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Courts Quietly Confirm MMR Vaccine Causes Autism

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posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 02:45 PM
link   

Antigod


So you're claiming that all the published work by the researchers, that isn't meant for public consumption and is only read by other researchers, is there as misinformaton for he public?


To be fair we wouldnt have had the thalidomide scandal if the proper research had been done.
We wouldnt have had children being prescribed SSRI anti depressants like smarties without the research that isnt meant for public consumption making the GP's think everything was fine and dandy with prescribing them to kids.
We wouldnt have a massive over diagnosis of ADHD and kids being over prescribed ritalin for a mental disorder they dont even have if the research not meant for public consumption didnt make GP's think everything was fine with that.
And we also wouldnt have the exorbitant numbers of people killed by misdiagnosis and negligent doctors if the medical system was trustworthy.
We wouldnt have people made ill by drugs.
And we wouldnt have had known faulty "cheaper" MMR vaccinations given to children causing meningitis if the government or pharmaceutical companies actually cared about us.
And Aspartame would never have been passed by the CDC if the "proper" research had been done.
You only have to research the revolving door policy of corrupt politicians and pharmaceutical boardrooms to know that something is seriously wrong with the system.

Im sorry that you have MS, it is truly a terrible disease, I will always remember a woman that visited my school as a child, she had MS and explained how bad it was.




posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 02:50 PM
link   

OneManArmy

Pardon?


Deliberately being anti-vax is tantamount to child abuse.


Scare mongering and wild accusations is tantamount to lack of a better argument.
Deciding what is right for your children is tantamount to freedom.
Giving things to your children that you havent researched is tantamount to child abuse.
When all else fails and you start throwing accusations that are to paint people as "evil" is tantamount to losing an argument.
Not having a sense of humour, even during some of the darker subjects is tantamount to being "too damn serious".
So tell me please, how many small babies have died as a result of my "sense of humour"? Which I add is tantamount to expressing myself freely within the rules of the forum.
Dont cry mate, its only an opinion.
Have a tissue.
Take a break and come back when the emotional response can be replaced by rational argument, its tantamount to manners. Or you can just apologise and I will forget about it, but you havent apologised for anything so far, so I wont hold my breath.





You laughing is emotional, my response was rational but irrespective of the "rules of the forum" I found it in bad taste hence the comment (which is "within the rules of the forum").
Sadly, I wasn't surprised by it though.
Anti-vaxxers are generally unpleasant people.

Maybe no babies have died as a result of what you calla sense of humour but plenty have by your "opinions" on vaccines.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 03:01 PM
link   

Pardon?

OneManArmy

Pardon?


Deliberately being anti-vax is tantamount to child abuse.


Scare mongering and wild accusations is tantamount to lack of a better argument.
Deciding what is right for your children is tantamount to freedom.
Giving things to your children that you havent researched is tantamount to child abuse.
When all else fails and you start throwing accusations that are to paint people as "evil" is tantamount to losing an argument.
Not having a sense of humour, even during some of the darker subjects is tantamount to being "too damn serious".
So tell me please, how many small babies have died as a result of my "sense of humour"? Which I add is tantamount to expressing myself freely within the rules of the forum.
Dont cry mate, its only an opinion.
Have a tissue.
Take a break and come back when the emotional response can be replaced by rational argument, its tantamount to manners. Or you can just apologise and I will forget about it, but you havent apologised for anything so far, so I wont hold my breath.





You laughing is emotional, my response was rational but irrespective of the "rules of the forum" I found it in bad taste hence the comment (which is "within the rules of the forum").
Sadly, I wasn't surprised by it though.
Anti-vaxxers are generally unpleasant people.

Maybe no babies have died as a result of what you calla sense of humour but plenty have by your "opinions" on vaccines.


