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Courts Quietly Confirm MMR Vaccine Causes Autism

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posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 07:09 AM
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Rubinstein

Pardon?
Where's the list?


Here's a list below of some of the autoimmune diseases which can be triggered by vaccines to start you off, there are many more and all kinds of obscure disease subtypes which vaccines can cause. Here also is a link to a huge number diseases, disorders and events which vaccines can cause Vaccination Diseases


THATS your source? Your going to use THAT source as ammunition for your claim? Wooow, this thread just keeps getting better and better! Hahahahaha.

As for the list itself, totally insane. Well done for inadvertantly debunking your own theory.




posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 07:19 AM
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angryhulk

THATS your source? Your going to use THAT source as ammunition for your claim? Wooow, this thread just keeps getting better and better! Hahahahaha.

As for the list itself, totally insane. Well done for inadvertantly debunking your own theory.


The source is actually very well sourced, you go on believing what you want to believe, I'll stay true to the science. Those who can think critically know what's going on with vaccines. Your posts so far have all lacked substance and shown no experience/knowledge on this topic.
edit on 4-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 08:37 AM
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Rubinstein

angryhulk

THATS your source? Your going to use THAT source as ammunition for your claim? Wooow, this thread just keeps getting better and better! Hahahahaha.

As for the list itself, totally insane. Well done for inadvertantly debunking your own theory.


The source is actually very well sourced, you go on believing what you want to believe, I'll stay true to the science. Those who can think critically know what's going on with vaccines. Your posts so far have all lacked substance and shown no experience/knowledge on this topic.
edit on 4-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)


Actually I provided all the sources I needed to (regarding mr. wakefield) on the first page of this thread. Remember that's what this thread is about.

You probably missed that (I forgive you) hahaha.

And talking about experience, my daughter is fine following her vaccine, and so are my friends children. That's all the experience I need.

Knowledge is a different thing altogether of course, and no I don't know how a vaccine works, I also don't know what exactly is in them, however I don't pretend to know everything on the subject (like you) by copying and pasting utter nonsense from ridiculous websites.

However, what I do know is how to research a topic correctly and provide factual information from trusted sources (albeit not all sources are perfect, yours are absolutely insane).
edit on 4/12/13 by angryhulk because: ATS mobile site isn't easy! Ha



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by OneManArmy
 





Notice the mortality rate of measles was falling dramatically long before the vaccinations even began.
Source

I posted the source of the 1/1500 - 1/5000 mortality rate in the UK earlier in the thread, I will try to find it later, Im going to bed right now.


The fact that the mortality rate was falling before vaccination is non relevant. Improving medical care and health caused it. It doesn't mean that the decrease keeps occuring after a certain point. That's the same bs you see on the child health safety site. That guy kept insisting the mortality was one in millions even though I posted him the data showing that he was incorrect. The way you work out a mortality is by cases divided by fatalities; actual hard facts, not by some projection that isn't backed up by current statistics.

Unless your stats show the outbreaks they derive from with number of infected and mortalities, they are not reliable. I only use primary source data not second hand numbers; I dig up the numbers myself. I will concede that 1/1500 or even higher might be typical for healthy adults infected. However in a totally unvaccinated scenario nearly everyone gets measles in young childhood, and the mortality rate for the very young/frail is way higher. You might get lucky with a less virulent strain doing the rounds, as seems to have happened in Wales recently, or a unlucky with nastier one which has a much higher death rate, like that school in Philledelphia. I took the two European outbreaks as my control group because they had access to free, good quality public health care and had no vaccinations due to religious reasons (for the most part).

I have kids, they've both had all their jabs and are fine. I know a friend whose eldest is mildly autistic so, she didn't vaccinate her younger, and he has exactly the same type of asd as the elder, so she went and had him vaccinated after the diagnosis.

