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U.S. should copy Switzerland and consider a 'maximum wage' ratio, too

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posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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This got me thinking. The way around this would be for a company to hire subcontractors that manage lower level employees, keeping only execs on the company payroll.

My questions, if implemented:

What would happen to the excess profit, since it cannot be used to pay execs?

Does that money "belong" to one or more people (owners/shareholders), and would it be distributed to them?

I'm really just trying to think of who might benefit from such regulations. Would there still be a small group of individuals making more than the lowest paid employees by margins similar to what the CEOs are being denied?




posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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The primary fundamental problem with Capitalism is that money always finds it way into the hands of the few who don't want to let it go. There is finite money in the system, and its supposed to go around in circulation to anywhere its needed. However, in practice, the money becomes trapped in savings accounts of the few and most likely never to see the light of day again. In other words, really rich folks are like black holes of cash. The accumulation of cash allows them to pull in even more cash and thus the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Thats why they keep injecting the system with more money, because it keeps disappearing into these black hole accounts that are nothing more than the hoarding of cash. And the more money that goes in to replace the money not being spent, the more worthless it becomes. Thats why taxes are important, its supposed to rip free some of this cash and return it to the system. But this system is hopelessly broken with all the rules geared toward the rich to help them keep the money they're not even trying to use.

A maximum wage is nice but wouldn't work. The rich will still just save vast amounts of money but at a slower rate and the black holes of cash will still bleed the system dry of money again. The answer would be to cap savings for the wealthy. Anything they have over that amount must be spent on something within the system to return the cash so someone else can earn it and put it to use. The money must always flow.

Its like someone having more food than they can eat while others starve, its a waste.

You can still have a tiered social order where people can move up and down the social ranks between rich and poor, but capping the total savings of the top people in the system will prevent a hoarding mentality endemic to the upper class. Also, it would keep those high earners working and productive as they would have to earn to maintain a particular level of savings even if it was the maximum. The side effect would be that people from rich families would be forced to work for their own selves because a capped savings likely wouldn't be shared with them from the person who earned it, and hence, no more idle rich who piss people off anyways.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


12 times the lowest paid worker? That might make sense, maybe. But what if the lowest paid worker lives in Zimbabwe and earns the equivalent of 30 pennies per month? So does this mean the CEO cannot make more than 360 pennies per month?

I think all this will do is push the most successful people into the richest most developed countries and starve the poorer countries of skilled workers, since their salary in those poor countries will be capped too low to be practical.

The key problem is education and skill level between countries is not equal. Workers across the world are not equal. A bushman in a south american jungle probably couldn't even earn a penny a day, since they're unlikely to leave their jungle and interact with others outside. The average american probably has had or has seen all varieties of hand held computer devices. Can't say the same for the bushman. Because there're these gaps between workers across the world, any attempt to equalize it without addressing the fundamentals is doomed to fail.

Think about this... It's not so bad to make 12 times more than the lowest paid worker if the lowest paid worker just happens to be Einstein or Bill Gates. It's not so bad to make 12 times more than the lowest paid worker if you live in a lavish technologically developed country that showers you with wonder and luxury at every step. Hell, if an alien offered me to live in a ultra advanced society where my every need could be met and yet told me I wouldn't make any money, I'd probably take the offer because all the money in the world is worthless if all it buys you is a shaman's stone glyph or a special brand of tobacco wrapped neatly for smoking and yet it can't even buy you a simple surgery to repair a broken finger or an aspirin for a headache.
edit on 21-11-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)


(post by wildtimes removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by jonnywhite
 



12 times the lowest paid worker? That might make sense, maybe. But what if the lowest paid worker lives in Zimbabwe and earns the equivalent of 30 pennies per month? So does this mean the CEO cannot make more than 360 pennies per month?

Good point. See, in my version of utopia, no one is struggling, all receive the benefits of the sum of the product they contribute to producing.

Off-shoring would not work in this scenario, without a 'minimum wage' that is global.

So, I'm thinking it means no off-shoring. Or, if off-shoring is undertaken, the employees in Bangladesh make just as much as those in the USA. A ratio is not the same as a bottom-line/spread sheet profit margin that exploits the cheapest labor while the profits all go to the filthy-rich executive.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by CAPT PROTON
 


Bravo, cap'n!!
Bravo. Thank you for posting this astute summation of the solution being proposed, and the reality of the problem.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:06 PM
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There have been many people throughout history that have espoused the idea of the redistribution of wealth..

Joseph Stalin
Mao Zedong
Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il

I guess it did not work out well for any of them.. Why?

Because it is quite simply this

One person limiting the success of another.. The drone state.

Of what use is there to work as hard as you can in a wealth redistribution state, knowing that once you reach the "cap" some other person has imposed, your money goes to those not willing to work as hard as you?

I am moderately successful... Let me make it more clear.... I am moderately successful in a career where success is extremely difficult.. Law Enforcement and Security.. How did I do it?

