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Pardon?
As for Brian Deer, Wakefield was already being investigated by the BMJ way before his expose. Irrespective of who conducted the investigation, the evidence is there for all to see anyway so you're just shooting the messenger.
edit on 27/11/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)
RobinB022
Mountainmeg
I have a 14 year old son with autism. I do not blame the vaccinations because his symptoms were noticeable before the MMR shot. After he was diagnosed, it was pretty easy to follow both lines of the family and find cases of possible asperger's and definite autistic traits. Son was the first in the family with full blown autism.
My nephew was born after my son's diagnosis. His parents had him vaccinated, but argued for an extended schedule so he wouldn't get multiple shots at one time - something I think is pretty smart. He was diagnosed with asperger's two years ago - but he functions much better than my son.
My big concern is the total vaccination load currently given to babies. It's not unusual to give a one year old four jabs in one appointment. And I have been unable to find ANY safety studies on the entire vaccine load. Yes, one shot may have a good safety study. What happens when you add in 3 other shots given at the same time?
But what really bothers me is the lack of concern regarding autism. The latest CDC figures put the autism rate at 1 in 88 children. 1 in 54 when you look at boys. So, something is taking out 1.85% of our male children - you would think that would be a national emergency.
CDC Autism Rates 2013
I know we here at ATS are not encouraged to reply to comments simply to say "good post", or something similar, but every once in a while a comment comes along that makes it difficult for me not to do so.. such as yours. You make very good (& reasonable) points without blaming or criticizing anyone/anything, and to me sounds like an educated opinion piece. I felt inspired by reading it actually. So thank you!!
OneManArmy
Pardon?
As for Brian Deer, Wakefield was already being investigated by the BMJ way before his expose. Irrespective of who conducted the investigation, the evidence is there for all to see anyway so you're just shooting the messenger.
edit on 27/11/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)
No, just see him deal with the parents in the video outside the courthouse.
He shoots himself. He commits credibility "suicide". The guy is a snake, and a nasty one too. He treats the parents(and by extension their disabled children) with utter contempt.
And isnt "shooting the messenger" exactly what has happened and continues to happen to Wakefield.
thats ironic logic dont you think?
OneManArmy
Forget Wakefield, forget autism.
MMR caused Meningitis in UK. American Journal Of Epidemiology The vaccine was removed from sale.
Japan banned the MMR in 1993. Why Japan Banned the MMR
Early Fears about MMR in secret papers - 2007
Swine Flu Vaccine can Trigger Narcolepsy
CDC "Disappears" page linking Polio vaccine to cancer causing SV40 virus
Source - CBS News
In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.
That roughly equates to 65 per year. And thats just the ones that went to court and won.
I understand that it a matter of the greater good, but if the dangers of vaccination havent been properly studied then there is a problem.
Rubinstein
You're right RobinB022,
The full schedule is never tested, only individual vaccines, only in healthy people, they are never tested with Tylenol (Paracetamol) yet they recommend to take it post-vaccination, also they never test for more than a few days; to test for vaccine-induced autoimmune diseases you generally have to wait at least 2 months. They never compare vaccinated with unvaccinated people. Big Pharma keep refusing to do the studies everytime the people demand them. That is why vaccines are a game of Russian Roulette.
angryhulk
On another note my 8 month old daughter has had her vaccines and she is totally fine, as are my friends children.
Jukiodone
reply to post by Pardon?
No not at all....
Firstly check your stats about deaths arising from visiting the toilet V visiting the medicine profession.
I completely agree that Wakefield is a fraud...but I also wanted to highlight that IF the industry discovered that part of an efficacious treatment caused Autism in a small group of patients; dont expect them to volunteer that information if it's currently making them money.
I'd love to break down some of the things I saw but I wont for privacy of all parties but it was quite normal to see:
Scientists trying to do good and progress science (involved in novel research) being hijacked by Big Pharma because it will affect their bottom line if a new treatment broke their timeline of development.
Large amounts of money being spent /borderline bribes used to influence key decision and policy makers in Government/Health procurement
The use of attractive "femme fatale" women in deal-making/partnering/medical sales ( nothing new there but very very prevalent).
Obviously all the above goes on "normal" commerce but it stuck in my mind as preventing things from happening in the name of profit has a very real human consequences when contextualized in the Healthcare industry.edit on 28-11-2013 by Jukiodone because: (no reason given)
Xaphan
Is this why I see so many people in restaurants taking photos of their food and posting them on Facebook/Twitter? I don't know if it's just me, but autism levels these days seem to be reaching a critical mass.edit on 28-11-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)
The Cusp
angryhulk
On another note my 8 month old daughter has had her vaccines and she is totally fine, as are my friends children.
My friends and I go drinking and driving all the time, and we've never had an accident. Therefore it must be totally safe. Right?
Rubinstein
Well said Cusp, yes many pro-vaccine people don't seem to understand statistics and probability
Rubinstein
Xaphan
Is this why I see so many people in restaurants taking photos of their food and posting them on Facebook/Twitter? I don't know if it's just me, but autism levels these days seem to be reaching a critical mass.edit on 28-11-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)
Those with MMR-Autism would find it difficult to even take a photo, vaccine-Autism is a lot a lot more serious, but Big Pharma smartly gave it the same name as something which already existed, to hide their dirty work.edit on 28-11-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)
Pardon?
Should vaccines be tested with every known combination of drugs?
Why should there be a test for vaccine induced autoimmune diseases when there aren't any?
image.thelancet.com...
Here's a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study for you.
image.thelancet.com...
In conclusion you are extremely uniformed about even the very basics of vaccines and medicine.
