How Does Going to Hell Look Like?

akushla99

OneManArmy
Hell and the near death experience.

As with heaven, there are various hell realms witnessed by near-death experiencers. We can even see many manifestations of hell right here in the physical realm. There are people in prison, in the Bahamas, in mental institutions, universities, skid row, palaces, crack houses, all kinds of life situations. While hell realms can be seen outside all around the world as a manifestation of an inner hell within humans, hell realms in the spirit world are an even greater manifestation of inner hell within humans. Near-death accounts show that the hell realms in the spirit world are actually the spiritual/mental manifestations of spiritual conditions that humans create within themselves while on Earth.

"Why do some people have NDEs that resembles the fire and brimstone hell of the Bible while other people describe a different kind of hell? The quick answer is that there are many kinds of hells and many kinds of heavens. A person's situation in life and after death is based upon many factors including: perception, perspective, cultural and religious background, spirituality or lack thereof, and education. If you examine enough hellish NDEs that resemble the traditional hellfire and brimstone, you will notice that they mostly occur to fundamentalist Christians.

Source

edit on 201311America/Chicago11pm11pmSat, 23 Nov 2013 13:56:39 -06001113 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)

This bears more consideration, and is tied into free will mandate...Bardo Thodol and to a certain extent, The Egyptian Book of the Dead address the mechanisms involved, and the navigation through them, athiest and theist alike...as niether is exempt from these generationaly created realms.

Å99

Indeed, none of us are exempt from death, regardless of what we believe when we get there.

OneManArmy

akushla99

OneManArmy
Hell and the near death experience.

As with heaven, there are various hell realms witnessed by near-death experiencers. We can even see many manifestations of hell right here in the physical realm. There are people in prison, in the Bahamas, in mental institutions, universities, skid row, palaces, crack houses, all kinds of life situations. While hell realms can be seen outside all around the world as a manifestation of an inner hell within humans, hell realms in the spirit world are an even greater manifestation of inner hell within humans. Near-death accounts show that the hell realms in the spirit world are actually the spiritual/mental manifestations of spiritual conditions that humans create within themselves while on Earth.

"Why do some people have NDEs that resembles the fire and brimstone hell of the Bible while other people describe a different kind of hell? The quick answer is that there are many kinds of hells and many kinds of heavens. A person's situation in life and after death is based upon many factors including: perception, perspective, cultural and religious background, spirituality or lack thereof, and education. If you examine enough hellish NDEs that resemble the traditional hellfire and brimstone, you will notice that they mostly occur to fundamentalist Christians.

Source

edit on 201311America/Chicago11pm11pmSat, 23 Nov 2013 13:56:39 -06001113 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)

This bears more consideration, and is tied into free will mandate...Bardo Thodol and to a certain extent, The Egyptian Book of the Dead address the mechanisms involved, and the navigation through them, athiest and theist alike...as niether is exempt from these generationaly created realms.

Å99

Indeed, none of us are exempt from death, regardless of what we believe when we get there.

Au contraire...it is the conscious creation of them - solidification and constant energy, passed down generation by generation, that, ensures that they are there (whatever flavour they may be)...thier existence relies almost cause-and-effect-wise upon the energy they are given to be able to 'exist'.

Life and death are a cycle...and it is only in life that you are sure your physical will die, only once...

Å99

reply to post by OneManArmy


Yes, because we all die, there's no escaping the truth and the reality, so it makes sense to be rid in this life of that which causes us to sin, because there's one small part that ain't coming along with us, into heaven whatever heaven might be or whatever wonders it might hold in store, because God is all-good, and because there's no hell, in heaven.

All manner of attachment to wealth and power and fame, addiction, and willful close-mindedness, and more than anything a closed, cold heart, and false pride, are the things that will lead to hell. Everything that would substitute an authentic expression of God's love for the limited, narrow and contracted self or a self glorification at the expense of others, that isn't for our mutual benefit, would be a recipe for hell. And who among us hasn't been there done that got the t-shirt in one way or another, and so we're all in need of a saving grace and of forgiveness and a transcendent love even in spite of ourselves. Thus what might have been evil, in hindsight from the POV of salvation and forgiveness is rendered, at best, rather funny if not utterly absurd.

In particular, preachers who preach, but without the love of God in Christ, and who's "mission" drains away God's love and the opportunity it presents, which is unlimited, are in a dire predicament, because the Bible will not save them when their heart and the fruit of their labors, is examined. They may protests and say "but I preached your word to the ends of the earth and cast out demons in your name, and forced conversions under threat of hellfire and damnation?!"