Show me one baby that has died as a result of MY opinion.
Calling me a murderer is quite a claim, one of the most extraordinary that has been directed at me, I hope you have the evidence to back it up, then you can present it to the police and get me locked up. You are saying Im obviously a danger to society.
Im finding you very unpleasant, people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.
For about the tenth time, IM NOT AN ANTI VAXXER, Im pro informed choice.
If you had taken the time to read what I had said all the other times you might have better understood my position.
So .... Making derogatory accusations that categorise me as part of a "conspiratorial" group are tantamount to lack of a better argument.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 03:09 PM
link   

OneManArmy

Antigod


So you're claiming that all the published work by the researchers, that isn't meant for public consumption and is only read by other researchers, is there as misinformaton for he public?


To be fair we wouldnt have had the thalidomide scandal if the proper research had been done.
We wouldnt have had children being prescribed SSRI anti depressants like smarties without the research that isnt meant for public consumption making the GP's think everything was fine and dandy with prescribing them to kids.
We wouldnt have a massive over diagnosis of ADHD and kids being over prescribed ritalin for a mental disorder they dont even have if the research not meant for public consumption didnt make GP's think everything was fine with that.
And we also wouldnt have the exorbitant numbers of people killed by misdiagnosis and negligent doctors if the medical system was trustworthy.
We wouldnt have people made ill by drugs.
And we wouldnt have had known faulty "cheaper" MMR vaccinations given to children causing meningitis if the government or pharmaceutical companies actually cared about us.
And Aspartame would never have been passed by the CDC if the "proper" research had been done.
You only have to research the revolving door policy of corrupt politicians and pharmaceutical boardrooms to know that something is seriously wrong with the system.

Im sorry that you have MS, it is truly a terrible disease, I will always remember a woman that visited my school as a child, she had MS and explained how bad it was.


Thalidomide was released when there weren't many guidelines and controls about drugs.
It was a couple of physicians who discovered the link.
Go back a bit further and see when heroin and coc aine were over the counter medications.
Thankfully things are a lot more stringent now.

I don't agree the way GP over prescribe anything, especially anti-depressants or other behaviour modification drugs. Even the most idiotic of us could deduce they're bound to have some side-effects. Their very nature means they have to.

Misdiagnosis and negligence unfortunately is part of the human condition, it's got nothing to do with trust.

Yep, some drugs make people ill but more make them better (for some reason that side of the fence is always omitted).

The "faulty" MMR vaccines still had a lower incidence of encephalitis than mumps and measles though.

Here's something most people won't agree with but aspartame isn't the poison you think it is.
Lots of myths around that I'm afraid.

And yes, since pharma companies are corporate in nature they will behave like other corporations.
What will change that? I don't know, I just hope something happens in my lifetime.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 03:18 PM
link   
reply to post by OneManArmy
 





To be fair we wouldnt have had the thalidomide scandal if the proper research had been done.
We wouldnt have had children being prescribed SSRI anti depressants like smarties without the research that isnt meant for public consumption making the GP's think everything was fine and dandy with prescribing them to kids.
We wouldnt have a massive over diagnosis of ADHD and kids being over prescribed ritalin for a mental disorder they dont even have if the research not meant for public consumption didnt make GP's think everything was fine with that.
And we also wouldnt have the exorbitant numbers of people killed by misdiagnosis and negligent doctors if the medical system was trustworthy.
We wouldnt have people made ill by drugs.
And we wouldnt have had known faulty "cheaper" MMR vaccinations given to children causing meningitis if the government or pharmaceutical companies actually cared about us.
And Aspartame would never have been passed by the CDC if the "proper" research had been done.
You only have to research the revolving door policy of corrupt politicians and pharmaceutical boardrooms to know that something is seriously wrong with the system.

Im sorry that you have MS, it is truly a terrible disease, I will always remember a woman that visited my school as a child, she had MS and explained how bad it was.


I'm not denying there are issues. But he's basically got to claim 90 percent plus of them are intentionally lying when they publish. And they would have to do it coherently.

Agree about the aspartame. Very dodgy dealings there.

Misdiagnosis can happen for all kinds of reasons. You'd have to assume mass malfeasance, and that's not realistic. People make mistakes, and multiple ailments have the same symptoms. It took ages to diagnose my MS for that reason.

