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Courts Quietly Confirm MMR Vaccine Causes Autism

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posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 04:24 PM
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Pardon?

As for Brian Deer, Wakefield was already being investigated by the BMJ way before his expose. Irrespective of who conducted the investigation, the evidence is there for all to see anyway so you're just shooting the messenger.


edit on 27/11/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)


No, just see him deal with the parents in the video outside the courthouse.
He shoots himself. He commits credibility "suicide". The guy is a snake, and a nasty one too. He treats the parents(and by extension their disabled children) with utter contempt.

And isnt "shooting the messenger" exactly what has happened and continues to happen to Wakefield.

thats ironic logic dont you think?




posted on Nov, 27 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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You're right RobinB022,

The full schedule is never tested, only individual vaccines, only in healthy people, they are never tested with Tylenol (Paracetamol) yet they recommend to take it post-vaccination, also they never test for more than a few days; to test for vaccine-induced autoimmune diseases you generally have to wait at least 2 months. They never compare vaccinated with unvaccinated people. Big Pharma keep refusing to do the studies everytime the people demand them. That is why vaccines are a game of Russian Roulette.




RobinB022

Mountainmeg
I have a 14 year old son with autism. I do not blame the vaccinations because his symptoms were noticeable before the MMR shot. After he was diagnosed, it was pretty easy to follow both lines of the family and find cases of possible asperger's and definite autistic traits. Son was the first in the family with full blown autism.

My nephew was born after my son's diagnosis. His parents had him vaccinated, but argued for an extended schedule so he wouldn't get multiple shots at one time - something I think is pretty smart. He was diagnosed with asperger's two years ago - but he functions much better than my son.

My big concern is the total vaccination load currently given to babies. It's not unusual to give a one year old four jabs in one appointment. And I have been unable to find ANY safety studies on the entire vaccine load. Yes, one shot may have a good safety study. What happens when you add in 3 other shots given at the same time?

But what really bothers me is the lack of concern regarding autism. The latest CDC figures put the autism rate at 1 in 88 children. 1 in 54 when you look at boys. So, something is taking out 1.85% of our male children - you would think that would be a national emergency.

CDC Autism Rates 2013


I know we here at ATS are not encouraged to reply to comments simply to say "good post", or something similar, but every once in a while a comment comes along that makes it difficult for me not to do so.. such as yours. You make very good (& reasonable) points without blaming or criticizing anyone/anything, and to me sounds like an educated opinion piece. I felt inspired by reading it actually. So thank you!!

edit on 27-11-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 02:12 AM
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OneManArmy

Pardon?

As for Brian Deer, Wakefield was already being investigated by the BMJ way before his expose. Irrespective of who conducted the investigation, the evidence is there for all to see anyway so you're just shooting the messenger.


edit on 27/11/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)


No, just see him deal with the parents in the video outside the courthouse.
He shoots himself. He commits credibility "suicide". The guy is a snake, and a nasty one too. He treats the parents(and by extension their disabled children) with utter contempt.

And isnt "shooting the messenger" exactly what has happened and continues to happen to Wakefield.

thats ironic logic dont you think?


As I said, irrespective of how credible Deer is, the evidence he brought to the fore is very robust indeed.
Anyone could've found it had they looked.

So comparing him with Wakefield, a "man" who deliberately faked a study, announced a different conclusion from that study and who coerced disabled children into having blood tests at a child's birthday party in order to capitalise on payments from lawyers and to profit from his vaccine patent is absolutely ridiculous isn't it?



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 02:24 AM
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Is this why I see so many people in restaurants taking photos of their food and posting them on Facebook/Twitter? I don't know if it's just me, but autism levels these days seem to be reaching a critical mass.
edit on 28-11-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 03:12 AM
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OneManArmy
Forget Wakefield, forget autism.

MMR caused Meningitis in UK. American Journal Of Epidemiology The vaccine was removed from sale.

Japan banned the MMR in 1993. Why Japan Banned the MMR

Early Fears about MMR in secret papers - 2007

Swine Flu Vaccine can Trigger Narcolepsy

CDC "Disappears" page linking Polio vaccine to cancer causing SV40 virus


In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.
Source - CBS News
That roughly equates to 65 per year. And thats just the ones that went to court and won.

I understand that it a matter of the greater good, but if the dangers of vaccination havent been properly studied then there is a problem.


