No Justice...Any legal experts out there?

spartacus699
oh so the driver actually was trying to kill your son is that it?

I don't know if you meant for this statement to be as rude as it sounds, but wow. It comes off as a very rude thing to say. And I usually enjoy your posts on ATS.

And no, of course I don't think she was trying to kill my son. Come on, how many people wake up in the morning and think to themselves "Gee, I think I'm gonna see if I can take out a little kid with my car later today." I mean really???

However, I DO think she was negligent behind the wheel, based on what the 3 people closest to the accident (have I ever said it was anything other than an accident?) have told me. Common sense should tell people that looking at your phone while driving down the road - especially next to public park and on a street that has an enormous amount of pedestrian and bicycle traffic - is just setting yourself up for trouble..

And furthermore, I have said earlier in this thread that if there was some form of proof available that showed me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she was not looking at her phone and was totally focused on the task at hand - driving - I would let it go with grace. I don't wish any harm to this woman or her child. But I don't think it is right that she can run over my child because she wasn't paying attention to the road and devastate my family emotionally, psychologically and now financially and walk away from it all without so much as an "I messed up, I'm sorry."

Sometimes a simple apology can go a long way in the healing process.

Are you looking for a civil suit or to hold the PD responsible for a 'botched' investigation?

Does your state have a 'cell phone law?

I am not an attorney nor can I give you any real legal advice, but I DO know how hard it is to go after someone that seems 'protected' especially in a small midwest town.

Thats why I suggested looking way outside your area for another attorney and or media involvement.




Have you filed a FOIA request to get all the records from the PD?


Also, I don't know how your state works on this, but where I live now, it takes a judge's order for the PD to get cell phone records. You as a person can't request it.

reply to post by jburg6


Yes, the going rate for injury attorneys here is 30%. I don't think he is trying to pull anything over on me where that is concerned. Honestly, my only complaint with my atty is that he won't bother to get the phone records even though I know he can subpoena them. Not truly knowing what happened...I can't describe it...it's nerve-wracking and it nags at the back of the mind, you know?

No charges were pressed, no tickets were issued to her or my son. Her insurance company has already agreed to pay out the maximum benefit that her auto policy provides for, which is $50K. My underinsured motorist coverage from my auto policy is also paying out $25K. So the atty gets his $25K and the medical providers and our health insurer will get to fight over the remaining $50K.

This all happened in Oklahoma (Stephens county) and the atty I hired is out of Oklahoma City - an hour and a half away from our town. Everything you told me is exactly what the atty has told me as well: She has nothing to sue for - no income, no assets, etc...so we just have to be happy with the insurance pay-out and pursuing criminal charges or asking the DA to at least ticket her for distracted driving doesn't help anything either. I wish the DA could force her to meet the child she hurt and tell him that she is sorry. My son doesn't understand why she doesn't have to apologize because in our home, you say that you are sorry if hurt someone, even if it's an accident. He knows she didn't hit him on purpose, but he thinks she should have to say "sorry" for hurting him and for breaking his bicycle.

And yes, I realize I will likely have to file bankruptcy. I had to file when my ex-husband and I divorced 9 years ago. I had re-built my credit and had a good credit score until all of this. My credit is so bruised with all of these medical bills that filing for bankruptcy might help my score at this point... It sure does make me wonder why I've bothered trying to maintain a decent credit score all of these years when someone else can make a mistake and POOF! - my credit score is trash and she gets to walk away unscathed.

I just keep telling myself that karma will solve all of this in the end.

palmalBlue2
Are you looking for a civil suit or to hold the PD responsible for a 'botched' investigation?

Does your state have a 'cell phone law?

I am not an attorney nor can I give you any real legal advice, but I DO know how hard it is to go after someone that seems 'protected' especially in a small midwest town.

Thats why I suggested looking way outside your area for another attorney and or media involvement.

edit on 20-11-2013 by palmalBlue2 because: (no reason given)

Have you filed a FOIA request to get all the records from the PD?

edit on 20-11-2013 by palmalBlue2 because: (no reason given)

Also, I don't know how your state works on this, but where I live now, it takes a judge's order for the PD to get cell phone records. You as a person can't request it.

edit on 20-11-2013 by palmalBlue2 because: (no reason given)

I have already filed the civil suit but she has no income or assets so the only thing to sue for was the auto insurance pay-out, which the insurance company has already agreed to pay. But the amount is not sufficient to cover all of the medical bills.

The DA said the reason he cannot charge her with a crime is because it is totally legal in Oklahoma to text and drive. Personally, I don't think she was texting - I think she was probably on facebook or pinterest as she appears to be on them non-stop.

I realized early on that a local attorney wasn't going to help me. She is part of a huge family with LE ties. So I hired an atty out of Oklahoma City, which is about an hour and half away from our town.

I didn't know that I even could request all of the records from the PD! I would love to see them for myself. How do I file such a request? And can I do it or does my attorney have to do it?

And yes, an average joe can't request phone records in Oklahoma either. I believe they have to be obtained through subpoena or maybe it's by a judge's order.