Thalidomide happened a long time ago, the affect of tetragenic drugs was only just being investigated in general. Lumping it in with modern issues isn't appropriate.

Parents push to get an ADHD diagnosis in the UK as you get a lot of extra benefit money if diagnosed, and special school provision.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 03:22 PM
link   

Pardon?

OneManArmy

Antigod


So you're claiming that all the published work by the researchers, that isn't meant for public consumption and is only read by other researchers, is there as misinformaton for he public?


To be fair we wouldnt have had the thalidomide scandal if the proper research had been done.
We wouldnt have had children being prescribed SSRI anti depressants like smarties without the research that isnt meant for public consumption making the GP's think everything was fine and dandy with prescribing them to kids.
We wouldnt have a massive over diagnosis of ADHD and kids being over prescribed ritalin for a mental disorder they dont even have if the research not meant for public consumption didnt make GP's think everything was fine with that.
And we also wouldnt have the exorbitant numbers of people killed by misdiagnosis and negligent doctors if the medical system was trustworthy.
We wouldnt have people made ill by drugs.
And we wouldnt have had known faulty "cheaper" MMR vaccinations given to children causing meningitis if the government or pharmaceutical companies actually cared about us.
And Aspartame would never have been passed by the CDC if the "proper" research had been done.
You only have to research the revolving door policy of corrupt politicians and pharmaceutical boardrooms to know that something is seriously wrong with the system.

Im sorry that you have MS, it is truly a terrible disease, I will always remember a woman that visited my school as a child, she had MS and explained how bad it was.


Thalidomide was released when there weren't many guidelines and controls about drugs.
It was a couple of physicians who discovered the link.
Go back a bit further and see when heroin and coc aine were over the counter medications.
Thankfully things are a lot more stringent now.

I don't agree the way GP over prescribe anything, especially anti-depressants or other behaviour modification drugs. Even the most idiotic of us could deduce they're bound to have some side-effects. Their very nature means they have to.

Misdiagnosis and negligence unfortunately is part of the human condition, it's got nothing to do with trust.

Yep, some drugs make people ill but more make them better (for some reason that side of the fence is always omitted).

The "faulty" MMR vaccines still had a lower incidence of encephalitis than mumps and measles though.

Here's something most people won't agree with but aspartame isn't the poison you think it is.
Lots of myths around that I'm afraid.

And yes, since pharma companies are corporate in nature they will behave like other corporations.
What will change that? I don't know, I just hope something happens in my lifetime.


My best friend from school has just gotten over cancer, he needed a bone marrow transplant and spent a year in hospital. I dont hate all doctors, just the corrupt ones.
I agree with your whole post that I have just quoted, Im not the "bad guy" you think I am.
The only thing I dont fully agree with is the statement "The "faulty" MMR vaccines still had a lower incidence of encephalitis than mumps and measles though."
Im not sure about that due to the lack of good credible verifiable research into it. It may well be true, but I cannot find the stats that back up that statement. But the issue with the GSK MMR was meningitis and not encephalitis. But admittedly it was due to the mumps component not the measles one.

edit on 201312America/Chicago12pm12pmTue, 03 Dec 2013 15:24:48 -06001213 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 03:22 PM
link   

OneManArmy

Pardon?

OneManArmy

Pardon?


Deliberately being anti-vax is tantamount to child abuse.


Scare mongering and wild accusations is tantamount to lack of a better argument.
Deciding what is right for your children is tantamount to freedom.
Giving things to your children that you havent researched is tantamount to child abuse.
When all else fails and you start throwing accusations that are to paint people as "evil" is tantamount to losing an argument.
Not having a sense of humour, even during some of the darker subjects is tantamount to being "too damn serious".
So tell me please, how many small babies have died as a result of my "sense of humour"? Which I add is tantamount to expressing myself freely within the rules of the forum.
Dont cry mate, its only an opinion.
Have a tissue.
Take a break and come back when the emotional response can be replaced by rational argument, its tantamount to manners. Or you can just apologise and I will forget about it, but you havent apologised for anything so far, so I wont hold my breath.





