Ufology today is an absolute DISGRACE

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by JadeStar

 

I now can blackmail you; an irrational mystic corrected your
grade school math. They are going to take away your junior
scientist card if I say anything!

That said, I'm an advocate of the planetarium and zoo
hypothesis as listed here: Fermi Paradox.

I don't find that video particularly compelling. I still assert
that we should be up to our belly buttons in bracewell
probes unless some variety of the two mentioned
hypothesis are correct. This article makes the
case very compellingly: Self Replicating Spacecraft

Some (rare) intelligent discussion here.

I'll ask a question, what do people think is the most powerful force in the universe?

I believe it may be evolution.

A lot of people have this idea that civilisations and species go out into space and remain static, but that's because they don't have a good grasp of evolution and speciation.

When living things are separated over space and time they speciate and evolve. The self replicating probe will evolve also. They will not stay the same and very quickly should lose their original objective.

Why will this happen, Darwin wrote about in terms of fitness. Fitness describes how well the organism is adapted to the given environment and it's competitive advantage inter/intra species and the ability to reproduce at the expense of other members of the species. The 'fitter' the organism, the more likely it will reproduce. It's 100% certain that a Bracewell probe will evolve decendants with purely selfish motivations as they will be fitter than a probe that has to spend energy on pointlessly transmitting information back to it's host. They need to put their energy into their own survival.

A lot of people also don't understand that there is no 'direction' to evolution. Species can evolve into what are considered simpler forms as well as evolve into what are considered more complex forms.

In fact, there is a real possibility we are the descendants of what could have started as an intelligent bracewell probe.
The Bracewell probe could have evolved over millions of years into myriad forms, one of which was a space adapted bacteria that landed on Earth.

Therefore the conclusion for the Fermi paradox and the mystery of why we don't see Bracewell probes all around us could be staring us literally in the face.

greyer
reply to post by mlifeoutthere

 

Really, in the 50s which was the decade after the foo fighters and really the first world wide illustration of alien visitation, UFOs where everywhere, being reported in the papers, loads of cars gathering alongside highways in awe. That is how you had such a tremendous impact and influence of research - WITHOUT the web or easily accessible media during the time. Why now that we have easily accessible media it has all turned to disgrace, lies, and a waste of time? Obviously if you did have such things happening they would still show over the 90% of deceitful kids trying to get attention on youtube.

They were here, it is easy to see, and they are gone, it is easy to see.

I have a feeling this could be the truth, the only other explanation is the whole thing is bunkum.

The accounts from the 1950s and 1960s are striking and there are still witnesses just going on the record now from these times. Modern accounts do not match them. It's possible that they are either gone or changed their interaction to avoid detection from our improved technology.

Well said ManInAsia.

There's a lot of thought in your post and I agree, there is no reason to suspect stasis in terms of evolution (both biological and technologically enhanced).

Frith
reply to post by mlifeoutthere

 

You do recognize that if this subject is real then a cover-up is going on, right?

This is going off the assumption that every UFO that has ever crashed has done so either in the backyard of these super top secret officials, or on top secret government property? That would be pretty convenient. The frequent argument to that is the government keeps all kinds of secrets. The U-2 or Stealth bomber for example. Yes, they absolutely do and I don't think you'll get any argument on those points. But, top secret projects such as those are inclusive. Meaning, they are totally designed and built within that facility. Easy to confine and keep secret by those employees. A crash of an alien spacecraft is not an inclusive event. It would be hard to confine a situation such as that. Roswell being the holy grail for a government conspiracy in regards to alien bodies and crash debris is a weak evidence-less case. All dependent upon stories.

When the late NASA astronaut Gordon Cooper claimed to have sent off a legitimate film of a UFO that had landed in a dry lake bed to a military institution and that film has not been made public there are only two conclusions to be made from such a statement. Either Cooper was lying or the military covered up the film.

Cooper did not see nor was he directly involved with this incident. This is a story that has been told wrong for many years.

