Which JFK Assassination Conspiracy Theory Do You Prefer?

I've spent a good bit of time going over the particulars of what is expected of ATS members when they source their material. This is in NO MEANS a criticism. Considering my own experience with trying be fair and at the same time insure I gave no wrong impressions, I appreciate the need to be clear as to source of what you post.

In order to post certain things I've learned, I'd need to come pretty close to writing a small book and it is as silly as it is beyond what I am able to commit to.

There are a handful of points I may try to cover, later. As much as I'd like to make the assertion now, I'll wait until I can make a post and know it stands on its own.

To stay on topic...

Here is just one more bit of trivia that the "coincidence believers" surely consider beneath their notice, but the patriarch of the Kennedy family, Joseph P. Kennedy Sr., had one of those love/hate friendships with printing magnate Henry Luce. In fact, it was the kind of male friendship that would overlook Kennedy taking Clare to bed when the Luces visited United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. in England.

Kennedy watched the JFK acceptance speech from the Waldorf-Astoria with Henry & Clare.

Is it just a "coincidence" that the same man who would later buy and then sit on the Zapruder film express total contempt for JFK after the Bay of Pigs? Clare went so far as to financially sponsor particular clusters of anti-Castro Cubans that she referred to as "her boys".

Assassination of JFK is a glaring example of how Occam's Razor doesn't always apply...

Everything in this post is available if you read:
Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy...
by David Talbot
(as far as I can tell) Published by Amazon

If kennedy survived nearly half an hour after what you see in the assasination video, rather than instantly dying, leads me to believe that this assassination was all a hoax. can't explain it just like, I cant explain 9/11

a reply to: Nochzwei

Nah, they tried their best at Parkland, they had to it was the President for crying out loud. He was dead, they knew it, but they couldn't stop trying anyway. He was dead way before he was declared dead.

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: Nochzwei

Nah, they tried their best at Parkland, they had to it was the President for crying out loud. He was dead, they knew it, but they couldn't stop trying anyway. He was dead way before he was declared dead.

Keep an eye out for a new project that will be going public around the anniversary next month. I made a small donation to help them finance the final stages of production and have received my email to let me know that it has been completed. The exact name of the film hasn't been announced yet, but its focus is completely on the Parkland doctors. It is an independent film and I hope they finally get to have their say.

Needless to say, I'm looking forward to it. The perk that came with donations at my level is an advance copy in digital format.

a reply to: CornShucker

Oh you're kidding me!!! I am beside myself with that news! Let me know when you find out the name of the film, I just can't miss that. For a long time I have said that the Parkland doctors testimony is of paramount importance in this case. You just can't put enough emphasis on it imho.

I wish I had known about it to donate, I'd have loved to have had the advance copy too you lucky dog you!

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: CornShucker

Oh you're kidding me!!! I am beside myself with that news! Let me know when you find out the name of the film, I just can't miss that. For a long time I have said that the Parkland doctors testimony is of paramount importance in this case. You just can't put enough emphasis on it imho.

I wish I had known about it to donate, I'd have loved to have had the advance copy too you lucky dog you!

Will do!

It's almost too much to hope for, but it would be fantastic if the doctor that probed the entry wound on JFK's left temple took part. It was very disheartening to read the section of Horne's book that describes how little effort was taken by the ARRB in meeting with the Parkland doctors. Whatever had happened behind the scenes left Horne pretty well hamstrung as far as talking to the Dallas doctors. If only there'd been the kind of curiosity and support that had existed earlier...

I'm anxiously waiting for my email with download instructions. The people doing the film mentioned the possibility of a test showing in selected theaters. I'd love to see it ignite the kind of interest that Stone's movie did, but I'm not going to get my hopes up too high. I noticed that one of the reviews of "Brothers" on Amazon included the remark that maybe America has finally been "Kennedy'd out"... Somebody replied, "Speak for yourself!" so I didn't have to.

a reply to: CornShucker

Great!

I don't know why it is that nobody seems interested in what the Parkland doctors saw. From what I understand, they made a sort of pact not to talk about it soon after the assassination. I think they were told not to talk about it if you know what I mean. Besides Crenshaw, nobody has said much of anything that went against the official line. Before that they did, but that ended abruptly. When Crenshaw wrote JFK Has Been Shot the other doctors shunned him.

I can't wait to see this film. I hope it generates some buzz but we'll see. Most people I run into have zero interest in the subject, but to me it is one of the most important things we can try to unravel. If people just knew how important it is and how relevant also. The same forces are still pulling the strings even though most who were involved are long dead.

a reply to: wtbengineer

I stumbled upon this on YT while surfing around last night.