"If we insist on keeping Hell (or even earth) we shall not see Heaven: if we accept Heaven then we shall not be able to retain even the smallest and most intimate souvenirs of Hell."
~ C.S. Lewis

NewAgeMan
This is what the cross teaches us - that God is all-good and that God can uphold the twin pillars of Justice, and Mercy, without making any compromise whatsoever with sin and evil.

Furthermore, there is no room in heaven for any bit of hell.

“No, there is no escape. There is no heaven with a little of hell in it - no place to retain this or that of the devil in our hearts or our pockets. Out Satan must go, every hair and feather.”

― George MacDonald

The Great Divorce - Free Download

“No, there is no escape. There is no heaven with a little of hell in it - no place to retain this or that of the devil in our hearts or our pockets. Out Satan must go, every hair and feather.”

― George MacDonald

reply to post by OneManArmy

So anyone not fortunate enough to be born into a society that follows the new testament, or to come across the new testament themselves be damned?

Doesnt sound like the actions of a fair and just god to me.

You are looking at it from a negative point of view.
God doesn't have to "damn" anyone to Hell.
That happens naturally, with no god necessary other than a nasty sort of spirit beings who more than happy to escort your soul down to that place.
Jesus' goal is to save people from that fate but you have to accept him and believe in him, which includes taking upon yourself his form of righteousness.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

This idea that a person can be "saved" by fear and threat of hell cannot serve or function as the basis for salvation . . .

If you were to "take care of" the hell problem yourself, then you don't hardly need Jesus, do you?
In that case, you are not saved.

He didn't get the love part, didn't receive it, and his repentance wasn't authentic, nor his love for God because his salvation wasn't authentic. He couldn't trust it.

Maybe because it wasn't "authentic", if he was being told that he was saved by merely believing that he was saved.
Real salvation is by giving up sinful pursuits, and this "instant salvation" does not address that or give any solutions to what a true repentance demands.
One has to pray for God's spirit to be given to you through Jesus to live a righteous life to be truly saved.

jmdewey60
reply to post by OneManArmy

which includes taking upon yourself his form of righteousness.

That will certain help as a preparatory measure, but can we be so righteous as to earn heaven? Would we still not end up there on account of God's mercy and love?

Might "righteous" people who leave no room for God's mercy and forgiveness, even forgiveness of "sins of omission" (that they were unaware of) not find themselves in a terrible predicament?

jmdewey60
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

This idea that a person can be "saved" by fear and threat of hell cannot serve or function as the basis for salvation . . .

If you were to "take care of" the hell problem yourself, then you don't hardly need Jesus, do you?
In that case, you are not saved.

You totally misunderstood and twisted the point that I was making. God's love saved us, and there is no opportunity to respond freely to that love by threat or fear, and there's no fear at all in the joy of salvation, which is rendered absurd in hindsight, meaning that the possibility of hell has been removed, but only because it was taken care of not by one's self, but by God's love in Jesus Christ.

For someone to proffer hell and the threat or fear of hell as a means by which to extract a "salvation" well that's no real salvation, at all.

The inverse of that would be a person who believes that by being good enough they can earn or deserve a place in heaven, or get there from here on their own steam and in accordance with their own "righteousness", which is still motivated for or driven by all the wrong reasons, at the basis of which there may still be a fear of hell, so what they are attempting is what C.S. Lewis would call a mercenary salvation and accompanying "righteousness". Nevertheless if their desire is to please God for the sake of love, in all humility, then that's a good motive.

The gift is a free gift by an unmerited grace, which draws us into ever increasing spheres of God's love by which our sinful nature falls away of it's own accord for the absurd nonsense that it is, or was.

TYING to be good, in order not to not be bad (if you know what I mean), or to escape hell because of fear isn't going to get a person into heaven, when they present themselves and say to God, look at how righteous I am, and I did this and was good because I feared that you would send me to hell, can I come in now? How funny and sad is that?

Good is it's own reward, and so probably too is heaven as the Reality.

We all fall short of the glory of God, but that's no excuse to keep on sinning (another absurdity).

Spiritual pride is the worst sin of all, and probably the last temptation of the evil one.

jmdewey60

One has to pray for God's spirit to be given to you through Jesus to live a righteous life to be truly saved.

Well one could hardly be saved if their motivation and drive is to continue to lead a sinful life, but we all do sin, preferably in smaller ways than bigger ones, so when we must sin we ought to sin with courage that God's love and salvation transcends our sin. In so doing the compulsion to sin is undermined to the point that it becomes a joke in the space of real freedom.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

That will certain help as a preparatory measure, but can we be so righteous as to earn heaven? Would we still not end up there on account of God's mercy and love?

