Imagining WWIII without the United States

reply to post by ketsuko


Contary to the us propaganda muslims still only make up a minority,

If they tried a power grab they would likely find themsels as victims of holocaust 2.0, fact if us europeans can be laid back but piss us off and crap flys. Theres just not enough muslims and certainly not enough with political or military influance.

Also the same can be said for eu economics, its not as simple as the usa media plays out, things are dire in greece, spain and italy yes but central and northen europe are doing pretty well, i know from a relative in german banking that they are prepared for a depression, scandinavia have pretty low debt and lots of natural resources and the uk has stabilised alot. Not saying the EU wont get hurt but its not the hell hole fox news makes it out to be, at least not across all europe.

reply to post by crazyewok


I didn't get this from FOX. Sorry to burst your bubble, but from independent econ blogs.

See, if the US falls, it will pull down places like China that are currently in the midst of their own banking crisis due to being overleveraged in public debt and heavily dependent on places like the US to buy their cheap stuff. They are trying to transition from a mostly public economy to a consumer one.

There are also India and Brazil and Russia who are slumping back into slower economies for various reasons.

These are the places who make our stuff and who will be taking part in this hypothetical war.

What happens to the shaky recovery in the EU nations when the BRICS try to kill each other and the US falls off the map? Some of those nations will fall economically, and you will be facing widespread social unrest.

Also, you have no idea how much you sound like the average white American with your comments about the minority over in Europe. Talk about irony ... At least we're still armed over here. And I mean that with no disrespect. It just goes to show that in some ways we aren't as different as we all like to pretend.

reply to post by ketsuko


I live here you dont.

And i can say muslims may be able to stage a riot , kill a few people ect but they have not the numbers or power for any sort of takeover.

As for economic woes? Never said the EU would be unhurt. But it wont be anyworse off than other countrys going broke. Even more reason to stay neutral in ww3 and let the rest of the world duke it out then sell to the suvivours. Any italy spain greece and all the other weak countrys could collaspe or leave the EU and the euro may end be got rid of but the Uk, germany and France will likely always stay alignedAny way apart from the usa the only country able to match the combined arms of germany,france and the uk is china and i see no reason why we would ever try and take on china? Be as pointless as me going outside and kicking my neighbors pitbull.

As for guns? You do know guns are not banned in half the EU? Plus if there is breakdown or unrest illegal guns will find there way in, they always do even in the most tyranical of places.

Good thread for thought, I can see your point very clearly.
When the USSR broke up bad Ju Ju's happened almost immediately after the fact.

Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Almost Iran/Syria is in the works too.....Good proof that when there is only one power in town things can get heady to say the least.

Please do not label me anti US as this thread is all supposition so here is mine.
I believe we would not be looking at a World War Three if the US just minded its own business.

The budget for the Military in the States is way way over and above what is needed to protect the nation.

Another thing comes to mind as well, as we know from Afghanistan and Iraq is that the first major defeat is not the end of a war.

What I mean by that is now you have to deal with the locals that are really pissed off and armed and know how to use those arms.

I will use Canada for an example, one bejezzus big chunk of real estate and hardly a soldier to be found.
The up side is millions of hunters with cannons for guns and they know how to use them and they know the landscape. Cold weather your betcha they are dressed for it, Just think of the Germans and their folly into Russia in the dead of winter.

Anyways if the Unthinkable happens I believe China and Russia will be the theater and they should pretty well cancel each other out in my opinion only.

Keep in mind so far the duration for world wars is long and so are the seasons.

S&F

Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by crazyewok


That's why I said at least we're armed. I'm well aware you guys are disarmed over there. Good luck with that.

But my point still stands ... do you have the industrial base left to be self-sufficient? Your stuff is being made by the guys who will be trying their best to kill each other in WWIII. There is also the concern of farmland and population. Can you produce enough to feed yourselves? And, how quickly can you convert into totally self-sustaining economies?

These, btw, are the same concerns we would have in the US minus the one of being able to feed ourselves. We know our industrial base is in shambles for producing what we would need for ourselves. Most of it is rusting away in the aptly named Rust Belt.

After everyone is done killing each other off, Canada will quietly take over the remains of the world. Everyone will be nice to each other, watch a lot of hockey and drink tons of beer.

reply to post by MBMASON


Better hope most of the nuke exchanges take place during winter so that the jet is running to the south of you.

What about the Gog/Magog scenaio as outlined in the Bible? If Russia, Turkey and Iran invade Israel does anyone think Obama will get us involved? Or would he let NATO handle it?

reply to post by The Vagabond


You are there. You see what has been written.