111DPKING111

Unfortunately the hacks are more prevalent, especially when there is money to be made. On top of that, there are high social consequences for those who come forward. Like the canadian incident where a ufo harasses a japanese plane for an hour, he comes forward and is asked to fly a desk, just the way it is.

You need to do a little more searching yourself for quality information. That youtube video linked is not 100% factual and information has been left out. It's imperative for anyone to do their own personal research involving these cases. Far too many rely upon sensationlized articles and tv programs.

JAL 1628 is a case that's claimed by many to be a great case. To begin with, the pilot Terauchi had misidentified lights as "motherships" on two other flights. This enormous walnut shaped mothership the size of two aircraft carriers was only seen by Terauchi. Neither his co-pilot nor navigator had a clear sighting of anything. That's even with a 360 degree turn around this "object". Fairbanks airport was in line with this flight and had no radar data on this gigantic ship. Another flight was diverted to get visual confirmation of this mothership, but saw nothing when within sight of JAL 1628.

Not a good example of a good case. But a good example of a case that travels the internet spreading bits and pieces and not 100% of it's facts. All facts have to be studied in totality.

ManInAsia
The accounts from the 1950s and 1960s are striking and there are still witnesses just going on the record now from these times. Modern accounts do not match them. It's possible that they are either gone or changed their interaction to avoid detection from our improved technology.

Yes that's where the evidence leads.

Many wanted to compare them to our idea of angels or demons because truthfully they displayed characteristics of both angels and demons, but the reality is they were advanced beings from space, who had an organized program and operation of invasion that had a beginning, a middle, and an end. Interesting enough, they slipped out right when the internet age began.

They may have known about earth for 100s of millions of years, but the invasion first started taking place in the 1940s. Pilots started seeing foo fighters which were orbs which are a frequent use of monitoring by the aliens. Into the next decades we see newspapers reporting of a literal invasion. The middle of the program was in the 1970s, in 73 there was a large flap and the cattle mutilations began earnestly. Towards the new millennium, they moved to south America. I don't have the answer for why they preferred the western hemisphere for the invasion.

greyer

ManInAsia
The accounts from the 1950s and 1960s are striking and there are still witnesses just going on the record now from these times. Modern accounts do not match them. It's possible that they are either gone or changed their interaction to avoid detection from our improved technology.

Yes that's where the evidence leads.

Many wanted to compare them to our idea of angels or demons because truthfully they displayed characteristics of both angels and demons, but the reality is they were advanced beings from space, who had an organized program and operation of invasion that had a beginning, a middle, and an end. Interesting enough, they slipped out right when the internet age began.

They may have known about earth for 100s of millions of years, but the invasion first started taking place in the 1940s. Pilots started seeing foo fighters which were orbs which are a frequent use of monitoring by the aliens. Into the next decades we see newspapers reporting of a literal invasion. The middle of the program was in the 1970s, in 73 there was a large flap and the cattle mutilations began earnestly. Towards the new millennium, they moved to south America. I don't have the answer for why they preferred the western hemisphere for the invasion.

This is the problem when you're trying to prove the existence of a technological ET presence. - they would be capable of 'moving the goal posts'. If there are here, they would seem to have been present for quite some time. Any interaction that we've had with "them" would be pretty one sided - and with the deception element that Vallee and Keel talked about, I'd say what we saw was what "they" wanted us to see. They would also be well-aware of our technological development, and would know to tone things down as we got more advanced and began to conceptualize about the kinds of technology that "they" would be using.

I don't think they've left. I have a theory that the 1947-1982 'peak' represented a kind of cultural conditioning to the concept of other, more technologically advanced (or even esoteric) civilizations and entities. Running into a Kardashev II civilization in 1947 probably could have led to a serious social meltdown or something. What we seem to have taken away from the whole thing is a widespread, if not growing, belief that we are not alone. Kit Green mentions this in Mirage Men, albit from the perspective of the US government. There has been more then enough time for various ET's to swing through the solar system, do their things, and leave a covert presence behind to see if the silly primates on this rock blow themselves up (the phenomena did seem to be interested in nuclear facilities). Its hard to hide in space (thermal management) - but the biosphere is hot, wet, and crowded enough to conceal a nanotechnological presence.