I'm not young. I remember kids who would now be diagnosed as autistic and adhd being called naughty, sensitive, weird when I was a child and teen. They changed the diagnostic criteria for autism in the 80's, and suddenly all these odd but functioning kids are being called autistic. Me included, as I have mild HF Aspergers which just wasn't on the radar back then. There hasn't been any change in the number of severely autustic kids diagnosed, it's all been in the milder cases.

I also have a relative who swears her autistic son was fine before vaccination. She's not remembering how at pre jab age she was telling me how funny he was around strangers, slow to speak he was and how he always had a dodgy tummy and would only eat a limited range of stuff. After his diagnosis she swore he was normal before. Selective memory. He also has a significant 'odd/misshapen' look to his face, and that only happens in early foetal development. So I take anecdotal evidence with a pinch of salt in autism cases due to experience.

Autistic kids can have a very nasty reaction to the jab, as co morbity with epilepsy and other conditions is common. I suspect that's where a lot of this grief started; undiagnosed mildly autistic kids getting a bad reaction. Their behavioural differences typically get more obvious in the age group that gets vaccinated, they fail to hit milestones about this point, and they deviate further from their peers as they get older. Gettng further behind in speech etc. It's easy to see how the jab got the blame.

However, measles encephalitis can cause brain damage that mimics primary autism. That's been known in very rare cases with vaccines, but the kid will have been in the ICU for weeks before, so it's very obvious when it happens. Caused (exremely rarely) by the live virus in the vaccine. Also sometimes caused by chickenpox and cold sore virus.I suspect any damage that could possibly be caused by a live virus vaccine, will be caused by the wild virus, and way worse by the wild virus. It's a case of which does least harm.

I have nineteen studies about the frequency of autism in the population. If you are interested I'll post links to some/all as requested.

sigh, incapable of short posts.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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Rates of all kinds of autoimmune disease have increases. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with vaccinations, it has to with the lower level of exposure to all kinds of parasites and germs and increasing use of antibiotics in childhood.

It's apparently passed you by the Crohns is treated with intestinal worms, and MS subsides too.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


Several studies implicate infectious and non-infectious environmental factors present during childhood and young adulthood as strong determinants of MS risk, although their exact nature remains unidentified. Microbial infections can act as triggers inducing or promoting autoimmunity, resulting in clinical disease manifestations in genetically predisposed individuals.[/exnews

and


Several studies both in humans and in animal models have shown helminths to be powerful modulators of host immune responses (La Flamme et al., 2003; Sewell et al., 2003; Jankovic et al., 2006). Following this premise, we recently demonstrated that helminth-infected MS patients showed significantly lower disease activity, compared to uninfected MS subjects (Correale and Farez, 2007)




Just a sample of much work showing vaccinations have nothing to do with MS.

you've got tunnel vision rube.

edit on 4-12-2013 by Antigod because: buggered it up



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:08 PM
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Antigod

Rates of all kinds of autoimmune disease have increases. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with vaccinations, it has to with the lower level of exposure to all kinds of parasites and germs and increasing use of antibiotics in childhood.

It's apparently passed you by the Crohns is treated with intestinal worms, and MS subsides too.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


You really think for one moment that the pharmaceuticals want to prove that vaccines cause Autoimmune diseases? You think they want to put people off their vaccines? Stop being naive, you've already been provided a high quality PLOS One Study showing that vaccines cause autoimmune disease, now you come up with a corporate McStudy and thing that's going to change anything; you need to learn to check for conflicts of interest.

From your link:-

Conflict of interest statement "Jorge Correale is a board member of Merck-Serono Argentina, Novartis Argentina, Biogen-Idec LATAm, and Merck Serono LATAM. Dr. Correale has received reimbursement for developing educational presentations for Merck-Serono Argentina y LATAM, Biogen – Idec Argentina, and TEVA-Tuteur Argentina as well as professional travel accommodations stipends. "


edit on 4-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:08 PM
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OneManArmy

Antigod
reply to post by OneManArmy
 





Show me one baby that has died as a result of MY opinion


Hang about and I'll get the news item on the measles deaths in America n school.




www.nytimes.com...