Ah, a change of tactics.
You're definitely not anti-vax though are you?

You're last line says that vax haven't been studied properly but several of your links show studies into potential vaccination side-effects.
In fact two of them (which essentially were the same study subject, resulted in the removal or change of the vaccines), namely the Mumps Urabe strain which was removed from the UK in 1992 and replaced with the Jeryl Lynn strain which hasn't produced the same adverse events.
Here's the final paragraph from the link you provided titled "MMR caused meningitis in UK"
"In conclusion, our active surveillance study using record linkage and the self-controlled case-series analysis method has shown no evidence to suggest that the new MMR vaccine used in the United Kingdom since mid-1998 and derived from the Jeryl Lynn-containing MMR vaccine causes aseptic meningitis attributable to its mumps component."
Now it's true that there WAS a risk of meningitis with that specific MMR variant but guess what there's STILL a risk of meningitis from Mumps...
Mumps CAN and DOES Cause Meningitis, Pancreatitis and lead to Deafness

In Japan's case all variants of the MMR vaccine were made "in-house" so to rule out any potential contaminant causing problems with the Mumps component, they removed the Mumps component completely and now only give the MR.
(Since the MMR was stopped in Japan, they've had both mumps and rubella epidemics yearly, not great for an adult population at all. Measles is endemic there too, there were 88 deaths from it in 2000 and who knows how many were permanently disabled but I guess that's a risk you're happy to take eh? www.bmj.com... ).

Actions were taken because the vaccines were studied.


There is a link with Pandemrix and narcolepsy and as soon as this was confirmed it was stopped being given to under 20 years-olds.
The risk of it happening is around 1 in 57,000 or ten times less likely than being in a car accident. They're not 100% sure why it happens but the best theory is that there is a genetic predisposition to it (which would cement the fact it's only happened in adolescents). Given the rarity of these events, the chance of finding this out during even a large clinical study would have been almost impossible.
www.bmj.com...
That's why there are post-release studies which constantly monitor drugs and vaccines.

Here's a CDC page on the SV40 virus so they haven't removed it have they (and you just believed the link blindly, obviously)?
wwwnc.cdc.gov...

As for the compensation claims, that has more to do with the lawyers rather than the actual medical condition as has been discussed in this thread.

One thing though, who compensates kids and their families if they're severely affected by a vaccine preventable disease?
Should they be able to sue those who have not vaccinated due to ignorance?
shotbyshot.org...






edit on 28/11/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 03:23 AM
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Rubinstein
You're right RobinB022,

The full schedule is never tested, only individual vaccines, only in healthy people, they are never tested with Tylenol (Paracetamol) yet they recommend to take it post-vaccination, also they never test for more than a few days; to test for vaccine-induced autoimmune diseases you generally have to wait at least 2 months. They never compare vaccinated with unvaccinated people. Big Pharma keep refusing to do the studies everytime the people demand them. That is why vaccines are a game of Russian Roulette.


How can you test the full schedule at once?
Vaccines are never given to people who are sick.
Should vaccines be tested with every known combination of drugs?
Why should there be a test for vaccine induced autoimmune diseases when there aren't any?
image.thelancet.com...

Here's a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study for you.
image.thelancet.com...


In conclusion you are extremely uniformed about even the very basics of vaccines and medicine.
It seems that you glean all of your information from maybe one or two anti-vax sites and you have quite an hysterical view on "big pharma".
You lack the ability even for the slightest bit of critical thinking (and very basic counting...) and cannot debate past what you copy & paste.

I'm afraid your comments cannot be taken seriously at all.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by Pardon?
 


No not at all....

Firstly check your stats about deaths arising from visiting the toilet V visiting the medicine profession.

I completely agree that Wakefield is a fraud...but I also wanted to highlight that IF the industry discovered that part of an efficacious treatment caused Autism in a small group of patients; dont expect them to volunteer that information if it's currently making them money.

I'd love to break down some of the things I saw but I wont for privacy of all parties but it was quite normal to see:

Scientists trying to do good and progress science (involved in novel research) being hijacked by Big Pharma because it will affect their bottom line if a new treatment broke their timeline of development.

Large amounts of money being spent /borderline bribes used to influence key decision and policy makers in Government/Health procurement

The use of attractive "femme fatale" women in deal-making/partnering/medical sales ( nothing new there but very very prevalent).