Follow this link and there is info at the bottom on the work being done and the place where I chipped in a few dollars.

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: CornShucker

Thanks CornShucker! I actually just did a search for it this morning and found an article that appeared to be a little old. The article said the project was 80% done and I know you mentioned that it is done now. This article said the name of the film was The Parkland Doctors. Off to look at the link you sent me now, thanks again!

a reply to: Blue Shift

To be perfectly honest, i don't like conspiracy theories...i'd much rather have the truth from the outset.

Idealistic i know.

a reply to: CornShucker

Here is just one more bit of trivia that the "coincidence believers" surely consider beneath their notice, but the patriarch of the Kennedy family, Joseph P. Kennedy Sr., had one of those love/hate friendships with printing magnate Henry Luce. In fact, it was the kind of male friendship that would overlook Kennedy taking Clare to bed when the Luces visited United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. in England.

You are on the right track here because JFK was not his own man. JPK dominated his life, classic narcissistic parent syndrome, it wasn't until his forties that Jack Kennedy differentiated his fathers policies from his own.

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter
a reply to: CornShucker

Here is just one more bit of trivia that the "coincidence believers" surely consider beneath their notice, but the patriarch of the Kennedy family, Joseph P. Kennedy Sr., had one of those love/hate friendships with printing magnate Henry Luce. In fact, it was the kind of male friendship that would overlook Kennedy taking Clare to bed when the Luces visited United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. in England.

You are on the right track here because JFK was not his own man. JPK dominated his life, classic narcissistic parent syndrome, it wasn't until his forties that Jack Kennedy differentiated his fathers policies from his own.

I don't remember which of you guys recommended "Brothers" to me, but it is now a valued part of my library. The Luce vendetta against JFK was still going when Johnny Carson was given his "marching orders" before Jim Garrison's Tonight Show appearance. The only interview I can think of that was worse as far as being abrasive and rude was Lipton's appearance on Tom Snyder's Tomorrow show.

Even the evening news took their potshots...

He gave as good as he got.



The second part of "Brothers" left me in deep melancholy... JFK (at his own peril) was more inclined to turn the other cheek and offer former adversaries the opportunity to show their loyalty to country and a chance at redemption. Walker was "purged", as has recently become popular but moved to another position in service. Another is Henry Cabot Lodge. Both proved unworthy of that trust. Bobby, on the other hand, was more inclined retaliate... Reading of how broken the assassination left him was rough. I was a big supporter of his campaign.

originally posted by: CornShucker
I don't remember which of you guys recommended "Brothers" to me, but it is now a valued part of my library.

It might have been me, I was reading that one earlier this year.. it also changed my generic view of the Kennedy's. But the meat & potatoes I'm reading now "The Kennedy's: An American Drama" 1984 by Collier & Horowitz has permanently altered my subjective view of the Kennedy's in political history.

(It is a very fast read.. although I have to keep putting it down because my preconceptions of JFK have twisted up my general view of American political history.)

PJK himself was obsessed with controlling the lives of all of his children. The kids were spoilt rotten, depended on daddy's money for everything... well into and beyond adulthood. I don't think JFK ever got a job or admittance into a university without lot's of daddy's money helping (behind the scenes, of course.) The first 250 pages of that book are something that *most* people don't bother to consider when looking at Nov 22nd.

PJK was a flat out Wall Street mercenary who manipulated stocks in the late 1920's and his activities would today be considered as insider trading and stock manipulation.

So whenever you read about the Kennedy sail boating races or the Kennedy compounds or the European trips or the political campaigns it is important to understand where all that money came from... it came from the stock manipulation in the 1920's.

The second part of "Brothers" left me in deep melancholy... JFK (at his own peril) was more inclined to turn the other cheek and offer former adversaries the opportunity to show their loyalty to country and a chance at redemption. Walker was "purged", as has recently become popular but moved to another position in service. Another is Henry Cabot Lodge. Both proved unworthy of that trust. Bobby, on the other hand, was more inclined retaliate... Reading of how broken the assassination left him was rough. I was a big supporter of his campaign.

Me, too! The melancholia in the last chapters of "Brothers" was well written and convincing.... but remember that RFK chose to support the Warren Commission in public statements.

Perhaps this thread is not the appropriate place to go into the Kennedy family itself or the narcissism of JPK. However, I should say that, when I look at Nov 22nd now, I don't feel much sympathy for them anymore.

JFK, the silver spoon fed, the sickly, second born male child of JPK, never stood a chance against JPK's enemies.

RFK, attuned to the forces against him, chickened out and supported the Warren Commission conclusions.

