Rejecting Self identities

This is the second part to my thread on Psychic Measurements Of Emotion

In order to maintain higher emotional states, it is imperative that you give up on ideas about yourself.

There is a profound irony about the self. It exists - we can see that it is a unique source that each of us draw upon in becoming and being as we are. Yet, to think about this self, to consciously reflect and brood about this, consistently does us no good. It is the root of all neuroticisms. It's implied in so many of our dysregulated actions.

Theologically and metaphysically, this might be a problem for some, but for me, it's an indisputable fact of the human experience. We are happiest when we are FEELING, as opposed to when we are thinking. And if we find ourselves in a social context in which we are effectively feeling positive states, and we see that other people are enjoying, appreciating and valuing our presence, it can be compelling to begin reflecting on yourself as "this" sort of person.

Perhaps this issue is only relevant to the people who struggle with feeling good some or most of the time. People who generally "feel good", what psychologists term "low-reactive" types, tend to unconsciously generate and develop concepts of self from an early age that inclines them to narcissistic thinking later on in life. People such as this are "adapted", but their constant need to "justify" themselves to others gives their social ability a dubious status.

In any case, this of course is a basic tenet of many Eastern philosophies, particularly Buddhism. It was understood back then that identities represent conscious reifications of the "flow" of things. Reifications may provide some semblance of support, but later on you'll discover that it's a basic source of a lot of your personal and social conflicts.

reply to post by Astrocyte


It's delightful for me to say this:

this post is 100% correct.

The more corrupt symbols you carry inside of you, the more
energy you have to use to maintain the house of cards which
people call 'themselves'. Show me a man or woman who doesn't
do this, and I'll show you someone who sleeps well, lives well,
has abundant mental and emotional energy, almost can't be
psychologically attacked, and who can safely undergo further
spiritual growth.

Unfortunately the methods used to attain this blessed state of
freedom aren't the best in this modern age. For westerners
a good solid study of Jed McKennas first book might be more
helpful than years of Zen or Buddhism or Advaita yoga.

Well anyway.... very nice to see someone post this foundational
material.

KPB

reply to post by Astrocyte


Quite intrigued on this, but I dont have anything to add at this stage.

"second part"? Can you please link to the first... Its not that I'm lazy--ok it is that I'm lazy..

Thanks

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

Jed McKenna

I'll check him out

Personally, I study trauma and the effects it has on the body and mind. Theres a new field growing around this research called 'affective neuroscience', which combines knowledges of the bodies basic autonomic mechanisms and how it influences our ability to confidently and relaxingly engage others socially. In trauma, there's a breakdown of the nucleus ambiguus, which is the ventral tract of the vagus nerve. This theory, called the polyvagal theory, posits that the bifurcation noticed by neurobiologists of the vagus nerve represents a mammalian accretion to the parasympathetic dominant dorsal tract of the vagus nerve.

Basically, reptiles require far less energy than we do to live. There metabolisms are many times slower than mammals; additionally, they don't have any striated muscles controlling their faces, and so don't convey different types of emotion. Mammals, conversely, are far more social and so require an evolutionary explanation for how they are able to be this way. the polyvagal theory does this by positing a neural tract that mediates cortical (conscious) connection with the body; this occurs via the dorsal vagus.

Mammals put a "break" on parasympathetic feeling (the dorsal 'reptilian' vagus) when they need to utilize quick energy bursts. The endocrine system is too slow for this; the nucleus ambiguus co-opts the sub-diaphragmatic afferents controlled by the dorsal vagus in order to increase metabolic output.

In short, this is how we are able to go from a relaxed state to a reactive state so quickly and efficiently. In trauma, the myelinated tract - the nucleus ambiguus - becomes dysfunctional. The metabolically conservative reptilian vagus prevents connection with the cortex - the source of the anxiety - by heightening parasympathetic activity; a nearby site in the brain stem called the PAG (periaquductal grey) then releases endogenous opioids that dull mind-body connection.