I worked 2 and even 3 jobs while attending night school to advance my degrees and my career. Worked my butt off to attain a position of respect in my state and to reap the rewards of those labors.. Now I make what some would call "too much money"...

THEY CAN KISS MY BUTT

"I" worked for this
"I" sacrificed for years while raising 2 children
"I" studied, worked and studied some more

Now someone wants to tell me my money should go to someone else?

HOW INSANE IS THAT???????

I know lazy people.. They do not deserve what I have
I know people that have made bad decisions.. They do not deserve what I have
I know people that have made poor life choices.. They do not deserve what I have

Wealth redistribution is one of the most tried, tested and failed societal experiments throughout history..

Heck if you like the concept, check and see if you can move to Cuba.. We wont miss you here

Semper
edit on 11/21/2013 by semperfortis because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:12 PM
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Corporation are regulated by laws which supposedly we the people make. So lets start out by having them pay their share of taxes, cut out the loophole allowing them to outsource, make them pay fair wages and regulating the ceos wages. If they do as in Arizona and boycott well get the hell out of our country and allow small biz to flourish. For those of you crying about how hard you have worked to make a profit were not talking about your mama papa operation. Were talking about big corp america and their heist of our middle class American wealth. Yes we the people deserve to live the life our grandparents fought and paid for.....



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 



Wealth redistribution is one of the most tried, tested and failed societal experiments throughout history..

And this country is going the way of the Roman Empire. Headed for collapse under the 'capital hoarding' scheme that is our current tried, tested, and FAILING social experiments.

Congratulations on your achievements, semper. I, too, worked my way through college, worked in the trenches, earned a reputation, and was embraced as a 'leader' teaching others about what I'd learned the hard way. I am not wealthy. No one says I make too much money. I don't make ANY money. But I still have the skills, and apply them to my daily life.

I have not only worked in the trenches, I have seen the consequences of extreme poverty that the capitalist system creates. Neither system is correct. We need a new, hybrid version of it.

The most peaceful and comfortable countries in the world include ALL of the Scandinavian states. Canada as well. Belgium, Switzerland, and New Zealand are in the top 10 as well. ALL Scandinavian countries are set up as social-democracies. Switzerland is the one proposing this idea. Switzerland is also known as a tax haven.

travel.amerikanki.com...

Go figure.
edit on 11/21/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:18 PM
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after the war until late 1960 middle class America flourished. Then unregulation began. Since then the class has gotten smaller and poorer. So please stop the propaganda machine.....



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:20 PM
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Asktheanimals
reply to post by beezzer
 


There is no freedom of speech for companies that market cigarettes.
Yet they extract more revenue per dollar from cigarettes than any other product.

It seems to me our government is socialism for the rich and corporations and capitalism for everyone else.
Free market my backside.


If you think about it, it really is socialism for the rich and their corporations.

Just the basic fact that corporations get taxed on their profit whereas people get taxed on their income should tell the right wingers something.

If they weren't right wingers, of course.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:32 PM
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Something like this needs to be done. The rich are sucking all the wealth out of western economies and pumping it to offshore in tax havens. It should be circulating within the economy, stimulating growth, which can only happen if that wealth is spent rather than languishing in tax free accounts.

My thought would be tax companies according to the ratio within that company. The bigger the ratio the higher the tax. I would also link tax to gross margin and get rid of the obscene practise of bucketing (ie hiding from taxman) money into nonsensical tax free allowances and offsets. A company I worked for years ago mysteriously increased it's pre tax R&D budget by a hundred fold. We all wondered if the lab was floating in space ! cos it wasn't on the ground !

Gross margin has to apply to the country where the sales and income occurs which is quite clearly the one where the tax liability lies not in some remote country with a lone worker that "handles" billions of receipts.....obscene.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


While i get your 'work hard if you want to achieve' attitude, i don't get your other points.

In Switzerland nobody has to work 3 jobs, just to pay your life and education. Minimum wages are good enough to get through. And with your story i guess you are with all the achievement still far away from the salaries that would be capped.

Those are more the likes of the CEOs and Banksters. Such as Vasella who got about 20millions swiss francs a year.

I basically like the idea of the 1:12. But there are quite a lot of obstacles, like mentionend before: loopholes as in outsourcing, different companies for the high player and the lower paid incomes work at another company (for company one).
Or businesses just move to another country.

So i guess it will not get the votes, but its a good base to discuss the subject of income inequality.


and the inequality is staggering:



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Like I said, some people spend too much time counting other peoples money.

If you think you are worth more than you earn now, prove it and see to it you are paid that. If your estimated worth reflects reality, you should have little trouble being paid what you are worth.

If you want to be paid more, become more valuable. Talent and skill always finds work.

If you want to earn what a CEO earns, do the work a CEO does, don't just stand there with your hand out.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by TheWrightWing
 


If you think you are worth more than you earn now, prove it and see to it you are paid that. If your estimated worth reflects reality, you should have little trouble being paid what you are worth.

If you want to be paid more, become more valuable. Talent and skill always finds work.

