Everything is "created through" the Son.

Fn1+Fn2=Fn3
1+1=2
Fn3=2

Fn2+Fn3=Fn4
1+2=3
Fn4=3

Fn3+Fn4=Fn5
2+3=5
etc etc to infinity.Everything in the physical realm grows this way because it is the shadow mirror of the spirit realm.


3NL1GHT3N3D1
Yes, we are God in the flesh by the fact that we exist, and existence is a miracle in itself.


Absolutely incorrect.Mankind is NOT God in the flesh.You have said numerous times in this post you don't believe anything until you can see it proved.I know for a fact you can't prove you or any of the "we's" are "God in the flesh" no matter how much you believe you are.That flys in complete contradiction to your belief you have stated many times in this thread ... that miracles can't happen because they break the law of physics.

What you are purporting breaks every law there is in all realms.A tadpole may grow to be a frog by a natural process of growth but a dandelion doesn't because they are a different kinds of life.The creator God breathed life into mankind just as God breathed life into everything but that does not make everything the same kind of life or especially not Gods life.You are not the creator God nor ever will be.You are not the Son of God nor will you ever be nor will anybody else.Only Yahoshua is the Son of God and has always been.The belief that mankind is God in the flesh could not be further from the truth.


3NL1GHT3N3D1
Jesus was pointing out what we all are, not just himself. Religion has hidden that fact, even from you.


No the facts of the truth are not hidden from me .I have no beliefs of religion at all to blind me.Mankind will "be" the children of God.Some of mankind(very, very, very, very, very, few...12 to be exact) will be the "adopted" heirs..the sons of God (the apostles) however no one but Yahoshua is the only begotten Son of God.

None of mankind has been born yet.All of mankind is "asleep" in the womb of the earth(the physical realm).They are "dreaming of life" but have not "entered" it yet.No one can do it under their own effort just as they were not conceived and born in the physical realm under their own effort. Mankinds perception of reality (the Kingdom of God) is nil.They are in the valley of the shadow of death.However ..All of mankind WILL be born anew into the Kingdom of God and it will enter their heavens. ...however the creator God does EVERYTHING.Mankind only receives.


edit on 22-11-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 


What do you see as you read and post on this forum? You see an image. What is that image full of? Light. What does your image light up? The world. So what is your image? It is the light of the world.

You are your image, meaning you are the light of the world. You are created in the image of God and that image is yours. Look into a mirror, that is being created in the image of God, that is you being created in your own image, the image that you see. You are the image of the invisible God just as Jesus was.

You are the only begotten Son of God, as is everyone else because we all share the same image, that of the universe around us. If two people look at a painting, they are sharing the image of God, if a thousand people all look at the moon, they are sharing the image of God, because we are all the only begotten Son (image) of God. You see the Son everyday because you ARE the Son of God, because you have the image of God.

You may not adhere to any certain religious doctrine, but you have still let its teachings blind you to the truth. The Son is the image of God, you posses that image and it is yours. Everything is One, including us, meaning we are all the ONE Son, which is the image that you see and are.

Yes, we most definitely are God in the flesh. We are the image, we are the Son, we are the Word made flesh.
edit on 22-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



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