A sixth child whose family opposes measles vaccinations for religious reasons died here today, and five others were inoculated against the disease undercourt order


Well that's one. A few years ago a group of them died.


That was before this thread even existed, it couldnt have been MY opinion. I only formed mine in the last couple of months.
My whole argument has been that the measles disease mortality is equal to the vaccine..
1/1500 to 1/5000. Measles has a higher mortality in the third world with poor hygeine, diet, and health care.
I posted much "official" stats showing that the risk of measles is overblown in the first world.


Rather intellectually dishonest of you to miss out the incidence rate of measles pre and post vaccination, don't you think?

Have a look and see:




Here’s the problem. It’s not surprising that death rates were declining before introduction of the vaccines. Medicine was improving. More importantly, supportive care was improving. For example, take the case of polio. Before the introduction of the iron lung and its widespread use, for example, if a polio patient developed paralysis of the respiratory muscles, he would almost certainly die. The iron lung allowed such patients to live. Some even survived in an iron lung for decades. No doubt improved nutrition also played a role as well. However, if you want to get an idea of the impact of vaccines on infectious disease, take a look at this graph from the CDC of measles incidence, not death rates:


www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...
edit on 4-12-2013 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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angryhulk
And talking about experience, my daughter is fine following her vaccine, and so are my friends children. That's all the experience I need.



How do you know if it effected their intelligence? A mother told me her kids were fine after vaccination yet one has Asthma and the other a life-threatening Peanut Allergy. (both are caused by vaccines) How do you know your kids won't come down with Non Hodgkin Lymphoma, or get Alzheimer's in their later years? You over-simplify, and even if you kids did get through the game of Russia Roulette that doesn't mean everyone's kids did; you got lucky.

Would you let your kids go on a rollercoaster ride which had a 1 in 60 chance of sending them Autistic? I'm sure you wouldn't, yet you've been sweetened up by propaganda and marketing, pharma makes you feel safe and warm, you're a follower of the Big Pharma Religion, a believer, you can no longer think for yourself and think critically about the pros and cons of vaccines.
edit on 4-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:20 PM
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GetHyped

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...
edit on 4-12-2013 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)


Quick heads-up GetHyped, that's a well-known Pharma Shill site and should never be used as a source on forums, people will end up thinking you're a shill too, but I know you might not be so that's why I'm letting you know.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:28 PM
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angryhulk

However, what I do know is how to research a topic correctly and provide factual information from trusted sources (albeit not all sources are perfect, yours are absolutely insane)


You are overconfident with your research skills, you've fallen straight into the trap which the propaganists set for you, you believe what you want to believe. You would only doubt vaccines if you found anti-vaccine information on BBC or CNN, you are not someone who thinks for yourself, you have people/sources you trust, you allow them to spoonfeed you and provide you with opinions which then become yours; unfortunately your trust is misplaced. These people who tell you to vaccinate because they are paid to tell you that, will not be vaccinating their own children as they know better. Why do you think doctors don't vaccinate their children? Your lazy thinking makes you vulnerable and allows people to scam you easily.

edit on 4-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Rubinstein
 





You really think for one moment that the pharmaceuticals want to prove that vaccines cause Autoimmune diseases? You think they want to put people off their vaccines? Stop being naive, you've already been provided a high quality PLOS One Study showing that vaccines cause autoimmune disease, now you come up with a corporate McStudy and thing that's going to change anything; you need to learn to check for conflicts of interest.

From your link


And yet Wakefield, who was trying to flog his own vaccine was a saint, huh.

And I read the study, unike you. it wasn't about using a vaccine, they were stimulating a system with a known antigen whch was unstated but could have been peanut oil for all you know. In fact, it's well known that repeated exposure to peanut oil causes autoimmune problems.The fact you pasted a link to some hippy news site instead of the actual article speaks volumes. Always go to source and check. I suggest you get someone who understands the science to explain it after.