You laughing is emotional, my response was rational but irrespective of the "rules of the forum" I found it in bad taste hence the comment (which is "within the rules of the forum").
Sadly, I wasn't surprised by it though.
Anti-vaxxers are generally unpleasant people.

Maybe no babies have died as a result of what you calla sense of humour but plenty have by your "opinions" on vaccines.


Show me one baby that has died as a result of MY opinion.
Calling me a murderer is quite a claim, one of the most extraordinary that has been directed at me, I hope you have the evidence to back it up, then you can present it to the police and get me locked up. You are saying Im obviously a danger to society.
Im finding you very unpleasant, people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.
For about the tenth time, IM NOT AN ANTI VAXXER, Im pro informed choice.
If you had taken the time to read what I had said all the other times you might have better understood my position.
So .... Making derogatory accusations that categorise me as part of a "conspiratorial" group are tantamount to lack of a better argument.


Stick with what I've written.
I've called your "opinions" dangerous, not you.

Consistently, your opinion has been one of an anti-pharma, anti-vaxxer, anti-government.
You've admitted two out of three but have been obvious in the third.

Not once have you opposed or challenged an anti-vax argument in this thread even when they were ludicrous and/or blatant lies. Why not? Why have you just been challenging those who are defending vaccinations?
That doesn't seem balanced at all and not the way you go about finding out information.
That makes it obvious what stance you take and what your opinions are.
Now regardless of what you call yourself (probably to take the edge of it) you are still anti-vax, there's no pro "informed" choice about you whatsoever.
If you really wish to become informed, make an appointment with your local immunologist or paediatrician and speak with them rather than pretend to debate about it on a forum.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 03:25 PM
link   

Pardon?

Tucket

Pardon?

Tucket

Pardon?

Tucket

It is estimated that there is over 300000 births each day in the world. There's always a market for death. Yes, I think they are deliberately trying to kill people.
You know my stance on the vaccine element. Its not changing.


evidence won't change a belief,


edit on 3/12/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)


Not true.. I used to believe that vaccinations were beneficial to people.. now I know better.

I understand why you have faith in Pharma, even though their drugs and vaccines etc perpetuate death, illness, and disease. The truth is unbelievable, especially if you work in healthcare.


I couldn't give two hoots about pharma


Really? You don't care about the companies that make the drugs and vaccines? You don't question their business practices and what their motives might be??

Wow.
edit on 3-12-2013 by Tucket because: (no reason given)

some of their practices are abhorrent.


Ok, only some of their practices are abhorrent...
Forgive me as I find humor in that statement.

Sorry about interpreting "not giving a hoot" the wrong way. And if I'm derailing the thread, the mods will deal with it.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 03:27 PM
link   

Antigod
reply to post by OneManArmy
 





To be fair we wouldnt have had the thalidomide scandal if the proper research had been done.
We wouldnt have had children being prescribed SSRI anti depressants like smarties without the research that isnt meant for public consumption making the GP's think everything was fine and dandy with prescribing them to kids.
We wouldnt have a massive over diagnosis of ADHD and kids being over prescribed ritalin for a mental disorder they dont even have if the research not meant for public consumption didnt make GP's think everything was fine with that.
And we also wouldnt have the exorbitant numbers of people killed by misdiagnosis and negligent doctors if the medical system was trustworthy.
We wouldnt have people made ill by drugs.
And we wouldnt have had known faulty "cheaper" MMR vaccinations given to children causing meningitis if the government or pharmaceutical companies actually cared about us.
And Aspartame would never have been passed by the CDC if the "proper" research had been done.
You only have to research the revolving door policy of corrupt politicians and pharmaceutical boardrooms to know that something is seriously wrong with the system.

Im sorry that you have MS, it is truly a terrible disease, I will always remember a woman that visited my school as a child, she had MS and explained how bad it was.


