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Montana man arrested for fishing, states that "natural law" supersedes US courts.

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posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by ldyserenity
 


Well, in fairness, I think we may be talking about two entirely different things in concept here too. I can well see people growing a small garden or even a couple for different things, within their property and inline to the nature of where they are located. Extremes come in with these examples from a post earlier on the thread. I DO see a real problem with the one example where they had their little farm for 17 years and then the city decided to change the rules. That isn't right at all...

On the others? That isn't a small garden. It's terraforming a lot to re-purpose the space for growing food not residential use (or not JUST residential, and zoning didn't allow for that as the people should have known).

This one in particular...


Julie Bass, of Oak Park, Michigan, wanted to grow her own food. She was a fan of organic vegetables, so she decided to convert her front yard from the grass-and-tree landscaping typical in her neighborhood into an edible garden. Because she had just torn up the front lawn to install a new sewer system, she had a perfect opportunity to start fresh. She planted cabbage, carrots, tomatoes, cucumbers and herbs in raised wooden planters, and waited to reap her produce.
Source

Is what comes to mind when I say I'd sue them clear out of my neighborhood if they did that here. Convert their front yard into a sprawling garden?? Umm.. I bought my property with the understanding I was moving into a single family residential zone, not a farming area. You have to admit, given those examples, it CAN be taken too far with regard to those close by and with rights of their own to consider.
edit on 21-11-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


But a guy from Manhattan fishing in Montana most likely has money and can afford to feed himself.
I think he's looking for notoriety rather than making a serious effort at reforming the system.
Last I checked there was no "right to keep and bear fishing rods" listed in the Constitution.
But if you had asked my father before he passed if fishing were necessary in his pursuit of happiness he would have enthusiastically responded "YES!". I'm pretty sure he had a bunch of Tshirts and hats to bear witness to that sentiment.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:02 AM
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Wrabbit2000
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


Well, in fairness, I think we may be talking about two entirely different things in concept here too. I can well see people growing a small garden or even a couple for different things, within their property and inline to the nature of where they are located. Extremes come in with these examples from a post earlier on the thread. I DO see a real problem with the one example where they had their little farm for 17 years and then the city decided to change the rules. That isn't right at all...

On the others? That isn't a small garden. It's terraforming a lot to re-purpose the space for growing food not residential use (or not JUST residential, and zoning didn't allow for that as the people should have known).

This one in particular...


Julie Bass, of Oak Park, Michigan, wanted to grow her own food. She was a fan of organic vegetables, so she decided to convert her front yard from the grass-and-tree landscaping typical in her neighborhood into an edible garden. Because she had just torn up the front lawn to install a new sewer system, she had a perfect opportunity to start fresh. She planted cabbage, carrots, tomatoes, cucumbers and herbs in raised wooden planters, and waited to reap her produce.
Source

Is what comes to mind when I say I'd sue them clear out of my neighborhood if they did that here. Convert their front yard into a sprawling garden?? Umm.. I bought my property with the understanding I was moving into a single family residential zone, not a farming area. You have to admit, given those examples, it CAN be taken too far with regard to those close by and with rights of their own to consider.
edit on 21-11-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)


Then again there is always backyard chicken farming....free eggs and some cities encourage you to raise your own food.

vancouver.ca...



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:04 AM
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Give a Idiot a fish and he'll eat for a day...Give a idiot a fishing rod and he'll end up in court talking complete and utter Bollocks.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:05 AM
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Asktheanimals
reply to post by Helious
 


Last I checked there was no "right to keep and bear fishing rods" listed in the Constitution.



Easy now son. Step back away from the vehicle and slowly lower the tackle box and what not. And the pole tube. Easy now cause I can count the hairs on that hand.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


No.
Sorry, I have to disagree with you.
She is growing food. period. I don't care what you are "zoned" for, if I am paying taxes on land that I bought, I will grow what I want.
Again, it is just more control taken away from the person that owns that property.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:09 AM
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InTheLight

ldyserenity

InTheLight

Panic2k11
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 




I foresee a day where government controls all of the food. If you can control the food, you can control the people.


Hum ?!? They already do... where have you been !??! Not only the food but the air and water...


There's a remedy for that...buy land, grown your own food and collect and purify water or rainwater for potable drinking water. Simple.


OH what I wouldn't give to do just that, sadly, like most poor slobs here in the USA I could never ever afford to, especially since I refuse to ever have a mortgage so it's going to have to be cash up front, which in my case I could maybe afford if I was an immortal vampire after 3000 or so years of working steadily at the same job. Even though I am trained as a skilled worker in a supposedly "Up and coming field" of technology, though I can't seem to actually find a job in that field even with my knowledge (no experience just finished) so well, I can see how this would be ideal but not plausible for most of us.