The article was about developing an autoimmune response to antigens, it did not claim anywhere that this antigen (unstated) caused anything like MS, or a wide variety of autoimmune diseases. IT DIDN'T MENTION DISEASE PREVENTING VACCINATIONS AT ALL. If you are relying on websites like that for your critical analysis, I'm not surprised at what you are posting.

FYI, Correales is not the only researcher chasing the parasite treatment down. I suppose you've taken the unshakable POV that absolutely everything that contradicts you is part of some mass conspiracy then?

So why are the drugs companies doing their damnest to prevent helmith therapy being brought in?
Hint... it works, it can't be patented and you only need a treatment every two years with some types. Autoimmune illnesses are their bg earner, they'd go broke PDQ.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by Rubinstein
 





You are overconfident with your research skills, you've falled straight into the trap which the propaganists set for you, you


This from a man posting the Gaia website as a credible scientific source, and who didn't even check the article to see if it was correctly interpreted.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Rubinstein
 





Quick heads-up GetHyped, that's a well-known Pharma Shill site and should never be used as a source on forums, people will end up thinking you're a shill too, but I know you might not be so that's why I'm letting you know


Off course.... because anything that disagres with you is funded by big pharma. Tragic.

Again, this from a man quoting from 'gaianews' or whatever that site was called. Not a man whose judgement can be trusted, and I recommend everyone checks up on every link he posts as his quality of source info is just shocking.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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Rubinstein

GetHyped

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...
edit on 4-12-2013 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)


Quick heads-up GetHyped, that's a well-known Pharma Shill site and should never be used as a source on forums, people will end up thinking you're a shill too, but I know you might not be so that's why I'm letting you know.


"Anyone who disagrees with me is a shill".

Nice thought-terminating cliche there.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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Antigod
And I read the study, unike you. it wasn't about using a vaccine, they were stimulating a system with a known antigen whch was unstated but could have been peanut oil for all you know.


I've read the study in detail a number of times as part of my job, that's how I came across it. You say it wasn't about using a vaccine, well do you know what an antigen is? For the record vaccines have antigens in them. Then you say that the antigen was unstated, that's not true, either you didn't read the study or you scanned too quickly.


Antigod
In fact, it's well known that repeated exposure to peanut oil causes autoimmune problems.


Peanut oil is used in vaccines, this is where peanut allergies come from



Antigod
The fact you pasted a link to some hippy news site instead of the actual article speaks volumes. Always go to source and check.


Not true, ATS wouldn't allow me to link to the original study, so I sent you a high quality website which discusses the study in a language which many will have a better chance of understanding. There's also a link to the study on the page.


Antigod
I suggest you get someone who understands the science to explain it after.


You're just trolling me there, we'll move on


Antigod
The article was about developing an autoimmune response to antigens, it did not claim anywhere that this antigen (unstated) caused anything like MS, or a wide variety of autoimmune diseases.


Let's look at the conclusion of the study

"Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality."

Admit it, you haven't read the study have you? Or perhaps you're fairly new to the topic of vaccines (nothing wrong with that). Vaccines have antigens in, antigens cause autoimmune diseases, given that a wide range of antigens are used by Big Pharma that means a wide range of autoimmune diseases. MS is autoimmune by the way, so if the antigens in vaccines cause autoimmune diseases (as the study states) then vaccines can also cause MS.



Antigod
IT DIDN'T MENTION DISEASE PREVENTING VACCINATIONS AT ALL. If you are relying on websites like that for your critical analysis, I'm not surprised at what you are posting.


It doesn't need to mention which vaccines, it mentions antigens which are in all vaccines. You are new to this I can tell, but don't worry, I don't want to put you off learning about vaccines, maybe one day in 5 years you'll come back here and be on my side of the debate. As I say, the website was only so as it would post on ATS and also to make it more readable for the majority of people.