Obviously all the above goes on "normal" commerce but it stuck in my mind as preventing things from happening in the name of profit has a very real human consequences when contextualized in the Healthcare industry.
edit on 28-11-2013 by Jukiodone because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 03:40 AM
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angryhulk
On another note my 8 month old daughter has had her vaccines and she is totally fine, as are my friends children.


My friends and I go drinking and driving all the time, and we've never had an accident. Therefore it must be totally safe. Right?



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 04:40 AM
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Jukiodone
reply to post by Pardon?
 


No not at all....

Firstly check your stats about deaths arising from visiting the toilet V visiting the medicine profession.

I completely agree that Wakefield is a fraud...but I also wanted to highlight that IF the industry discovered that part of an efficacious treatment caused Autism in a small group of patients; dont expect them to volunteer that information if it's currently making them money.

I'd love to break down some of the things I saw but I wont for privacy of all parties but it was quite normal to see:

Scientists trying to do good and progress science (involved in novel research) being hijacked by Big Pharma because it will affect their bottom line if a new treatment broke their timeline of development.

Large amounts of money being spent /borderline bribes used to influence key decision and policy makers in Government/Health procurement

The use of attractive "femme fatale" women in deal-making/partnering/medical sales ( nothing new there but very very prevalent).

Obviously all the above goes on "normal" commerce but it stuck in my mind as preventing things from happening in the name of profit has a very real human consequences when contextualized in the Healthcare industry.
edit on 28-11-2013 by Jukiodone because: (no reason given)


Do people go to see a medic when they are well or when they have something wrong with them?
Ergo the chance is there will be an illness or injury involved somewhere down the line.
I chose that "stat" about the toilet to highlight the spuriousness of yours.

Whilst there's certainly no disagreement from me regarding the corruption in pharma (but let's not forget a HUGE part of the anti-vax movement is corruption personified based solely upon deception, lies and litigation) I've shown above incidences when vaccines have been altered or removed post release as they were problematic.
Surely they would've kept them quiet?
Surely?



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 04:41 AM
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Xaphan
Is this why I see so many people in restaurants taking photos of their food and posting them on Facebook/Twitter? I don't know if it's just me, but autism levels these days seem to be reaching a critical mass.
edit on 28-11-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)


Those with MMR-Autism would find it difficult to even take a photo, vaccine-Autism is a lot a lot more serious, but Big Pharma smartly gave it the same name as something which already existed, to hide their dirty work.
edit on 28-11-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 04:44 AM
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Well said Cusp, yes many pro-vaccine people don't seem to understand statistics and probability


The Cusp

angryhulk
On another note my 8 month old daughter has had her vaccines and she is totally fine, as are my friends children.


My friends and I go drinking and driving all the time, and we've never had an accident. Therefore it must be totally safe. Right?



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 04:51 AM
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Rubinstein
Well said Cusp, yes many pro-vaccine people don't seem to understand statistics and probability


Given that you can't even add 1 to 2 and get the correct answer I would suggest you're the last person to comment on statistics and probabilities.

Using stats though you are more likely to be injured in a car accident than injured by vaccines.
That chance is lowered almost exponentially if the driver is drunk.
edit on 28/11/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 04:54 AM
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Rubinstein

Xaphan
Is this why I see so many people in restaurants taking photos of their food and posting them on Facebook/Twitter? I don't know if it's just me, but autism levels these days seem to be reaching a critical mass.
edit on 28-11-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)


Those with MMR-Autism would find it difficult to even take a photo, vaccine-Autism is a lot a lot more serious, but Big Pharma smartly gave it the same name as something which already existed, to hide their dirty work.
edit on 28-11-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)


You're just making things up as you go along now aren't you?
You're doing yourself no favours whatsoever.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 04:59 AM
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Pardon,

You are clearly hoping that people don't have enough time to click on your links, you are here to deceive. Why else would you claim that a Vaccinated Vs Unvaccinated study is titled "Vaccination and autoimmune disease: what is the evidence?" This is ATS, we expect better standards. In fact everyone who follows the vaccine debate knows that Big Pharma have once again refused to do this study, yet you try to deceive people with a false link. You're trying to cover this up, at this stage most people will be left assuming you have an agenda.

As for your link which tries to deny the obvious and clear link between vaccines and autoimmune disease, you didn't check for conflicts of interest, or maybe you hoped we wouldn't spot it.