Once you realize where the Kennedy's came from and how they met their demise the Camelot Mythos almost seems to fade away. For an investigator like me... I hate mythos.... I hate hagiographies... and I have not yet seen a strong argument from any JFK or RFK assassination researcher that stipulates when & how the Kennedy's got their money (in the 1920's). If there is a book out there... I'd like to read it.

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter
-- snip --

Me, too! The melancholia in the last chapters of "Brothers" was well written and convincing.... but remember that RFK chose to support the Warren Commission in public statements.

-- snip --

The following information is within the pages of "Inside The Assassination Records Review Board" by Douglass P. Horne and published on demand by Amazon.

It's difficult for me to imagine the turmoil within RFK's mind after the assassination...

Through the work of the ARRB we now know that there were THREE autopsy reports. Nearly everyone is aware that CDR Humes burned version #1 in his fireplace. The "official" report is #3. Report #2 was nixed when Bethesda found out that a bystander (James Tague) had been struck by the results of a miss/ricochet.

Before the situation with Tague became known, they had concocted a report to fit the narrative they wanted to feed the American people (a three shot scenario). I am on the edge of my seat with fingers crossed that Dr Malcolm Perry is included in the upcoming documentary. I don't recall the name of the nurse at the moment (it's in Horne's book), but the morning after the assassination she remarked on how haggard Perry looked. He told he that wasn't surprising considering that Bethesda had spent the night hounding him with phone calls regarding the tracheotomy. (I've already covered the entrance wound to JFK's throat earlier in the thread) Because the original wound had been about the size of the eraser on a #2 pencil with a short vertical and slightly wider horizontal incision but was grossly enlarged by someone on the flight from Dallas in the process of removing the slug, it had never been considered an entrance wound at Bethesda.

Report #2 which was based on a three shot scenario was given the AG, RFK. So Bobby knew from the night of the assassination that his brother's murder was an ongoing deception that involved so many connected to the government that anyone and everyone was a potential co-conspirator.

It is a major frustration for me to have to tell those who are interested that there are only two options:

#1. Make an appointment to go to the national archives and look at the pertinent document(s).

#2. Buy Horne's book. One way to save a few dollars is to know which of the five books contains the info that you are interested in. They are printed on demand and you can go to Amazon and order any single of the set. Buy book #5 first, if you want.

Horne goes into great detail about the process Bobby went through to rid himself of the physical evidence that was no longer of any appreciable use to anyone but the most morbid. The name of the ship and its officers is documented as well as the date. Even the amount of holes drilled in the "ornate" coffin that was damaged during the shell game with JFK's body at Bethesda is documented. The entire "package" was banded up, a wooden skid built around it and then banded again. It is now on the bottom of the Atlantic ocean at great depth at an undisclosed location.

Somewhere over the years I read of Oswald's widow describing how unhappy she'd been with the way she'd been treated and her disgust at the official version of what happened (she knew more English than they'd thought and knew the translator she'd been given was not giving truthful translations of what she'd said). When she was asked why she hadn't spoken up, she got very angry and said something to the effect of, "You remember what it was like! I had two small children I had to think about!"

When asked about the Warren Commission's statements, Bobby knew that it would be tilting at windmills to disagree with the WC without rock hard facts to back him up. In his own way I would imagine he felt like Marina had...

a reply to: Blue Shift

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) was established in 1976 to investigate the assassinations of John F. Kennedy...concluding that Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The HSCA determined, based on available evidence, that the probable conspiracy did not involve the governments of the Soviet Union or Cuba. The committee also stated that the conspiracy did not involve any organized crime group, anti-Castro group, nor the FBI, CIA, or Secret Service. The HSCA concluded that these scientific studies of assassination-related evidence do "not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President.

The Committee further concluded that it was probable that: Four shots were fired. The fourth shot came from a second assassin located on the grassy knoll, but missed.

Robert Blakey later issued a statement that he believed the CIA was not forthcoming in many details involving activities that CIA and Oswald were involved in. There are many details involving LHO, involving the Soviets, our U2 program, intelligence and counterintelligence activities of CIA that cannot be coincidental. Like CIA, Hoover concealed many details about LHO.

Wiki HSCA

a reply to: DeadSeraph

I also believe that 'rogue' elements of CIA most likely were involved, probably with the mob. LHO was the patsy, Ruby killed him to keep him silent. There def was a conspiracy beyond just LHO, Ruby shooting LHO proves that. Two shooters, 4 shots. The attempt on JFK would have been to important to Not have two shooters and a great choke point to guarantee a successful shot.

originally posted by: CornShucker
I've spent a good bit of time going over the particulars of what is expected of ATS members when they source their material. This is in NO MEANS a criticism. Considering my own experience with trying be fair and at the same time insure I gave no wrong impressions, I appreciate the need to be clear as to source of what you post.