I'm not denying there are issues. But he's basically got to claim 90 percent plus of them are intentionally lying when they publish. And they would have to do it coherently.

Agree about the aspartame. Very dodgy dealings there.

Misdiagnosis can happen for all kinds of reasons. You'd have to assume mass malfeasance, and that's not realistic. People make mistakes, and multiple ailments have the same symptoms. It took ages to diagnose my MS for that reason.

Thalidomide happened a long time ago, the affect of tetragenic drugs was only just being investigated in general. Lumping it in with modern issues isn't appropriate.

Parents push to get an ADHD diagnosis in the UK as you get a lot of extra benefit money if diagnosed, and special school provision.


I agree entirely, especially with regards to the parents(and also teachers) that bear responsibility for the over diagnosis of ADHD, but the "professionals" are supposed to know better. Parents and teachers are not psychiatrists.
But then the whole psychiatry profession is another can of worms entirely.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:00 PM
link   
reply to post by OneManArmy
 





Show me one baby that has died as a result of MY opinion


Hang about and I'll get the news item on the measles deaths in America n school.




www.nytimes.com...




A sixth child whose family opposes measles vaccinations for religious reasons died here today, and five others were inoculated against the disease undercourt order


Well that's one. A few years ago a group of them died.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:19 PM
link   

Antigod
reply to post by OneManArmy
 





Show me one baby that has died as a result of MY opinion


Hang about and I'll get the news item on the measles deaths in America n school.




www.nytimes.com...




A sixth child whose family opposes measles vaccinations for religious reasons died here today, and five others were inoculated against the disease undercourt order


Well that's one. A few years ago a group of them died.


That was before this thread even existed, it couldnt have been MY opinion. I only formed mine in the last couple of months.
My whole argument has been that the measles disease mortality is equal to the vaccine..
1/1500 to 1/5000. Measles has a higher mortality in the third world with poor hygeine, diet, and health care.
I posted much "official" stats showing that the risk of measles is overblown in the first world.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:22 PM
link   

Antigod
I have MS. Vaccines as a cause are a non starter. MS existed before vaccines.


That's flawed logic Antigod, if Cancer existed before cigarettes, would that mean that smoking cigarettes couldn't cause Cancer? This about that!

MS rates are rising, there's something causing the increase. Autoimmune diseases are often caused by vaccines, this is a known fact. We're seeing the same pattern with Diabetes Type 1, it did used to exist in the background, but now rates are soaring due mainly to the Hib vaccine.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:28 PM
link   
reply to post by Rubinstein
 





MS rates are rising, there's something causing the increase


Yes, over enthusiastic hygiene. We know what's causing it. It's not vaccines. I've kept my eye on MS research for decades, vaccines were never a contender.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:37 PM
link   

Antigod
reply to post by Rubinstein
 





MS rates are rising, there's something causing the increase


Yes, over enthusiastic hygiene. We know what's causing it. It's not vaccines. I've kept my eye on MS research for decades, vaccines were never a contender.


That is a fair point, over enthusiastic hygiene is also a suspected cause of allergies. But then so is GMO food.

Multiple vaccines are also suspected to damage an immune system. 55 vaccines before the age of six cannot be "good" for a small childs immunity. Whereas a well spread out vaccination program can only be less harmful...IMO.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:47 PM
link   
reply to post by OneManArmy
 





That was before this thread even existed, it couldnt have been MY opinion. I only formed mine in the last couple of months.
My whole argument has been that the measles disease mortality is equal to the vaccine..
1/1500 to 1/5000. Measles has a higher mortality in the third world with poor hygeine, diet, and health care.
I posted much "official" stats showing that the risk of measles is overblown in the first world


It's a kid killed by non vaccination.

I personally dug out the deaths per outbreak vs number of infections. It's no where near 1/5000. About 1/1000 in the general population, 1/200 to 300 for younger kids . I can post some of the outbreak data if you want me too. I'm open to any new data from verifiable sources.This data was from rich countries with good hygiene and medical care.