I dunno. I'm probably wrong, but from a nuts n bolts perspective it would seem to be the best explanation for the Keel/Vallee angle.

ManInAsia
I'll ask a question, what do people think is the most powerful force in the universe?
I believe it may be evolution.

I have my money on perception. Because if there is nothing around to perceive something, then there's no wave function collapse. You don't know if anything exists. If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, all you're talking about is a hypothetical tree. But that's more of a philosophical point.

As long as time exists in the universe, everything has a chance to happen, and exploration can take as long as necessary. Our brilliant little machines are already way ahead of us in the race out into the universe, having been on different planets and zooming out away from our sun into areas of space that humanity may never reach. Once they get smaller, smarter, and capable of reproducing themselves in environments that we could never survive in, they will infect this part of the galaxy/universe like a fungus.

Would they be obvious? Maybe not. If another civilization sent their little intelligent bugs to Earth billions of years ago, and they evolved into us, it would be nice if there was some kind of obvious calling card built into the genetics of every "living" thing on the planet. It's the stuff of science-fiction, I guess. Finding a code embedded in the DNA of everything, giving us the galactic coordinates of where it all originated. That would be cool.

1ofthe9
This is the problem when you're trying to prove the existence of a technological ET presence. - they would be capable of 'moving the goal posts'. If there are here, they would seem to have been present for quite some time. Any interaction that we've had with "them" would be pretty one sided - and with the deception element that Vallee and Keel talked about, I'd say what we saw was what "they" wanted us to see. They would also be well-aware of our technological development, and would know to tone things down as we got more advanced and began to conceptualize about the kinds of technology that "they" would be using.

You know I wanted to write a thread about this but I am trying to find legitimate occurrences of aliens lying to humans. For so long, I saw that the beings are truly masters of deception, but I didn't want an advanced being with a larger brain size to be masters of deception because I figured that would mean the beings were more 'spiritually awake' or knowledgeable about the creator of the universe. And we have accounts of aliens believing in a God as a universal force and the body as a 'vessel' or 'container' of the same force, but the interaction was complete one sided and it was confusing, until recently I learned that the larger the mind the more capable and the more prone it is to deceit.

Neocortex size predicts deception rate in primates.
We show that the use of deception within the primates is well predicted by the neocortical volume, when observer effort is controlled for; by contrast, neither the size of the rest of the brain nor the group size exert significant effects. These findings are consistent with the hypothesis that neocortical expansion has been driven by social challenges among the primates. Complex social manipulations such as deception are thought to be based upon rapid learning and extensive social knowledge; thus, learning in social contexts may be constrained by neocortical size.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I don't think they've left. I have a theory that the 1947-1982 'peak' represented a kind of cultural conditioning to the concept of other, more technologically advanced (or even esoteric) civilizations and entities. Running into a Kardashev II civilization in 1947 probably could have led to a serious social meltdown or something. What we seem to have taken away from the whole thing is a widespread, if not growing, belief that we are not alone. Kit Green mentions this in Mirage Men, albit from the perspective of the US government. There has been more then enough time for various ET's to swing through the solar system, do their things, and leave a covert presence behind to see if the silly primates on this rock blow themselves up (the phenomena did seem to be interested in nuclear facilities). Its hard to hide in space (thermal management) - but the biosphere is hot, wet, and crowded enough to conceal a nanotechnological presence.