I'm describing all this because the psychologies that are being developed essentially find solutions and methods that emphasize basic core principals discovered in the East. The need to be aware of the body, for example, is a staple of yoga. The need to avoid objectifying yourself i.e. getting locked in self identities, is found in many eastern religions as well.

If you're interested in this literature (as an intellectual exercise, it's exciting stuff), check out Allan Schore (affect regulation), Steven Porges, Laurence Heller, Jake Prakpt, as well as theories behind somatic therapy.

With the direction affective neuroscience is taking - leading figures hold positions in major universities worldwide - I can definitely see this entering our school systems, 15-20 from now, given enough time to get people to think more maturely about the need to effectively socialize more kids than now. We can do this by emphasizing bodily feeling states. When kids bully, they do so largely because they are unconsciously expressing their emotions. By bringing into awareness bodily sensation, you simultaneously strengthen awareness of emotional feeling (the two are neurally intertwined). What prevents mean behavior other than an acute awareness of how that other person would feel if I mistreated him?

Hope this comes to pass one day.

quite a bit of our modern economy is based on this idea. first, they hook you on your self-concept, and then they put a pay wall between you and that 'awesome person's that is you. its sick.

no one themselves as a bad driver.... so how can there be so many bad drivers out there?
no one thinks of themselves as a sheeple. so why do I (the 'awesome I'm, of course) feel as though I am surrounded by them?

I laugh out loud when I see someone wearing cowboy boots or hat.
I am thinking to myself: "really, cowboy? is THAT who you think you are?!" hahaha


authenticity is so hard to come by these days of walking zombies. the good news is that all you have to do is be authentic yourself and it spreads like wildfire in your cohorts. (cohort is a strange word, no?)

great post, op. I would like to read #1 of 2.

reply to post by Astrocyte


good god. that was an amazing post. just fascinating.

reply to post by Astrocyte


I hope so too.

Let's get this 'take a pill to master 50 years of yoga' accomplished,
and (I know you don't necessarily 'buy this' ) get Kundalini and
the EM parasites hassling us proven in the lab, and we can
turn all this mysticism into science! Then we can kick ass
and colonize the galaxy.

Great post.

reply to post by Astrocyte


imho this is the hardest part.
to give up identities... the biggest obstacle for me (hopefully the last)

thanks for the post!

peace.

reply to post by Astrocyte


The self is often a concept tied to 'things'. To desire for the self to feel good is a need for attachment to something. An emotion, an event, a substance. You always want something other than what you have. That need never ceases, it might ease temporarily, but it becomes insatiable once you start to feed it.

Be in the moment, at the moment, and your self is free to be anything you want it to be.

feeling good, or feeling bad.. they are just how you interpret it.. really.. just feel.

reply to post by Astrocyte


I love your thread. I have PTSD and have cognitive issues. I was hoping that this thread would have some answers or techniques to assist with regression - age identity and personality. I have borderline personality of 9 years old (age of trauma) and it is the regression and cognitive 'jams' that are difficult. I would love to not have that issue.

so as soon as I saw your title, I came running in here and started reading.
If you have any thoughts about this kind of thing... would be very interested in reading it.

reply to post by Astrocyte


ok back again...
question is for People like me with PTSD, the brain gets stuck on a cognitive pathway and the memory is of the time when trauma occurred so it is awful. It is the most awful thing with the eye sensations also is unbearable.

so the brain remembers something from a trigger, like an object, person or sound etc and then the cognitive pathway changes to that memory. The memory brings with it a 'feeling' of you at that time. So for me, if I trigger, I walk around with the presence of myself at the age of 9 and even talk as though I am that age.