It seems that you glean all of your information from maybe one or two anti-vax sites and you have quite an hysterical view on "big pharma".
You lack the ability even for the slightest bit of critical thinking (and very basic counting...) and cannot debate past what you copy & paste.
I'm afraid your comments cannot be taken seriously at all.
Pardon?
Rubinstein
Xaphan
Is this why I see so many people in restaurants taking photos of their food and posting them on Facebook/Twitter? I don't know if it's just me, but autism levels these days seem to be reaching a critical mass.edit on 28-11-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)
Those with MMR-Autism would find it difficult to even take a photo, vaccine-Autism is a lot a lot more serious, but Big Pharma smartly gave it the same name as something which already existed, to hide their dirty work.edit on 28-11-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)
You're just making things up as you go along now aren't you?
You're doing yourself no favours whatsoever.
Rubinstein
Pardon,
You are clearly hoping that people don't have enough time to click on your links, you are here to deceive. Why else would you claim that a Vaccinated Vs Unvaccinated study is titled "Vaccination and autoimmune disease: what is the evidence?" This is ATS, we expect better standards. In fact everyone who follows the vaccine debate knows that Big Pharma have once again refused to do this study, yet you try to deceive people with a false link. You're trying to cover this up, at this stage most people will be left assuming you have an agenda.
As for your link which tries to deny the obvious and clear link between vaccines and autoimmune disease, you didn't check for conflicts of interest, or maybe you hoped we wouldn't spot it.
Conflict of interest statement M Goldman has served as a consultant for Aventis-Pasteur, BruCells, Glaxo SmithKline, and OM-Pharma. P-H Lambert has served as a consultant for Aventis-Pasteur, Chiron, Glaxo SmithKline, and OM-Pharma. D Wraith is a director of Apitope Technology (Bristol), and has served as consultant for Glaxo SmithKline, Peptide Therapeutics, and Teva Pharmaceutical Industries.
By posting up false links and corporate studies you're doing a lot more harm than good to your pro-vaccine stance, I would recommend you either start showing more honesty or stop posting altogether; each time you post you dig yourself a deeper into a hole.
Pardon?
Should vaccines be tested with every known combination of drugs?
Why should there be a test for vaccine induced autoimmune diseases when there aren't any?
image.thelancet.com...
Here's a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study for you.
image.thelancet.com...
In conclusion you are extremely uniformed about even the very basics of vaccines and medicine.
It seems that you glean all of your information from maybe one or two anti-vax sites and you have quite an hysterical view on "big pharma".
You lack the ability even for the slightest bit of critical thinking (and very basic counting...) and cannot debate past what you copy & paste.
I'm afraid your comments cannot be taken seriously at all.
Pardon?
(Since the MMR was stopped in Japan, they've had both mumps and rubella epidemics yearly, not great for an adult population at all. Measles is endemic there too, there were 88 deaths from it in 2000 and who knows how many were permanently disabled but I guess that's a risk you're happy to take eh? www.bmj.com... ).
Pardon?
Now it's true that there WAS a risk of meningitis with that specific MMR variant but guess what there's STILL a risk of meningitis from Mumps...
Mumps CAN and DOES Cause Meningitis, Pancreatitis and lead to Deafness
Rubinstein
We've just established which of us is making stuff up, and it's not me.
Rubinstein
Pardon,
You've just been caught again deceiving with false links to studies, you are a compulsive liar, this now discredits everything you've said. You are here to attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes. The BMJ link which you say is about people dying of Measles in Japan is actually called "Risk of narcolepsy in children and young people receiving AS03 adjuvanted pandemic A/H1N1 2009 influenza vaccine: retrospective analysis" and does not contain the information you suggest. www.bmj.com...
Pardon?
(Since the MMR was stopped in Japan, they've had both mumps and rubella epidemics yearly, not great for an adult population at all. Measles is endemic there too, there were 88 deaths from it in 2000 and who knows how many were permanently disabled but I guess that's a risk you're happy to take eh? www.bmj.com... ).
Pardon?
Now it's true that there WAS a risk of meningitis with that specific MMR variant but guess what there's STILL a risk of meningitis from Mumps...
Mumps CAN and DOES Cause Meningitis, Pancreatitis and lead to Deafness
MMR can cause Meningitis, that's admitted. As for Mumps we already know that the Mumps part of the MMR vaccine was faked through the studies, they added animal antibodies to make it look like it works.
Mumps is incredibly mild, we should not be vaccinating against it.
Rubinstein
Pardon,
You've just been caught again deceiving with false links to studies, you are a compulsive liar, this now discredits everything you've said. You are here to attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes. The BMJ link which you say is about people dying of Measles in Japan is actually called "Risk of narcolepsy in children and young people receiving AS03 adjuvanted pandemic A/H1N1 2009 influenza vaccine: retrospective analysis" and does not contain the information you suggest. www.bmj.com...
Pardon?
(Since the MMR was stopped in Japan, they've had both mumps and rubella epidemics yearly, not great for an adult population at all. Measles is endemic there too, there were 88 deaths from it in 2000 and who knows how many were permanently disabled but I guess that's a risk you're happy to take eh? www.bmj.com... ).
Pardon?
Now it's true that there WAS a risk of meningitis with that specific MMR variant but guess what there's STILL a risk of meningitis from Mumps...
Mumps CAN and DOES Cause Meningitis, Pancreatitis and lead to Deafness
MMR can cause Meningitis, that's admitted. As for Mumps we already know that the Mumps part of the MMR vaccine was faked through the studies, they added animal antibodies to make it look like it works.
Mumps is incredibly mild, we should not be vaccinating against it.