Do you ever watch any movies?
Did Thor "earn" the right to use the hammer after Odin said that only someone worthy could use it?
Or did he just become a better person?

Maybe "ending up here" is a privilege and not a consolation.
It is better than ending up in Hell.
If you eliminate a literal "going to Heaven" then "ending up here" would be the obvious replacement.

Might "righteous" people who leave no room for God's mercy and forgiveness, even forgiveness of "sins of omission" (that they were unaware of) not find themselves in a terrible predicament?

That would contradict the definition of "being righteous".

reply to post by jmdewey60


Just how good are you?

And why is it that you are so good?

jmdewey60
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

That will certain help as a preparatory measure, but can we be so righteous as to earn heaven? Would we still not end up there on account of God's mercy and love?

Do you ever watch any movies?
Did Thor "earn" the right to use the hammer after Odin said that only someone worthy could use it?
Or did he just become a better person?

Maybe "ending up here" is a privilege and not a consolation.
It is better than ending up in Hell.
If you eliminate a literal "going to Heaven" then "ending up here" would be the obvious replacement.

Might "righteous" people who leave no room for God's mercy and forgiveness, even forgiveness of "sins of omission" (that they were unaware of) not find themselves in a terrible predicament?

That would contradict the definition of "being righteous".

From the perspective of reincarnation, we reap what we sow, and only inherit that which we leave to our children.
So we can start to create heaven on earth today, so we can experience it tomorrow(in our next incarnation).
Just a thought I just had in another thread.
It only leaves fear of what we create for ourselves on the next "ride" of life and material existence.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

The inverse of that would be a person who believes that by being good enough they can earn or deserve a place in heaven, or get there from here on their own steam and in accordance with their own righteousness, which is still motivated for the wrong reasons, at the basis of which there may still be a fear of hell, so what they are attempting is what C.S. Lewis would call a mercenary salvation.

I'm not a fan of C.S. Lewis' who I think of as the Dr. Phil of the 40's.
What you are describing is a hypothetical situation and you could apply it to any sort of social networking. There is always a certain percentage of sociopaths, but I don't think normal people think like that.
On the other hand, there is a type of religion that is very popular that says that you only need believe and what you do can have no effect on your salvation.

The gift is a free gift by an unmerited grace, which draws us into ever increasing spheres of God's love by which our sinful nature falls away of it's own accord for the absurd nonsense that it is, or was.

That's a theory. It might be impressive if you could point out where the Bible says that.

TYING to be good, in order not to not be bad (if you know what I mean), or to escape hell because of fear isn't going to get a person into heaven, when they present themselves and say to God, look at how righteous I am, and I did this and was good because I feared that you would send me to hell, can I come in now? How funny and sad is that?

That would fit with what the Bible says better.
Read the Book of Job.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Well one could hardly be saved if their motivation and drive is to continue to lead a sinful life, but we all do sin, preferably in smaller ways than bigger ones, so when we must sin we ought to sin with courage that God's love and salvation transcends our sin. In so doing the compulsion to sin is undermined to the point that it becomes a joke in the space of real freedom.

You may have a different idea of the definition of sin. Like maybe forgetting to brush your teeth after a meal.
Sin is like going next door after your neighbor goes to work and having sex with his wife.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Faith without works is dead, but the works are motivated by love, and service and goodness as their own reward in the same way that heaven will be it's own reward, not earned or deserved because of good works. There's no threat or fear of hell or condemnation in it, at all. Then again, as Lewis has pointed out, there would be nothing better than to hear the words "well done my good and faithful servant!" so that element of the need to be recognized and rewarded is a part of the motivation, but it can't be the main part, as anyone who engages in selfless service, knows.

jmdewey60
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Well one could hardly be saved if their motivation and drive is to continue to lead a sinful life, but we all do sin, preferably in smaller ways than bigger ones, so when we must sin we ought to sin with courage that God's love and salvation transcends our sin. In so doing the compulsion to sin is undermined to the point that it becomes a joke in the space of real freedom.

You may have a different idea of the definition of sin. Like maybe forgetting to brush your teeth after a meal.
Sin is like going next door after your neighbor goes to work and having sex with his wife.

edit on 23-11-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Sin = Lust, Greed, Wrath, Sloth, Gluttony, Envy and Pride.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Just how good are you?

And why is it that you are so good?

Because I know that I have to be in order to be able to stand before a righteous God.