City Hall or The city attorney's office should be able to tell you.

In the city I lived in we had paper forms at city hall. Anyone could go in and request the form.

reply to post by palmalBlue2


Thank you for that info. Looks like I need to go down to the court house.

Keep in mind that a right to public information through FOIA is a federal law. They cannot deny you the right to request public records.

Well, first and foremost, Yea!!!! So glad to hear he is doing so well! That is awesome!!!!!!


This is the main problem of course:

I should probably also note here that her grandfather was a policeman in this town for several decades, although he passed away 2 years before this accident.

Now, what I am wondering, is if you have thought about, after you get the information from the police department, as palm suggested, taking your concerns about their misconduct in the investigation to the state police? I'm not saying it may not cause more problems from the locals if you do, but from everything you've posted, it sure sounds like they completely covered up for her.

And I'm going to admit this, you are a better lady than I. I better u2u you to clarify that. LOL

reply to post by chiefsmom

Oh, don't give me more credit than I deserve... You know how I was when this all first happened. I wanted that woman's head on a pike out on my front lawn to serve as warning to anyone who would mess with our kids!

But I finally had to try to put myself in her shoes and take into consideration that she is mom too, and her son is just as innocent in all this as my son. At that point, I realized that I can't want her to go to jail over this - she has a baby to raise. And her parents should not have to raise that kid for her, as they did nothing wrong either. It's all on her and she will probably always be the only person who REALLY knows what happened. All I can hope for is that her conscience (IF she was in the wrong, of course) eats at her until she comes and apologizes. I also realize that if she hasn't put on her big-girl panties and apologized at this point, she never will.

I don't know...I guess at some point I just had to accept the new reality of our life now and resign myself to it and try to cope the best I can with it. Doesn't make me a good person, or anything...just a regular person trying to get thru life, I guess.

And thank you for all of your support over the last year. Sometimes it's easier to talk to interwebs friends than people from real life.

How far are you willing to go with this?

I mean it sounds like you went through the 'normal' process of seeking justice/compensation.
[no real help there]

Check you message box on occasion. I would like to help.

reply to post by palmalBlue2


I would take it to the ends of the earth if I knew how to do so. How can I not? This is my son's life we are talking about. This has changed his life. From the horrible headaches he still has to the fact that he can never play sports again. And then there's all the pills he still has to take. I would do anything for him...

I'll do what I can and post to you what I find either here or in your message box.

Also...it may not be until Monday before I can get back to you on some of this.

reply to post by palmalBlue2


Thank you in advance! I appreciate it so much!

You should have saved your fingers. Youll only get opinions and different opinions of opinions. This is not the place.....

Never...NEVER....come to a conspiracy forum for wither legal or medical advice. Ever....

If you want opinions? Youll get em. But all are reflected in that replying members' personal area, country, expertise or lack thereof, laws and all else.

It hard to get adequate and beneficial legal counsel that would apply to your own situation, location, laws and implications.

Everyone here from everywhere can/will reply with a variety of responses: some good, some bad, some detrimental and still some yes...beneficial.

Seek professional legal counsel applicable to the laws in your area, state, country etc. Seek competent professional medical counsel as well the same way.

Its important to understand this. Good luck.

Life is unfair and you just got dealt a big dose if it. That sucks. You have some choices, some of which you have already taken.

1. You have already sued in civil court. Pursue it and get a judgment. It doesn't matter of she has no assets. You want that on record. It's just like OJ. The Fuhrmans haven't got much from him, but if OJ does manage to sign a contract with Hertz, they get the proceeds. That judgment will always be there, and it's against his estate.

2. If you WANT to, you could sue the city based on the sloppy police investigation. In terms of actually getting money, this may be a better course of action anyway. that's a lot of time and effort, but it could be done.

3. Don't worry about not being able to pay the medical bills. Just don't pay them. They'll have to write them off. They have no real choice. They can't get blood from a turnip. Tell them that.

4. Don't worry about the city not filing criminal charges. Her being in jail, even if she got there, isn't going to do anybody any good. That's just revenge, which is best tasted cold. Being in jail means she gets a free place to stay, free food, and free medical care. That's a plus you really don't want to give her, paid for by the taxpayers, including yourself. For a first offender, it wouldn't be long anyway.

5. Realize that she is toast. If she ever got a job, you've got #1 up there to take any profit away from her. Yeah, maybe she could get someone else to take care of her. You can't prevent that possibility, but she'll never be a success in any true meaning of the word. She's relegated to basically no job or no significant job for the rest of her life, then social security, which by itself ain't all that much. So the point is that any dreams she had of being a success, buying a house on the lake, and driving an S-Class are gone. She's ruined her life, but your son has recovered.