WW3 is the war between the Dragon (China/Russia/Iran/NK) and the Beast (EU/NATO) to "fill the void" after the USA/UK/CA/AU/NZ (5 eyes) collapse.

The first four trumpets of Revelation tell of the downfall and collapse of the USA, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand (modern day descendants of Israel aka tribes of Joseph; NOT the tiny state of Israel aka tribe of Judah). The reason 10 nations join together in Europe (Beast) as the 7th revival of the Holy Roman Empire, begins as an attempt to stabilize the world scene after our nations fall (5th trumpet).

But the power vacuum created by the fall of the sole current superpower alliance will be the cause of WW3 as the remaining nations fight for the right to design the future global economic and political environment in their own image.

Unfortunately with the fall of the USA, MAD (mutually assured destruction) looses its perceived balance, and the Dragon headed by China and Russia will feel their destruction is no longer "mutually assured". They press the "red" button and slay billions (6th trumpet).

Luckily the 7th trumpet is Almighty God stopping WW3 and saving life on Earth from total annihilation.

This is the natural end to the age of mankind's self rule, by our will shall these things come to pass.

God Bless,

RomaSempre
What about the Gog/Magog scenaio as outlined in the Bible? If Russia, Turkey and Iran invade Israel does anyone think Obama will get us involved? Or would he let NATO handle it?

The Gog/Magog war occurs at the close of the millennial reign of the Kingdom of God, NOT at the end of this present age. It is the result of Almighty God releasing Satan one last time to deceive the nation before the beginning of the Great White Thrown age (great resurrection).

Revelation goes from the time of John, all the way through the end of God's perfect plan.

It includes details pertaining to the end of this present age (WW3/Armageddon), the 1000 year millennial reign of the Kingdom of God on Earth (The Goodnews/Gospel) to follow it. Then the Gog/Magog war at the end of the millennium, followed by the Great Resurrection to physical life a second time at the beginning of the age of the Great White Thrown Judgment. It ends with the account of the creation of billions of members of the God family (Elohim) as a result of God's perfect plan for the salvation of mankind, and for some who refuse to love "God's way" will be destroyed in Ghenna, along with Satan and his host.

God Bless,

I think it is a mistake to try and interpret prophecy literally, especially this far removed from the language and mindset of the day. For example the dragon image has very different connotations to the sinophobic and utterly nonmystical modern american mindset than it likely had when penned in revelations.

What I do like about biblical prophecy though is that religion necessarily addresses the most enduring impasses in the human condition. When modern, seemingly unconnected issues roughly mirror prophecy, I take that to mean that there are older underlying causes to be understood which we can gain insight on from others who dealt with it in the past.

For example, I think Jesus was the Roman equivalent of the guys you see today forming militias, declaring themselves sovereign citizens, and trying to unilaterally invalidate the government. Big unresponsive dehumanizing imperial systems- Babylon if you like- and the impulse to move backwards toward defunct local power bases- are at the heart of Christianity. It was born and oriented against Roman globalism (as an offshoot of Judaism, itself born of the plight of defunct tribal societies in the age of empires) and it will always provide partial metaphors for the struggle to maintain our individual identities in the face of growing and centralizing authority. If the bad guys are from the same place everytime, thats geography for you. Look at The Great Game bring echoed in Afghanistan- I'm sure Muslim terrorists see that as evidence of prophecy waiting to unfold, but it's just geography.

America can fit nicely into any side of the prophecy you want us on because we are subject to the same history the rest of the world inherited.

This brings up the possibility that WWIII will be an attempt to fulfill prophecies that were never literally true.

What if a pan-islamic movement sweeps into power in Syria, Iraq, and Egypt as a result of the recent revolutions, then Yellowstone blows or some other wrath of god level disaster disables the West? Might that be taken as a sign of the 12th Imam or whatever and prompt not only an attack on Israel but through SE Europe or across the Med to Italy and Vatican City? What would be the role of African Christian militias if they saw that happening? Prophecy might start the war but not dictate the entire outcome.

reply to post by The Vagabond


Considering the bloodshed that would be required to defeat the tide of the Iranian led and controlled regimes in the Middle East , you could comparative say that it would be events of biblical proportion. Put in more rational terms , the Iran , Syria and Egypt axis will substitute fanaticism for there lack of industrial capacity. The causalities that Turkey and other nations would be akin to if the allies had invaded Japan instead of the Atomic bombs being dropped.