Where there's a will, there's a way. One good idea is forming a victory garden committee and asking a neighbor(s) or your town/city to use vacant land to grow food as the people did during times of food shortage.

www.victorygardenfoundation.org...


I think this is what they should do for welfare recipients that way they can work in the garden to "earn" their food, this and plus volunteers like me who could just work after our work hours to also get a bit of the harvest. I'm all for that. I think it's a great idea, sadly everywhere I have lived nobody is interested in doing it or the property managers shoot it down (Because I own my home but rent the land). In Other places I have flat out rented too, so I was unable to have that in the space of the yard, however I kept window boxes. Don't get me wrong I can have a garden on my property here, but the available plots that aren't with a residence on it usually the managers don't let you do the victory garden. But yeah I am all for that, it'd be great if the government started these and kind of took over those empty spaces by way of Eminent Domain and start these gardens. I fully approve this because some people are just too damn greedy and miserly, like trailer park owners, and condo owners. Apartment owners (Even in Urban settings the roof is an excellent place to have a garden, but don't try to do it unless you a)can buy the damn roof or b) are sneaky enough with it not to get caught. Or maybe c)the owner is a pot smoking freelovin' hippy).



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:10 AM
link   

ldyserenity

InTheLight

ldyserenity

InTheLight

Panic2k11
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 




I foresee a day where government controls all of the food. If you can control the food, you can control the people.


Hum ?!? They already do... where have you been !??! Not only the food but the air and water...


There's a remedy for that...buy land, grown your own food and collect and purify water or rainwater for potable drinking water. Simple.


OH what I wouldn't give to do just that, sadly, like most poor slobs here in the USA I could never ever afford to, especially since I refuse to ever have a mortgage so it's going to have to be cash up front, which in my case I could maybe afford if I was an immortal vampire after 3000 or so years of working steadily at the same job. Even though I am trained as a skilled worker in a supposedly "Up and coming field" of technology, though I can't seem to actually find a job in that field even with my knowledge (no experience just finished) so well, I can see how this would be ideal but not plausible for most of us.


Where there's a will, there's a way. One good idea is forming a victory garden committee and asking a neighbor(s) or your town/city to use vacant land to grow food as the people did during times of food shortage.

www.victorygardenfoundation.org...


I think this is what they should do for welfare recipients that way they can work in the garden to "earn" their food, this and plus volunteers like me who could just work after our work hours to also get a bit of the harvest. I'm all for that. I think it's a great idea, sadly everywhere I have lived nobody is interested in doing it or the property managers shoot it down (Because I own my home but rent the land). In Other places I have flat out rented too, so I was unable to have that in the space of the yard, however I kept window boxes. Don't get me wrong I can have a garden on my property here, but the available plots that aren't with a residence on it usually the managers don't let you do the victory garden. But yeah I am all for that, it'd be great if the government started these and kind of took over those empty spaces by way of Eminent Domain and start these gardens. I fully approve this because some people are just too damn greedy and miserly, like trailer park owners, and condo owners. Apartment owners (Even in Urban settings the roof is an excellent place to have a garden, but don't try to do it unless you a)can buy the damn roof or b) are sneaky enough with it not to get caught. Or maybe c)the owner is a pot smoking freelovin' hippy).


What about a rooftop garden (and use the vertical space) and window boxes, etc. Nobody could stop you from doing what you wanted with that space.

www.thestar.com...
edit on 21-11-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by chiefsmom
 


You'd see no limit to that? Okay... I'm in the center of the city, where I'm located here. It's the Midwest, so I am somewhat limited in my choices to grow, but lets say I'm not well educated and don't even know about growing regions or harvest schedules. Let's say I just love corn and Bananas. Now I'm only on 1/4 acre lot here, but heck, I don't know or care about things like impact upon neighbors, so as long as the part of the plant, respectively, that I want is inside my fence line, all is good?

What the roots of a Walnut tree I may love do to my neighbors sewage or their patio (or even pool, depending on area this happens in) should be 100% their problem, and nothing I did as direct cause of their grief should make any difference ..because I was doing it for food, right? What the other crops I grow attract and make problems from in pest and treatment alike, is their problem as well.

That's taken to an extreme...but maybe not SO extreme to some of what we read done today. Zoning laws aren't there to make the city money, even if that's how some have come to use it. It's there so we can all live decently, even if we can't necessarily live in our own personal Utopia for the balance of keeping other people decently happy.