6. Concentrate on your kid. Sounds like you have done a GREAT JOB so far!

reply to post by DustbowlDebutante


All I'm trying to say is that revenge tends to form in some scenarios like this but even if you could get full justice in some way it won't heal anything. I had a similiar thing happen actually. Different circumstances, but it was like, "out of everyone this could happen to, why me?" So I know it's hard. But again, we should try and love our enemies regardless. For the simple fact that it allows us to heal. If we don't we can't heal very easy. We just get spitful, vengful and bitter. And trust me, I know lawyers, I'm not saying all, but many are just scam artists. They look for people just like you. Then what happens is You've been victimized, then the lawyer victimizes you again because by the time they're done with you you'll be broke! Seriously. They start off saying "oh ya it should come out to $X amoutn in total". But then by the time they're done with you you've spent 5 times that and you still haven't gotten the result they originally promises. That's often how it works with criminal lawyers, or litigation attorneys. Trust me, avoid at all cost. If you can find someone to do something for "free" then ya maybe, but then you're wasting yoru precious time, emotional energy, and staying in a state of bitterness. I was thinking earlier today about that incident that happened to me. And when I was in that weird state of mind after the event I made so many extremely poor decisions. I realized now that it's because I wasn't in my right mind. I was in a state of panic and when you're paniced you tend to make the worst choices in life. But ya it's horrible what happened, don't get me wrong, my condolences.

reply to post by spartacus699


Thank you for your reply. I see what you are saying now.

I'm not looking for revenge, just a way to pay all of the bills. I have not paid a dime to this attorney. He only gets a slice of the pie IF he manages to recover any funds. I really didn't have much choice but to sue her in civil court because my son has insurance. In fact, he has primary insurance through my job and secondary insurance through his dad's job. Prior to this accident I thought that double-insuring our kid was a terrific idea and that we were good parents to do this. Now, I wonder. The insurance company paid on all of these claims - to the tune of over $200,000 and they want their money back because, technically, this isn't a routine health problem and was the result of an accident. I had subrogation attorneys for the insurance company calling me within 24 hours of the accident explaining that they would pay, but then either I had to sue her (her insurance company, really) and pay them back, or they could sue me/put a lien on any future settlement to recover the funds.

As I have said repeatedly, I'm not "out to get her" or anything. Trust me, if I was going to do something to her, I'd have done it already. It has been one year, one month and 3 days since this happened. I've had plenty of time to think about it all and resolve a lot of things in my own mind. In a way, it was a good thing that I had to live an hour and a half away in a hospital in another town for several months. The first 6 months or so, I was definitely a loose cannon and could have done something crazazy. I'm past all that now. My son is better and we are trying hard to put this behind us, but it's damn hard when the bill collectors just keep calling my cell, my work, my ex-husband, etc... I'm just looking to wrap up the legal and financial mess and hopefully come away not bankrupt.

And I won't have to take revenge. Karma has a way of sorting these things out. People of this woman's intelligence and caliber usually have a way of screwing themselves over.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


Thanks for the advice...

I have already retained legal counsel and my son has had some of the best doctors in the state - and we got second opinions from folks at Baylor in Texas.

I came here looking for opinions and advice from people and they are giving me just that and it is proving to be helpful. You know, sometimes someone who is removed from the situation can see and/or catch little things that otherwise would have passed by unnoticed. For example, I thought the District Attorney was the only person who had the power to do anything with my case. But one of the members on page one of this thread tossed me some knowledge about how to get around a lax DA and that there IS indeed a way around him.

I came, I asked and I am getting what I came here seeking. I'm happy with that and am infinitely grateful to the members here who have been kind enough to post and share their knowledge with me.

reply to post by schuyler


I would very much like to get a judgement against her so that when she does go back to work, she has to pay some of this back - whether it's to me, the medical providers or our health insurer. I know it won't be much, but it might cover one or two of his prescriptions each month, or I could use it to pay the doctors who saved my son's life - lord knows they earned their money. But when I mentioned this to my attorney, he said it is a waste of time. I agree with you and think it is a good idea.

When I worked in property management years ago, we would do this if someone skipped out owing rent/damages. Oftentimes, we had to get in line (behind other businesses who already had judgements against them) to garnish them, but eventually, if they held a job, we would start getting money via the garnishment. Heck, the office manager who came before me at my current job embezzled a couple million dollars over a 15 year span, and she had to pay restitution from prison and then when she got out and got a job she still had to pay. Granted, some months the company got a check for fifty bucks, but some months it was two hundred.

I just don't really know how to argue this point with an attorney. And honestly, our attorney is a very intimidating man. He has been practicing law since the early seventies, and has shaped a great deal of Oklahoma state law through the cases he has worked and set all sorts of precedents and all that lawyer-y type stuff. His qualifications and achievements more than pass muster. And it only adds to his formidable presence. How would you go about pressing the judgement issue with a guy like this (if you were a fairly quiet, non-confrontational 35 year old mom)?

Eta: Regarding social security... She is only 21 or 22 years old, so she hasn't worked for very long and probably hasn't made much money in that time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to pay a certain amount into social security to qualify for it when you're 65? Like, if she never worked again in order to avoid the judgement, would she still be entitled to SSI when she is 65? Or would it only be a very small amount since she most likely has not paid very much in during the few years she has been old enough to work? I guess it doesn't really matter either way, just got me thinking and curious...

reply to post by DustbowlDebutante


You have to work 40 quarters (ten years) to qualify for social security.