If you had any suggestions how to get rid of that feeling, everyone with PTSD would love you!!

reply to post by Astrocyte


Thank you for this. I'm still reading and trying to understand what you're telling us. I wanted to ask about trauma more specifically, if that's ok. Do you mean physical or emotional trauma, or both? I've been trying to find some answers to issues that I've been having for a while, and there are one or two synchronicities in what you write that caught my eye. I had very severe symptoms last week and when I described them to my mother, a nurse for 50 years (!), she said it sounded like I was having problems with the vegus nerve, and perhaps it has been damaged somehow. I will follow up on some of the names and ideas you've mentioned...thank you again.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

This approach towards trauma - and all anxiety/dissociation issues - simply works.

Since unconscious neural mechanisms don't make much distinction between bodily and emotional feeling (for example, if your stomach feels funny, it also affects your mood), administrators should show an interest in what somatic mindfulness can do for creating more socially adapted, relaxed and civil adults.

There is nothing "mystical" about it.

reply to post by Thurisaz

I have borderline personality of 9 years old (age of trauma) and it is the regression and cognitive 'jams' that are difficult. I would love to not have that issue.

Hi, I can recommend a few good books for you to read.

If you're not daunted by neurobiological language, check out "the polyvagal theory", as well as the "healing power of emotions". In a few months, Dr. Porges (the developer of the polyvagal theory) will publish "clinical applications of the polyvagal theory".

If you want, I can PM you a chapter on borderline personality disorder.

Borderline personality disorder can be a tricky issue to get a hold of, but it's possible.

In the mornings, as soon as the day begins, you need to meditate on the type of state you want to cultivate through out the day. As you said, the regressions and cognitive jams - the patterns of thought you get caught up in - can be a problem. Yes, thats true. But that's the problem, isn't it? Changing emotional dysregulation is a task that involves immense amounts of patience; it requires that you be patient and compassionate with yourself.

Eventually, you'll find that your ability to rebound from a dysregulated state has improved. Overtime, years on out, your normalized state will be more regulated and calm than it was years before.

It is not by any means an easy process. It is a life-long challenge and project. The brains inherent plasticity permits cortical areas to literally direct it's own emotional experiences. Inherent in this approach, paradoxically, is a willingness to experience dysregulation without an overly personal and "graspy" attitude. In order to shift your states, you must do it with as little cognitive involvement as possible.

reply to post by caitlinfae

Do you mean physical or emotional trauma, or both

I'm referring mainly to emotional trauma.

I had very severe symptoms last week and when I described them to my mother, a nurse for 50 years (!), she said it sounded like I was having problems with the vegus nerve, and perhaps it has been damaged somehow. I will follow up on some of the names and ideas you've mentioned...thank you again.

What sort of problems?

reply to post by Astrocyte


I've had these a few times, but last week was the worst...it's pain in my ribcage, and often in my arms and shoulders, sometimes my neck, and it makes it very difficult to lie down and sleep. Lying on either side made me feel like I was having palpitations, and sometimes I would feel nauseous also. My cardiac function is fine..it's been checked...and mum is a cardiac nurse anyway, so she might well notice something first, so although it feels like it to me, I'm not having a heart attack. All the symptoms have gone now apart from pains in my arms, just above the elbows, and a little further up. I'm fine with discussing symptoms in a thread, and I've posted elsewhere on a few occasions, trying to pin down the cause (solar flares are looking good just now!) but when it comes to the actual trauma, perhaps we could move it to a private message, if that's ok. I'm very curious to find out what you think.

Maybe this is just one piece and why it seems to leave out those who have several to numerous "self identities". True multiple self identities.. not the fractured psyche type (mpd).... but simply several identities naturally within one person.

While we are humans, self-denial is not an option. If that means you don't get to "become light" or whatever in the next few decades, big whoop. We might as well expedite evolution while we're at it. And like it or not, you're not trying to ascend because you need to. You're trying because you want to. The thing you're trying to get rid of is the reason you want this.

reply to post by Astrocyte


I never said there was.

But it deeply affects 'the mystical'.