Conflict of interest statement M Goldman has served as a consultant for Aventis-Pasteur, BruCells, Glaxo SmithKline, and OM-Pharma. P-H Lambert has served as a consultant for Aventis-Pasteur, Chiron, Glaxo SmithKline, and OM-Pharma. D Wraith is a director of Apitope Technology (Bristol), and has served as consultant for Glaxo SmithKline, Peptide Therapeutics, and Teva Pharmaceutical Industries.

By posting up false links and corporate studies you're doing a lot more harm than good to your pro-vaccine stance, I would recommend you either start showing more honesty or stop posting altogether; each time you post you dig yourself a deeper into a hole.


Pardon?
Should vaccines be tested with every known combination of drugs?
Why should there be a test for vaccine induced autoimmune diseases when there aren't any?
image.thelancet.com...

Here's a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study for you.
image.thelancet.com...


In conclusion you are extremely uniformed about even the very basics of vaccines and medicine.
It seems that you glean all of your information from maybe one or two anti-vax sites and you have quite an hysterical view on "big pharma".
You lack the ability even for the slightest bit of critical thinking (and very basic counting...) and cannot debate past what you copy & paste.

I'm afraid your comments cannot be taken seriously at all.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 05:00 AM
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We've just established which of us is making stuff up, and it's not me.


Pardon?

Rubinstein

Xaphan
Is this why I see so many people in restaurants taking photos of their food and posting them on Facebook/Twitter? I don't know if it's just me, but autism levels these days seem to be reaching a critical mass.
edit on 28-11-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)


Those with MMR-Autism would find it difficult to even take a photo, vaccine-Autism is a lot a lot more serious, but Big Pharma smartly gave it the same name as something which already existed, to hide their dirty work.
edit on 28-11-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)


You're just making things up as you go along now aren't you?
You're doing yourself no favours whatsoever.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 05:08 AM
link   

Rubinstein
Pardon,

You are clearly hoping that people don't have enough time to click on your links, you are here to deceive. Why else would you claim that a Vaccinated Vs Unvaccinated study is titled "Vaccination and autoimmune disease: what is the evidence?" This is ATS, we expect better standards. In fact everyone who follows the vaccine debate knows that Big Pharma have once again refused to do this study, yet you try to deceive people with a false link. You're trying to cover this up, at this stage most people will be left assuming you have an agenda.

As for your link which tries to deny the obvious and clear link between vaccines and autoimmune disease, you didn't check for conflicts of interest, or maybe you hoped we wouldn't spot it.

Conflict of interest statement M Goldman has served as a consultant for Aventis-Pasteur, BruCells, Glaxo SmithKline, and OM-Pharma. P-H Lambert has served as a consultant for Aventis-Pasteur, Chiron, Glaxo SmithKline, and OM-Pharma. D Wraith is a director of Apitope Technology (Bristol), and has served as consultant for Glaxo SmithKline, Peptide Therapeutics, and Teva Pharmaceutical Industries.

By posting up false links and corporate studies you're doing a lot more harm than good to your pro-vaccine stance, I would recommend you either start showing more honesty or stop posting altogether; each time you post you dig yourself a deeper into a hole.


Pardon?
Should vaccines be tested with every known combination of drugs?
Why should there be a test for vaccine induced autoimmune diseases when there aren't any?
image.thelancet.com...

Here's a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study for you.
image.thelancet.com...


In conclusion you are extremely uniformed about even the very basics of vaccines and medicine.
It seems that you glean all of your information from maybe one or two anti-vax sites and you have quite an hysterical view on "big pharma".
You lack the ability even for the slightest bit of critical thinking (and very basic counting...) and cannot debate past what you copy & paste.

I'm afraid your comments cannot be taken seriously at all.


Wrong again Wrongenstein.
Wrong on a fractal level.

I'm actually hoping that people read ALL of the links and the references contained within those links rather than just basing an assumption on a conflicts of interest statement which is clearly reported at the end.

Unlike a certain Wakefield who conveniently forgot to write about his conflicts of interest didn't he?


Is that the best argument you have?
Resorting to type eh?



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 05:09 AM
link   
Pardon,

You've just been caught again deceiving with false links to studies, you are a compulsive liar, this now discredits everything you've said. You are here to attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes. The BMJ link which you say is about people dying of Measles in Japan is actually called "Risk of narcolepsy in children and young people receiving AS03 adjuvanted pandemic A/H1N1 2009 influenza vaccine: retrospective analysis" and does not contain the information you suggest. www.bmj.com...