In a population that doesn't vaccinate, everyone gets infected in young childhood. It's the most contagious disease in humans around.

If you want top know just how dangerous measles can be, look up what happened to the Jarawa people in the Andaman islands. 90% wiped out.

That's not even going into the other damage measles causes. Blindness, brain damage, organ damage. Vaccines aren't perfect, but they beat measles hands down.

Ironically, when the vaccine does cause damage, it's usually due to the live virus in it. The typical serious reaction is encephalitis, and as I recall you're something like 100 times more like to get it from measles than the vaccine. I'd have to refer back to my old notes though.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:53 PM
link   

Antigod

Yes, over enthusiastic hygiene. We know what's causing it. It's not vaccines. I've kept my eye on MS research for decades, vaccines were never a contender.


Odd that you're so keen to write off vaccines as being one of the causes despite all of the evidence, this is where we see that the safety of vaccines comes down to belief, people like to believe that vaccines are safe, it makes the world feel a nicer place.

Look at the injuries that the recent HPV vaccine has been causing, it's been regularly causing the same symptoms as MS

sanevax.org...

The reality is that Big Pharma control the studies, so they only fund studies which will benefit them, studies are for marketing, not for shooting your own industry in the foot. Pharma make a lot of money from MS, Diabetes Type 1, etc, they're not going to want to decrease their profits and pay out compensation.

In the link below you'll see that the Intitute of Medicine (IOM) point out that the important studies are not being done, just as we saw with Autism/MMR, it's the same story everytime.

www.nvic.org...

IOM Report Reveals Lack Of Adequate Scientific Studies - In Adverse Events Associated with Childhood Vaccines published in 1994 by the Institute of Medicine, National Academy of Sciences, observations about the limitations of hepatitis B vaccine studies included the statements that "it is important to note that individual trials usually involved a few hundred subjects for study...when larger vaccination programs were monitored, observations of adverse events were necessarily less detailed and less accurately reported" and "the studies were not designed to assess serious, rare adverse events; the total number of recipients is too small and the follow-up generally too short to detect rare or delayed serious adverse reactions."

The IOM report also noted that no controlled observational studies or controlled clinical trials have ever been held to evaluate repeated reports that hepatitis B vaccine can cause Guillain-Barre syndrome; arthritis; transverse myelitis, optic neuritis, multiple sclerosis and other central demyelinating diseases of the nervous system (degeneration of the myelin sheath of the brain that helps transmit nerve impulses); or sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). A major conclusion of the Institute of Medicine report was that almost no basic science research has been undertaken to define at the cellular and molecular level the biological mechanism of vaccine-induced injury and death. The report concluded that "The lack of adequate data regarding many of the adverse events under study was of major concern to the committee...the committee encountered many gaps and limitations in knowledge bearing directly or indirectly on the safety of vaccines. These include inadequate understanding of the biologic mechanisms underlying adverse events following natural infection or immunization, insufficient or inconsistent information from case reports and case series...and inadequate size or length of follow-up of many population-based epidemiologic studies…."



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:55 PM
link   
Measles is only dangerous in the malnourished, as long as you have enough Vitamin A in your system you're fine. The MMR is a far greater risk in a well-nourished person.

reply to post by Antigod
 



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:59 PM
link   
reply to post by OneManArmy
 





That is a fair point, over enthusiastic hygiene is also a suspected cause of allergies. But then so is GMO food.

Multiple vaccines are also suspected to damage an immune system. 55 vaccines before the age of six cannot be "good" for a small childs immunity. Whereas a well spread out vaccination program can only be less harmful...IMO


Well no, as the allergy is a defect of the immune system. You might react more to a GM food due to higher levels of potential allergens in them. You'd also have a higher rate of allergies with a peanut and shellfish heavy diet. Depends on what's been done to the food really.

The hygiene hypothesis is being pretty well backed up by the fact that the parasite treatments have such a strong effect on autoimmune diseases, and the pharma companies have pushed the US govt into making it near impossible to get treated with them. No profit in it.