* There is a solution to this. Go OUTSIDE residential areas where other people are impacted and buy a few acres. Maybe a dozen or a few dozen. It's not THAT expensive everywhere if that's someone's goal. Then you can be Farmer John day and night, if you'd choose to be...and not even the gawd awful smell of the necessary fertilizer will offend noses near enough to care.

edit on 21-11-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: Minor changes



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:15 AM
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Probably would have been a worthy listen for the judge without the antics. A fishing license in that State is a little under 50.00 if memory serves right (for 1 year). Thereafter you can only get a heavy fine if you catch a certain type of fish - a cutthroat trout. If catch t and can"t get it off without killing it the fine stands.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


In raised wooden planters? So she could still also have grass, nope sorry, can't see the problem there, what is the difference between that and the thousands of planters full of flowers I see them doing on the DIY channel landscape jobs they do any different than what she did? A LOT of vegetables and fruits bear beautiful flowers before the fruit/vegetable ripen, also, cabbage is beautiful and is sold here as a "Ornamental plant" for our homes. Nope sorry don't see the problem with that. Still can't fathom it.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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The FedGov would try and regulate gravity it it could.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:25 AM
link   

InTheLight

ldyserenity

InTheLight

ldyserenity

InTheLight

Panic2k11
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 




I foresee a day where government controls all of the food. If you can control the food, you can control the people.


Hum ?!? They already do... where have you been !??! Not only the food but the air and water...


There's a remedy for that...buy land, grown your own food and collect and purify water or rainwater for potable drinking water. Simple.


OH what I wouldn't give to do just that, sadly, like most poor slobs here in the USA I could never ever afford to, especially since I refuse to ever have a mortgage so it's going to have to be cash up front, which in my case I could maybe afford if I was an immortal vampire after 3000 or so years of working steadily at the same job. Even though I am trained as a skilled worker in a supposedly "Up and coming field" of technology, though I can't seem to actually find a job in that field even with my knowledge (no experience just finished) so well, I can see how this would be ideal but not plausible for most of us.


Where there's a will, there's a way. One good idea is forming a victory garden committee and asking a neighbor(s) or your town/city to use vacant land to grow food as the people did during times of food shortage.

www.victorygardenfoundation.org...


I think this is what they should do for welfare recipients that way they can work in the garden to "earn" their food, this and plus volunteers like me who could just work after our work hours to also get a bit of the harvest. I'm all for that. I think it's a great idea, sadly everywhere I have lived nobody is interested in doing it or the property managers shoot it down (Because I own my home but rent the land). In Other places I have flat out rented too, so I was unable to have that in the space of the yard, however I kept window boxes. Don't get me wrong I can have a garden on my property here, but the available plots that aren't with a residence on it usually the managers don't let you do the victory garden. But yeah I am all for that, it'd be great if the government started these and kind of took over those empty spaces by way of Eminent Domain and start these gardens. I fully approve this because some people are just too damn greedy and miserly, like trailer park owners, and condo owners. Apartment owners (Even in Urban settings the roof is an excellent place to have a garden, but don't try to do it unless you a)can buy the damn roof or b) are sneaky enough with it not to get caught. Or maybe c)the owner is a pot smoking freelovin' hippy).


What about a rooftop garden (and use the vertical space) and window boxes, etc. Nobody could stop you from doing what you wanted with that space.

www.thestar.com...
edit on 21-11-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)


I covered the rooftop ones above^ They will not let you do it in most cases unless you buy that top floor (Or roof) I'm saying I do it on my property here that's no problem but I would like to start a victry garden I live in a trailer park even though most people are also growing their food they are not interested in a victory garden and anyway the managers forbid it. However I have stated I had indoor garden window boxes inside homes I rented. One home I rented was right next to a farm, I loved the hell out of that place, because I could have chickens if I wanted and grew sunflowers, however my lazy cats let the birds freely eat the seeds -.- But I did have tomatoes there and chamomile, basil, thyme, parsley whatever I wanted to grow I had free reign I loved that place, sadly the owner had to sell, and we had to get out the new owners were knocking down the house to build a bigger one, more rent income you know.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


No, I really don't. I guess it is just me. (and ldyserenity I see!)
I have a neighbor, that has a motorcycle track on his property. He has been known to "re-vamp" that track with a bobcat. At 2 am. Well, its' his property. I don't call the police.

So a few plants aren't going to bother me one bit. Besides, in city's, the city plants trees along the curb. Where do you think those roots go?? Sewer lines, basements, everywhere.
edit on 21-11-2013 by chiefsmom because: addition



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:28 AM
link   

ldyserenity

InTheLight

ldyserenity

InTheLight

ldyserenity

InTheLight

Panic2k11
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 




I foresee a day where government controls all of the food. If you can control the food, you can control the people.


Hum ?!? They already do... where have you been !??! Not only the food but the air and water...


There's a remedy for that...buy land, grown your own food and collect and purify water or rainwater for potable drinking water. Simple.