Um, no. Talent and skill don't always find work. And MANY talented and skilled people are looking for work in their fields...but are reduced to taking orders at McDonalds because they are "seniors", or their companies have "down-sized" or "out-sourced" the jobs. Or, the programs that people were working at social-service jobs within were cancelled (many of them 501c3 outfits), or the schools were closed. Why are the humanities so undervalued these days?

Or, it's 'cheaper' to hire greenhorn college grads than keeping a tenured, skilled, mature professional around.

This world isn't at all how you paint it. There are MILLIONS of professionals out of work these days. Or, perhaps you don't live in the USA?



edit on 11/21/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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This is from 2.5 years ago:
Can Manhood Survive the Recession?
THIS IS THE REAL WORLD for those over 45.

Brian Goodell, of Mission Viejo, Calif., won two gold medals in the 1976 Olympics. An all-American, God-fearing golden boy, he segued into a comfortable career in commercial real estate. Until 2008, when he was laid off. As a 17-year-old swimmer, he set two world records. As a 52-year-old job hunter, he’s drowning.

Brock Johnson, of Philadelphia, was groomed at Harvard Business School and McKinsey & Co., and was so sure of his marketability that he resigned in 2009 as CEO of a Fortune 500 company without a new job in hand. Johnson, who asked that his real name not be used, was certain his BlackBerry would be buzzing off its holster with better offers. At 48, he’s still unemployed.

Two coasts. Two men who can’t find jobs. And one defining moment for the men in the gray flannel suits who used to run this country. Or at least manage it.

Capitalism has always been cruel to its castoffs, but those blessed with a college degree and blue-chip résumé have traditionally escaped the worst of it. In recessions past, they’ve kept their jobs or found new ones as easily as they might hail a cab or board the 5:15 to White Plains. But not this time.

The suits are “doing worse than they have at any time since the Great Depression,” says Heidi Shierholz, a labor economist at the Economic Policy Institute.


Now, think about the professional women (like myself), who are unable to find work that matches our skill set - because some 20-something just got out of college who has no experience will accept $20k a year?

MANY of us have simply given up. I have a Master's Degree in a never-unnecessary field...
I have been looking for 5 years. I can't even get an interview. I'm overqualified for the 'customer service' jobs at Cabella's. So they won't hire me (even though I'm willing to take what they're offering). I even tried CVS! No dice.

Nada.

So, for those of you who are living high on the hog, please don't forget that the mess that is our system right now affects more than just you...and we need access to jobs. I am fortunate enough that my professional husband is able to support us (VERY modestly) even though I am unemployed...I do the domestic chores and manage the household - he works 50+ hours a week, and he is THE MOST TALENTED employee at his workplace (a major Publicly-Traded Firm.)

We are fortunate that our health care has not been affected by the new ACA. We are fortunate that we live in a modest home, with a mortgage payment of $750 a month. We own our vehicles. My credentials are 'worthy' of a professional's salary...

but no one is interested in talking to a 55-year-old woman who knows what she's worth, but is willing to take a low-paying, part-time job and not complain.

THAT is real life in middle-class America.

edit on 11/21/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 02:05 PM
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wildtimes
Um, no. Talent and skill don't always find work. And MANY talented and skilled people are looking for work in their fields...


You can thank your elected, like-minded socialist progressives for their destruction of jobs.

Next time think twice about forcing banks by threat of lawsuit and penalty of law to lend to folks who couldn't hope to pay them back (in the name of 'equality' & 'compassion') which caused the housing crisis and led to the economic collapse.




Who Caused The Financial Crisis?
Starring Bill Clinton's HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo And Barack Obama; With Special Guest Appearances By Bill Clinton And Jimmy Carter:
www.youtube.com...



When leftists possess real power, disastrous consequences can be reliably expected.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by TheWrightWing
 



Next time think twice about forcing banks by threat of lawsuit and penalty of law to lend to folks who couldn't hope to pay them back (in the name of 'equality' & 'compassion') which caused the housing crisis and led to the economic collapse.

Wait.
What???

I didn't make those decisions. I trusted the system to right itself. Hasn't happened.

Okay, I think it's in my best interest to desist from addressing you. We have nothing in common, nor anything worthwhile to say to one another.


That's fine. Brush aside the fact that those banksters PLAYED the system, misled the 'borrowers', and packaged those mortgages in a way to exploit people's wish to be included in 'the American Dream.' Hedge funds. I didn't take out a mortgage I couldn't afford. I didn't knowingly sign my name on a mortgage that I KNEW I could not repay. I am not guilty of the fraud on EITHER side.

Okay, we're done. You obviously have supporters here, so, I'll not waste my time trying to support the have-nots and placing the blame where it belongs. You go ahead and place the blame wherever. Enjoy your prosperity!
edit on 11/21/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


We already have that, it's called capitalism.

Only, to work it needs rational actors, of which we have few.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 02:38 PM
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It's really very simple

What this all boils down to is this

Some people want what other people have without working to get it

See?

Simple




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