originally posted by: seagull
Which do I prefer? That's a horrible way to phrase it, but I digress...
-- snip --
None of these entities by themselves had the moxie to do the job. But an unholy alliance of some, or all, of these? That's something else
I gotta admit that I agree with your reaction as far as this thread's title. Once you title a thread, you can't go back (as far as I know). My
impression was never that any disrespect was meant by it.
To your second point... I find it terribly sad and depressing, but I think you are 100% right when you suspect a full-on government alliance
facilitated by the CIA but including compartmentalized groups of all of those suspected of being involved (including the Mafia and the CIA trained
They can say it takes a village to raise a child, but it takes a country
to kill a president...
I've made the mistake of letting myself get mired down in John Newman's "Oswald and the CIA
" and become a bit side-tracked. Originally I'd
hoped to be able to incorporate parts in what I wanted to post next, but the format of how the "Agency" handled files and records back then makes it
virtually impossible for me to lay out information that would be readable for the average person. After all, they were still depending on punch-card
data entry back then.
Hopefully I'll have the info on the aborted Chicago trip in early November 1963 posted within the next few days. I've been concerned that the thread
might be lost due to inactivity, but the Newman book sucked me in... If you can get past the arcane way they did things it's extremely interesting!
When you compare the way Oswald's information was handled to that of other Americans in the Soviet Union, something just doesn't smell right when the
CIA's image of Oswald's case is set alongside the case that the FBI and the Marines had on him. It's painfully obvious that he was NOT
loser/loner he was made out to be immediately after the assassination.
JFK was seen in the eyes of the Cold Warriors as guilty of Treason
for conspiring with the enemy to wage Peace. He paid for it with his life,
but let there be no doubt...
Nuclear disaster was not prevented because of American bluster or fear of our country's military might. It was avoided by two men, John F.
Kennedy and Nikita Khrushchev.
When Soviet Ambassador to the US, Anatoly Dobrynin, reported Robert Kennedy's words to Khrushchev, they nearly coincided with remarks from Castro.
RFK had said, "The President is in a grave situation and he does not know how to get out of it. We are under very sever stress. In fact we are under
pressure from our military to use force against Cuba... We want to ask you, Mr. Dobrynin, to pass President Kennedy's message to Chairman Khrushchev
through unofficial channels... Even though the President himself is very much against starting a war over Cuba, an irreversible chain of events could
occur against his will. That is why the President is appealing directly to Chairman Khrushchev for his help in liquidating this conflict. If the
situation continues much longer, the President is not sure that the military will not overthrow him and seize power." [Covered in "Khrushchev
" by Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev (p. 497-498) & "Thirteen Days: A Memoir of the Cuban Missile Crisis
" by Robert F. Kennedy (p.
Meanwhile the U.S. Air Force launched an ICBM from Vandenburg on 10-26-1962 (the day before the U-2 was shot down). While the unarmed missile was
targeted for Kwajalein in the Marshall Islands, it isn't hard to see how easily this could have been misinterpreted by the Soviet Union. Just three
days earlier Vandenburg had received a nuclear warhead and been placed on full alert. If the Soviets and responded, everything we had was armed and
ready, DefCon-2. [Covered in "The Limits of Safety
" by Scott Sagan (p. 79)]
American Strategic Air Command airborne-alert bombers intentionally flew past the routine return points toward the Soviet Union, something obvious to
Soviet radar and a clear attempt at provocation... [Covered in "The General and World War III
" by Richard Rhodes (p. 58-59)
Khrushchev had just received word from Castro that they considered a U.S. attack "almost imminent". [Covered in "Eye of the Storm
Lechuga (p. 88)
One needs to bear in mind that the Joint Chiefs had no way of knowing that there were actually live nuclear weapons at the ready in Cuba. That is one
area where Khrushchev seriously miscalculated. He hadn't advertised the fact and we didn't know until the early '90s.
So just how close did we come to a full blown nuclear war? Not nearly close enough for our Cold Warriors. The biggest threat to the country that
they saw was from a President lacking the b*lls to attack the Russians in Cuba.
On 10-19-62 the president met with the Chiefs and General LeMay argued strongly for an immediate attack on the Russian missiles. President Kennedy
asked, "What do you think their reprisal would be?" LeMay stated there would be
no reprisal as long as Kennedy warned Khrushchev that he was
ready for a fight in Berlin, as well.
Admiral George Anderson spoke up in agreement and Kennedy's sharp reply was, "They can't let us just take out, after all their statements, take out
their missiles, kill a lot of Russians, and not do...not do anything." [Covered in "Averting 'The Final Failure': John F. Kennedy and the Secret
Cuban Missile Crisis Meetings
" by Sheldon Stern (p. 123, 125)
edit on 6 10 2015 by CornShucker because: formatting
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edit on 6 10 2015 by CornShucker because:
edit on 6 10 2015 by CornShucker because: fixed wrong word