The big lie, to me, is this belief that is popular that there is a vicarious righteousness, where Jesus stands in for you in judgment and God says, "You may pass." because He sees Jesus' life instead of yours.
There is nothing in the Bible like that.
We have an intercessor in this life that gives us blessings, but I think that it is just fiction to extend the meaning of that word to include taking our place.
Job said, "I know that I will stand before God in the flesh."

reply to post by jmdewey60


Wow! I'm impressed. Good luck with that! But if you see me crawling up, face down, and in tears, will you lend me a hand and help me to stand up? If Jesus will not and cannot do it, maybe you can help me, because I almost compulsively fall short of God's glory and righteousness, although his life and spirit is in me, however much I manage to cause it to grieve. And no my sins are not THAT great, but I am an addictive type of personality, all or nothing with a tendency toward self gratification. Forgive me because I have sinned, and I will be in dire need of friends like you when the time comes. May you serve as a model for my increasing righteousness.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Job's righteousness, if I understand correctly, was put to the test in a big way, even to the degree that HE questioned God over what happened and why, in response to which, if I'm not mistaken, God blasted him from the whirlwind, to basically say - how dare you! Only then was everything restored to him, and then some + +. A rather harsh lesson in self righteousness, even of the authentic variety, if you ask me.

God saved you from hell because of his love.

But now you seem to think that you can and simply MUST be good enough to make it into heaven..!

It must be "hell" that kind of pressure to perform.

But I totally get what you're talking about, and it sounds eerily similar to the theology of my young friend who was "saved" based on the 'ol fire and brimstone preaching of the likes of RevGen.

Of course salvation is of no real value unless it brings about and evokes a real change of heart and a transformation, making out of a complete wreck, a work in progress, but there are still gaps in our integrity, you see, which can only be filled, to make us whole, in Christ, who does need to stand in for us and intercede.

The idea that this is a license to sin, is absurd, and totally misses the point, which when understood brings about a voluntary repentance and the desire to be good for goodness' sake, and for the sake of the same love we encountered on being forgiven, which is it's own reward, where sin hurts and instructs in a much more negative manner when we need more "education" in that regard. See how funny it is?

"He who has been forgiven more, loves more."
~ Jesus

Something tells me that you've missed the point and didn't really get the joke because of the horror you experienced, which might very well have been created or generated by your own doing with God simply pointing out where that leads..

Now you think that you cannot face God unless you appear to him as righteous as, well, as God himself as Jesus Christ.

I think that both you and I have been much MUCH too hard on ourselves, and that we are well served to shed a few tears and be forgiven, again, (lol), and to have those tears wiped away from our eyes by the loving hand of Jesus himself, until we smile, and even giggle and laugh like little children. We cannot be entirely serious and stoic-like in the magnitude of the triumph and joy of our salvation, which came to us even in spite of ourselves and in my case that's an understatement! Sometimes when I come across the Parable of the Prodigal Son I think that Jesus secretly had me myself in mind when he told it, like some sort of prophecy!

And if you truly are righteous, then as my righteous brother who's been working the farm all along - will you come in and join the party and help celebrate my return? There's fatted calf..?!!!


Does any of that make sense?

Best Regards,

NAM aka Bob

reply to post by NewAgeMan

"He who has been forgiven more, loves more."
~ Jesus

That's kind of an anti-quote.
Jesus asked his host a question about two men being forgiven their debt that they could not pay.
The host, Simon, answered that the one who owed more would love more.
The woman showed her love for Jesus before he told her that she was forgiven.
She had faith that she would be forgiven, apparently, by his remark that her faith saved her (at the end of the scene).
This isn't just a story that is in there as a sort of historical account but is put in as a lesson about love and forgiveness. She showed him love and she was forgiven, not the other way around.
Simon states that Jesus didn't know who she was, so there wasn't a behind-the-scenes forgiveness episode that doesn't get mentioned that happened earlier.
So did she "earn" her forgiveness?
I think that's the point.
People don't suffer for the love of it as if there was some intrinsic value in suffering.
They do it first because they love.
You can love God through Jesus because he is the face of God.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I don't know about you, but he loved me first and was well ahead of me and my "curve", even caught me on more than one occasion like a net prepared in advance for my fall. His love precedes us, and when we fall in love we realize this, that as we were running away, God was in pursuit and watching over us step by step, even as we walked or ran in the wrong direction, and once found, on making our return having come to our sense we realize that in some way we were never completely lost no matter what hell we might have once inhabited. God does and can get people out of hell. They didn't do it.

You did not engineer your own salvation.