OH what I wouldn't give to do just that, sadly, like most poor slobs here in the USA I could never ever afford to, especially since I refuse to ever have a mortgage so it's going to have to be cash up front, which in my case I could maybe afford if I was an immortal vampire after 3000 or so years of working steadily at the same job. Even though I am trained as a skilled worker in a supposedly "Up and coming field" of technology, though I can't seem to actually find a job in that field even with my knowledge (no experience just finished) so well, I can see how this would be ideal but not plausible for most of us.


Where there's a will, there's a way. One good idea is forming a victory garden committee and asking a neighbor(s) or your town/city to use vacant land to grow food as the people did during times of food shortage.

www.victorygardenfoundation.org...


I think this is what they should do for welfare recipients that way they can work in the garden to "earn" their food, this and plus volunteers like me who could just work after our work hours to also get a bit of the harvest. I'm all for that. I think it's a great idea, sadly everywhere I have lived nobody is interested in doing it or the property managers shoot it down (Because I own my home but rent the land). In Other places I have flat out rented too, so I was unable to have that in the space of the yard, however I kept window boxes. Don't get me wrong I can have a garden on my property here, but the available plots that aren't with a residence on it usually the managers don't let you do the victory garden. But yeah I am all for that, it'd be great if the government started these and kind of took over those empty spaces by way of Eminent Domain and start these gardens. I fully approve this because some people are just too damn greedy and miserly, like trailer park owners, and condo owners. Apartment owners (Even in Urban settings the roof is an excellent place to have a garden, but don't try to do it unless you a)can buy the damn roof or b) are sneaky enough with it not to get caught. Or maybe c)the owner is a pot smoking freelovin' hippy).


What about a rooftop garden (and use the vertical space) and window boxes, etc. Nobody could stop you from doing what you wanted with that space.

www.thestar.com...
edit on 21-11-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)


I covered the rooftop ones above^ They will not let you do it in most cases unless you buy that top floor (Or roof) I'm saying I do it on my property here that's no problem but I would like to start a victry garden I live in a trailer park even though most people are also growing their food they are not interested in a victory garden and anyway the managers forbid it. However I have stated I had indoor garden window boxes inside homes I rented. One home I rented was right next to a farm, I loved the hell out of that place, because I could have chickens if I wanted and grew sunflowers, however my lazy cats let the birds freely eat the seeds -.- But I did have tomatoes there and chamomile, basil, thyme, parsley whatever I wanted to grow I had free reign I loved that place, sadly the owner had to sell, and we had to get out the new owners were knocking down the house to build a bigger one, more rent income you know.


Oh, I thought you owned the home and rented the property.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


Just saying, he could have feed himself without exposing himself to the authority's.


Did not say I believe a license should mandatory, just saying I want to avoid the same problems this man now has.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:29 AM
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Just to clear up some confusion, I am pretty sure they mean the man is from Manhattan, MONTANA...

Town of Manhattan

In my opinion, a person should have the right to prevent starvation without being required to purchase a license. However, I doubt this was the case here. Montanans are pretty careful about people misusing natural resources. We have seen too many of our wild populations devastated by unregulated hunting and fishing.

I think everyone should have the chance to grow up learning to fish and hunt. You learn some very important life lessons out in the wild. It's hard to do that when 500,000 poachers decide to commit genocide on the deer herd. Wildlife populations also need to be unmolested during certain times of the year to help them breed or during critical phases of rearing young. Licensing helps regulate and fund wildlife management.

Many species of wildlife are or were near extinction due to careless management. And that includes the current devastation of the elk herd due to the release of non-native wolf packs into the wild.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:31 AM
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And to get back on topic, I guess I don't know really how I feel about the guy. On one hand, yes, he is making a point about "Rights", and I get that.
But you don't have to be a jerk about it. Why doesn't he try to change the law, by trying to get the issue on a ballet?
edit on 21-11-2013 by chiefsmom because: He didn't fly there.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Yes I understand that that's why a lot of people can't have willow trees. Yup that is understandable, but easy to remedy if the dumb schmuk goes to a town planner and asks for the pipe layouts near the homes on his block this is easily avoided unless the idiot planner has out dated maps. Most laws in cities require you go to a town planner before you plant most trees for this reason (Not to mention you can hit gas lines etc) Yes in that ONE case you're absolutely right. In the case of self contained raised wooden boxes where the roots really don't even contact the ground you're wrong even if they're bottomless, the roots could never reach the ground from a raised box, because the plants mentioned do not grow roots deep enough.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:33 AM
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chiefsmom
And to get back on topic, I guess I don't know really how I feel about the guy. On one hand, yes, he is making a point about "Rights", and I get that.
But you don't have to be a jerk about it. If you can fly out there, can't you afford an attorney, and take this issue to court, calmly and rationally?


But would the coverage have even been the same or would there even have been any coverage?
This is how in some way I kind of understand his reasoning!



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