Anything is possible but there was a trail of evidence, that which completely supports Roswell, an alien invasion over the western hemisphere peaking in operations in 1977. In the 1990s you still had abductions and cattle mutilations in America. Then as they stopped in America around the new millennium the exact same type of events that happened around Skinwalker ranch in the mid 90s were happening in Argentina 10 years later at the bottom of western hemisphere. As if they saw that America was beginning to discuss every little bit of the media on youtube so they went to a place more hidden. The amount of evidences left that were as mysterious as those during the years of invasion during the last decade in America are isolated. It would make logical sense that maybe some strongholds aren't completely closed down but they are not here for the same information. I mean look at how 'monotone' civilization was before the aliens came, it was all the same in so many aspects. Then you had a gigantic social movement and change where everyone was unique. Now people are trying to be different and unique by copying that time of change but the vibe and atmosphere as gone down to that same monotone just left with a ton of technology everywhere.

greyer

1ofthe9
This is the problem when you're trying to prove the existence of a technological ET presence. - they would be capable of 'moving the goal posts'. If there are here, they would seem to have been present for quite some time. Any interaction that we've had with "them" would be pretty one sided - and with the deception element that Vallee and Keel talked about, I'd say what we saw was what "they" wanted us to see. They would also be well-aware of our technological development, and would know to tone things down as we got more advanced and began to conceptualize about the kinds of technology that "they" would be using.

You know I wanted to write a thread about this but I am trying to find legitimate occurrences of aliens lying to humans. For so long, I saw that the beings are truly masters of deception, but I didn't want an advanced being with a larger brain size to be masters of deception because I figured that would mean the beings were more 'spiritually awake' or knowledgeable about the creator of the universe. And we have accounts of aliens believing in a God as a universal force and the body as a 'vessel' or 'container' of the same force, but the interaction was complete one sided and it was confusing, until recently I learned that the larger the mind the more capable and the more prone it is to deceit.

Neocortex size predicts deception rate in primates.
We show that the use of deception within the primates is well predicted by the neocortical volume, when observer effort is controlled for; by contrast, neither the size of the rest of the brain nor the group size exert significant effects. These findings are consistent with the hypothesis that neocortical expansion has been driven by social challenges among the primates. Complex social manipulations such as deception are thought to be based upon rapid learning and extensive social knowledge; thus, learning in social contexts may be constrained by neocortical size.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I don't think they've left. I have a theory that the 1947-1982 'peak' represented a kind of cultural conditioning to the concept of other, more technologically advanced (or even esoteric) civilizations and entities. Running into a Kardashev II civilization in 1947 probably could have led to a serious social meltdown or something. What we seem to have taken away from the whole thing is a widespread, if not growing, belief that we are not alone. Kit Green mentions this in Mirage Men, albit from the perspective of the US government. There has been more then enough time for various ET's to swing through the solar system, do their things, and leave a covert presence behind to see if the silly primates on this rock blow themselves up (the phenomena did seem to be interested in nuclear facilities). Its hard to hide in space (thermal management) - but the biosphere is hot, wet, and crowded enough to conceal a nanotechnological presence.

Anything is possible but there was a trail of evidence, that which completely supports Roswell, an alien invasion over the western hemisphere peaking in operations in 1977. In the 1990s you still had abductions and cattle mutilations in America. Then as they stopped in America around the new millennium the exact same type of events that happened around Skinwalker ranch in the mid 90s were happening in Argentina 10 years later at the bottom of western hemisphere. As if they saw that America was beginning to discuss every little bit of the media on youtube so they went to a place more hidden. The amount of evidences left that were as mysterious as those during the years of invasion during the last decade in America are isolated. It would make logical sense that maybe some strongholds aren't completely closed down but they are not here for the same information. I mean look at how 'monotone' civilization was before the aliens came, it was all the same in so many aspects. Then you had a gigantic social movement and change where everyone was unique. Now people are trying to be different and unique by copying that time of change but the vibe and atmosphere as gone down to that same monotone just left with a ton of technology everywhere.

I think you may want to read The Trickster and the Paranormal.

It hasn't gone away completely - just in 'the west'. Iran, China, Mongolia... Iran is interesting given the rule of the ayatollahs and the tension between youth and the gentrocratic religious state...

Carl Raschke wrote a interesting paper called 'UFOs: Ultra terrestrial Agents of Cultural Deconsrruction'. I will try to find and read it today, as it might prove to be very interesting...
robalini.blogspot.ca...