Pardon?
(Since the MMR was stopped in Japan, they've had both mumps and rubella epidemics yearly, not great for an adult population at all. Measles is endemic there too, there were 88 deaths from it in 2000 and who knows how many were permanently disabled but I guess that's a risk you're happy to take eh? www.bmj.com... ).




Pardon?
Now it's true that there WAS a risk of meningitis with that specific MMR variant but guess what there's STILL a risk of meningitis from Mumps...
Mumps CAN and DOES Cause Meningitis, Pancreatitis and lead to Deafness


MMR can cause Meningitis, that's admitted. As for Mumps we already know that the Mumps part of the MMR vaccine was faked through the studies, they added animal antibodies to make it look like it works.

Mumps is incredibly mild, we should not be vaccinating against it.




posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 05:11 AM
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Rubinstein
We've just established which of us is making stuff up, and it's not me.


Prove what you said about "MMR-autism...vaccine-autism[sic]...and pharma changing the name" (????) then.
Bear in mind that evidence is not proven by conjecture.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 05:15 AM
link   

Rubinstein
Pardon,

You've just been caught again deceiving with false links to studies, you are a compulsive liar, this now discredits everything you've said. You are here to attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes. The BMJ link which you say is about people dying of Measles in Japan is actually called "Risk of narcolepsy in children and young people receiving AS03 adjuvanted pandemic A/H1N1 2009 influenza vaccine: retrospective analysis" and does not contain the information you suggest. www.bmj.com...


Pardon?
(Since the MMR was stopped in Japan, they've had both mumps and rubella epidemics yearly, not great for an adult population at all. Measles is endemic there too, there were 88 deaths from it in 2000 and who knows how many were permanently disabled but I guess that's a risk you're happy to take eh? www.bmj.com... ).




Pardon?
Now it's true that there WAS a risk of meningitis with that specific MMR variant but guess what there's STILL a risk of meningitis from Mumps...
Mumps CAN and DOES Cause Meningitis, Pancreatitis and lead to Deafness


MMR can cause Meningitis, that's admitted. As for Mumps we already know that the Mumps part of the MMR vaccine was faked through the studies, they added animal antibodies to make it look like it works.

Mumps is incredibly mild, we should not be vaccinating against it.



I make a mistake therefore I'm being a compulsive liar and I'm deceptive.
Wow, you must be off the scale then!

Apologies for posting the wrong link, here's the one I wanted to post.
www.thelancet.com...



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 05:22 AM
link   

Rubinstein
Pardon,

You've just been caught again deceiving with false links to studies, you are a compulsive liar, this now discredits everything you've said. You are here to attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes. The BMJ link which you say is about people dying of Measles in Japan is actually called "Risk of narcolepsy in children and young people receiving AS03 adjuvanted pandemic A/H1N1 2009 influenza vaccine: retrospective analysis" and does not contain the information you suggest. www.bmj.com...


Pardon?
(Since the MMR was stopped in Japan, they've had both mumps and rubella epidemics yearly, not great for an adult population at all. Measles is endemic there too, there were 88 deaths from it in 2000 and who knows how many were permanently disabled but I guess that's a risk you're happy to take eh? www.bmj.com... ).




Pardon?
Now it's true that there WAS a risk of meningitis with that specific MMR variant but guess what there's STILL a risk of meningitis from Mumps...
Mumps CAN and DOES Cause Meningitis, Pancreatitis and lead to Deafness


MMR can cause Meningitis, that's admitted. As for Mumps we already know that the Mumps part of the MMR vaccine was faked through the studies, they added animal antibodies to make it look like it works.

Mumps is incredibly mild, we should not be vaccinating against it.



1 in 20 people who contract mumps will develop acute pancreatitis which can kill.
1 in 1000 people who contract mumps will develop viral meningitis which can kill.
1 in 20000 people who contract mumps will become permanently deaf.
Not to mention the chance of developing gonad problems.

1 in 3000 people who have the MMR will have a febrile event.
The chance of developing aseptic meningitis with the MMR vaccine that has been used since the 1990's is minimal.


I know some of the numbers above are bigger than you're comfortable with but they show why mumps should be immunised against.



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