In order to post certain things I've learned, I'd need to come pretty close to writing a small book and it is as silly as it is beyond what I am able to commit to.

There are a handful of points I may try to cover, later. As much as I'd like to make the assertion now, I'll wait until I can make a post and know it stands on its own.

To stay on topic...

Here is just one more bit of trivia that the "coincidence believers" surely consider beneath their notice, but the patriarch of the Kennedy family, Joseph P. Kennedy Sr., had one of those love/hate friendships with printing magnate Henry Luce. In fact, it was the kind of male friendship that would overlook Kennedy taking Clare to bed when the Luces visited United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. in England.

Kennedy watched the JFK acceptance speech from the Waldorf-Astoria with Henry & Clare.

Is it just a "coincidence" that the same man who would later buy and then sit on the Zapruder film express total contempt for JFK after the Bay of Pigs? Clare went so far as to financially sponsor particular clusters of anti-Castro Cubans that she referred to as "her boys".

Assassination of JFK is a glaring example of how Occam's Razor doesn't always apply...

Everything in this post is available if you read:
Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy...
by David Talbot
(as far as I can tell) Published by Amazon

Clare was definitely in on it . . . she controlled her husband with '___' and then killed him . . . had CIA ties . . .

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: Nochzwei

Nah, they tried their best at Parkland, they had to it was the President for crying out loud. He was dead, they knew it, but they couldn't stop trying anyway. He was dead way before he was declared dead.

Exactly. As paramedic and nurse I can attest that regardless of injuries, with the exception of some injuries, there are protocols, for both trauma and medical, that are adhered to during resuscitative efforts. For example, in trauma patients that cardiac arrest, you infuse at least two liters of normal saline, bilateral needle thoracostomy of the chest, CPR, epinephrine IV, and perhaps, pericardiocentesis, if a penetrating injury is present. You pretty much go 'through the motions' with certain types of injuries, especially the head injury JFK suffered. Unfortunately, he would have made a fantastic donor, had they decided to harvest his organs. The same can be said for medical illnesses that result in cardiac arrest. It's just a protocol and guideline to follow to avoid missing something.

a reply to: Cosmic911

In regards to rogue elements of CIA, the Agency was still in it's infancy. Having only been formed by Truman in 1947, I'm sure it still functioned as a 'boy's club' of OSS agents. Kennedy would Not have been included in that 'club.'

Conspiracy theories about assassinations seem harmless nonsense next to these nuts who believe the July 7 attacks in Britain, the Sandy Hook school shootings, the Orlando nightclub shooting, and other such scenes of mass carnage are put-ons by actors paid to undermine gun ownership rights or any such absolute garbage. No doubt even lunatic opinions are protected by freedom of speech but perhaps this sort of statement if made seriously should be declared a crime, as is holocaust denial in Germany. You can't just claim anything--there are such things as slander and libel.

That being said, I believe at the very least such a mass of mistakes and screwups occurred during and after John F. Kennedy's assassination as to make it look like a coverup, either of a conspiracy or of people trying to downplay their own blunders. I voted yes that Oswald shot Kennedy, as I believe he owned the gun, brought it to the building, fled the building immediately afterwards having somehow left his finger and palm prints all over the gun, was the only employee found to be missing when a head count was made right after the shooting, and he did kill the police officer with another weapon and resisted arrest. It's been demonstrated that the shooting could have been accomplished by a really expert marksman using Oswald's rifle, and why conspiracists would recruit a nut like Oswald (other than as the perfect fall guy) or equip him with one of the crappiest weapons available to accomplish such a major goal are great questions.

It's been said that JFK and his brother RFK's shootings were connected--that Bobby was going to get to the bottom of who was behind Jack's death and so was killed. Recently it's been said that Aristotle Onassis had hated Bobby for at least 15 years and put up the money to have him killed, that Onassis's own daughter knew the money could be traced to him but wanted to believe it went for something else, and when she died the whole investigation was dropped. RFK's shooting was by more than one gunman whether or not it was a conspiracy or simply more than one armed person in the room out to get him. (It's believed Sirhan went to get him but did not fire the fatal bullet, and a security guard who hated Kennedy took advantage of the situation. Many people in the room were filming or taking stills and some of the images have mysteriously disappeared.) The only person shot in the head who appeared dead at scene was a man named Paul Schrade (despite the movie Bobby, it wasn't Elijah Wood). Paul Schrade is in fact still alive and it's been well demonstrated that the person who shot him cannot also have shot Robert Kennedy--Sirhan Sirhan never got far out of the same position and the shots were fired from completely different positions. Also I believe they found more bullets than that gun held, and Sirhan never reloaded.