Antigod
So why are the drugs companies doing their damnest to prevent helmith therapy being brought in?
Hint... it works, it can't be patented and you only need a treatment every two years with some types. Autoimmune illnesses are their bg earner, they'd go broke PDQ.


And now you've completely switched sides just to confuse me
edit on 4-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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Antigod

This from a man posting the Gaia website as a credible scientific source, and who didn't even check the article to see if it was correctly interpreted.


Gaia is a superb site, you'll find far superior and honest science compared to the McScience which the corporations churn out for their marketing/cover-up purposes. I'm sure deep down you know that but just prefer to not to admit. (or aren't allowed to admit it)

As I say, I read the study first, it didn't link in ATS (url too long perhaps), so I posted the Gaia discussion which links to the study.
edit on 4-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by Rubinstein
 

And Natural News, Whale.to, "Dr." Carley, etc. are acceptable sources? Oh, what a world.

Also, the cries of "shill!" are trite and obnoxious, no matter what subject is being discussed, but it was cute of you to shroud yours in concern trolling for the poster's reputation this time...



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Rubinstein
 


Why do you think doctors don't vaccinate their children?

I always see anti-vaxxers say this, but I have yet to see proof that even a slight majority, let alone the vast majority, of doctors do not vaccinate their own children.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by Rubinstein
 





Gaia is a superb site, you'll find far superior and honest science compared to the McScience which the corporations churn out for their marketing/cover-up purposes. I'm sure deep down you know that but just prefer to not to admit. (or aren't allowed to admit


LMFAO.

as a response to your claim that the article was referring to disease preventing vaccines- it said nothing of the sort anywhere it in. It said that treating with an antigen triggered an autoimmune reponse.

You've asumed it meant a vaccine because that idiot hippy site said it was. I challenge you to provide evidence it was in anyway referring to medical vaccines.

The full article is here:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Like I said, I check my material before I post. You obviously didn't bother to check the full text, and if if you did manfully failed to grasp what it meant.The antigen used was ovalbumin (egg). While I'm sure you''l get all hot and bothered and start squawking about egg in vaccines, but you get way more exposure through eating it.

if you'd bothered to get to the bottom you'd see it named environmental measles as an antigen. It's not a shock, viral infections are known to be implicated in triggering some autoimmune issues.


Living organisms are constantly exposed to a broad range of environmental antigens, as exemplified by the recent re-emergence of measles virus infection among a subpopulation of Japanese young adults who were not vaccinated against the virus


So much for your anti vaccine article.

I can tell you my flu jabs aggravate my MS not at all, but a bout of flu can flatten me for months. My worst attack was after glandular fever.You'd be interested to know, live virus vaccines aren't recommend for ms sufferers. FYI, if you don't vaccinate in a culture, measles infection rates are near 100%. So either way your going to get exposed.

You've got a weird blind spot rube. Viral infections are known to mess with autoimmune diseases, but you are way less likely to get an autoimmune dieases if you are routinely exposed to parasites.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...



Parasitic Helminths: New Weapons against Immunological Disorders
Yoshio Osada* and Tamotsu Kanazawa
Abstract
The prevalence of allergic and autoimmune diseases is increasing in developed countries, possibly due to reduced exposure to microorganisms in childhood (hygiene hypothesis). Epidemiological and experimental evidence in support of this hypothesis is accumulating. In this context, parasitic helminths are now important candidates for antiallergic/anti-inflammatory agents. Here we summarize antiallergic/anti-inflammatory effects of helminths together along with our own study of the effects of Schistosoma mansoni on Th17-dependent experimental arthritis. We also discuss possible mechanisms of helminth-induced suppression according to the recent advances of immunology


But of course, everything that disagrees with you is part of a conspiracy. You need meds.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by Rubinstein
 





r. Why do you think doctors don't vaccinate their children?


Yes they do. Provide statistical evidence to the contrary.



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