Like I've said, mortality from measles in the very young is about 1/200-300. There's no evidence that the rate of autism has increased since we started the mmr (and I have 18 studies backing this up). You can detect autism at birth in many cases, some are well known to have genetic causes.

I find your need to blame vaccines for every ill known to man baffling. They've prevented millions of deaths.And the causes of autism have been pretty well nailed down to genetics and pre birth environment.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 05:05 PM
link   

Antigod
reply to post by OneManArmy
 





That was before this thread even existed, it couldnt have been MY opinion. I only formed mine in the last couple of months.
My whole argument has been that the measles disease mortality is equal to the vaccine..
1/1500 to 1/5000. Measles has a higher mortality in the third world with poor hygeine, diet, and health care.
I posted much "official" stats showing that the risk of measles is overblown in the first world


It's a kid killed by non vaccination.

I personally dug out the deaths per outbreak vs number of infections. It's no where near 1/5000. About 1/1000 in the general population, 1/200 to 300 for younger kids . I can post some of the outbreak data if you want me too. I'm open to any new data from verifiable sources.This data was from rich countries with good hygiene and medical care.

In a population that doesn't vaccinate, everyone gets infected in young childhood. It's the most contagious disease in humans around.

If you want top know just how dangerous measles can be, look up what happened to the Jarawa people in the Andaman islands. 90% wiped out.

That's not even going into the other damage measles causes. Blindness, brain damage, organ damage. Vaccines aren't perfect, but they beat measles hands down.

Ironically, when the vaccine does cause damage, it's usually due to the live virus in it. The typical serious reaction is encephalitis, and as I recall you're something like 100 times more like to get it from measles than the vaccine. I'd have to refer back to my old notes though.

Notice the mortality rate of measles was falling dramatically long before the vaccinations even began.
Source

I posted the source of the 1/1500 - 1/5000 mortality rate in the UK earlier in the thread, I will try to find it later, Im going to bed right now.

I havent attributed anything to vaccines that hasnt been "officially" admitted.
If it hasnt been admitted/proven then I say it is "suspected" or an opinion, based on my knowledge of past problems.
My opinions could well be wrong, they are opinions and not facts. Whereas the "officially" admitted problems are facts.
Also I have never claimed that MMR caused autism, I said Wakefield "may" have been correct.
I have seen nothing that specifically proves a link between MMR and autism, just "circumstatial" evidence and what happened with my own child(Autistic Spectrum Disorder). But I have categorically stated I dont know for sure if the vaccine caused it. Hence my paticipation in this thread to try and get some answers.
edit on 201312America/Chicago12pm12pmTue, 03 Dec 2013 17:14:47 -06001213 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 05:13 PM
link   

Antigod

I find your need to blame vaccines for every ill known to man baffling. They've prevented millions of deaths.And the causes of autism have been pretty well nailed down to genetics and pre birth environment.



It is the science that blames vaccines, we didn't just decide to randomly hate vaccines, the science taught us of the dangers. See the PLOS One Study below which concludes that the antigens in vaccines are causing autoimmune diseases. It should be common sense that if we're constantly creating unnatural immune responses by overloading the body with antigens, sooner or later it will also cause an unwanted immune response, such as a Peanut Allergy, Diabetes Type 1, MS etc. If my car has been running smoothly for 12 months, then one day I decide to open up the hood and start fixing things that aren't broken, then I find afterwards that the car won't start, it's 99.9% certain I've just caused that problem. The antigens in vaccines are opening up the hood of the immune system, so if an autoimmune disorder starts up after vaccination, we know what's most likely caused the problem. Only the pharmaceuticals would want us to blame something else, but it's not logical, only to them and their corrupt agenda is that logical.

As for the children who regress into Autism, it's the ones who take Tylenol (aka Paracetamol) at around the time of vaccination (mainly with MMR). The ones who took nothing or Ibuprofen do not regress into Autism.

Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity

Conclusions/Significance

"Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality."

gaia-health.com...
edit on 3-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)



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