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The Old Testament God is a Bumbling, Primitive, Idiot?

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posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


YES! That. @Pinke: I was thinking the same thing wind just said.

Have you heard of "Deism"? Because you project more of a deist type belief than an atheist.

Yes, there's a force, an indescribable, incomprehensible "source" that is emanated in what we see as "The Universe". We are only just NOW in the baby mode of understanding consciousness, the nature of 'eternal existence', and recognizing that we can't limit "God" to a personage, with human traits....
(although the founding fathers had it figured out to some extent; we are only now 'free' enough to explore it where they had to leave off due to "religious" pressure).

GOD IS NOT A PERSON. We are ALL emanations of the Divine Source....so is everything we see and experience IN THESE BODIES, over the course of infinite phases and forms of existence.

WE ARE PARTS OF GOD, just as the microbes in our bodies are parts of us.



(wind: Well said, very good explanation/description! *up* )
edit on 11/20/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


PLEASE refer to the 'replied to' post (that I made) linked above. Too late to edit it.....
I was mistaken when I referenced a paragraph typed from Indy to Unified. It was a response to Akragon.

I meant this bit:

Reincarnation is Machiavellian, the end, the last life, justifies every method and means of wickedness perpetrated by people. Does the end justify the means?

What did it take to get you to that last life? Progression of learning one mistake after another? And Nirvana or whatever you want to call it, justifies the mistakes?

This was the statement group to which I was responding. It was not one in yours to Unified.

Progression of learning one mistake after another? And Nirvana or whatever you want to call it, justifies the mistakes?


YES!!! Exactly!!!

(Sorry, everyone, for the post confusion. My bad.)



edit on 11/20/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


In my opinion, none of those gods, including the one in the Old Testament, are actually gods. They are products of and the evolution of primitive interpretations of natural forces and human characteristics, projected into stories for entertainment, as sense of awe and belonging, an explanation of thing not understood, control and lessons in morality.

If anyone was pushing any of the gods of antiquity as being the "One True God" I would have the same arguments with them as I have with the God of the Bible.


I find it very difficult to understand how anyone, especially Christians, still think of that Old Testament character as something to be worshiped and respected. I don't understand how anyone can honor such a character and I worry about those who do worship and continue to make excuses for such a seemingly inept and blustering God.

John must have been wrong when he declared "God is Love", because the Old Testament God is anything but.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Wildtimes,

Let me just say this..."I don't know".

There are things I cannot explain. But it seems to me that some people are using reincarnation in the Machiavellian way. I don't want to approach it that way. I would prefer that if I came back, it was because I had done something right. I am not Machiavelli, I don't believe the end justifies the means. I don't believe in Manifest Destiny, as in the right to claim something over someone elses life or purpose.

The thought of reincarnation sounds attractive to some people because it gives them the chance to come back and do the same thing over again, no matter how bad it was what they did. I'd rather make it right in this life.

And in some, I mean some, not all. I am sure there are many, many good people who would want to come back again, and let's hope that's the case. I think I would prefer it if the good came back instead of the evil. I don't know about purgatory either, but that's not something I grew up with. One thing is for sure, I never believed in Limbo, I believe babies go straight to heaven.

This is like Tess Of The D'Urbervilles, poor Tess buried poor Sorrow outside the church grounds herself because he was an illegitimate baby that was not baptized, so she did it herself.


So passed away Sorrow the Undesired—that intrusive creature, that bastard gift of shameless Nature, who respects not the social law; a waif to whom eternal Time had been a matter of days merely, who knew not that such things as years and centuries ever were; to whom the cottage interior was the universe, the week's weather climate, new-born babyhood human existence, and the instinct to suck human knowledge. Thomas Hardy. Tess of the d'Urbervilles (Kindle Location 1474).


It wasn't God who desired Sorrow to be in Limbo. And this is what I think is missing, the lack of mercy and compassion of people, because when I read this...Ezekiel 16

5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born. 6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.


And when I read that pleading, it breaks my heart that people think God is so cruel so they must also be cruel.

But, as I said, I don't know. But I think we should be judged for our works, whether they be good or bad. After all, the Egyptians at least weighed the heart against a feather before sending them across the river. But do you put coins on the eyes of your loved ones so they can pay the boatman?

I think some people think the same way about heaven and reincarnation, to some it is just escapism.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:16 PM
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The old 'Steamboat Mickey' looked pretty bumbly and primitive...but look at Mickey now!

Å99
edit on 20-11-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I am glad you waited until I came home before commenting on my posts, thank you. I wouldn't want to leave everything hanging with bated breath.

I would like to think God wasn't a bumbling, primitive idiot when He made me. I'm not such bad person and I'm fairly smart. So if I'm worthy to be a person, then God can't be all that bad. And here you are, if I believe God made me, I believe God made you too. And I certainly don't see you as less than me. So I wouldn't think God was a bumbling idiot in making you either.

We, as humans, forget that about each other.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:27 PM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


In my opinion, none of those gods, including the one in the Old Testament, are actually gods. They are products of and the evolution of primitive interpretations of natural forces and human characteristics, projected into stories for entertainment, as sense of awe and belonging, an explanation of thing not understood, control and lessons in morality.

If anyone was pushing any of the gods of antiquity as being the "One True God" I would have the same arguments with them as I have with the God of the Bible.


I find it very difficult to understand how anyone, especially Christians, still think of that Old Testament character as something to be worshiped and respected. I don't understand how anyone can honor such a character and I worry about those who do worship and continue to make excuses for such a seemingly inept and blustering God.

John must have been wrong when he declared "God is Love", because the Old Testament God is anything but.


Because windword, the God I know is everlasting. He didn't just exist then.

I don't know God in His fullness or totality, no one can ever claim that here. But He reminds me every day who He is, and I don't feel the need or compulsion to do mean and terrible things. Maybe the God you heard about and the God I know are different?

When I read the OT, I take every moral lesson and apply it to my life. What can I learn from this about what to do and what not to do? Can I see the effects of their actions? Yes, I see there were effects. But the God I know is love and mercy and compassion and grace, but one also who loves me enough to tell me when I am wrong.

Isn't that what you say about your friends, you love your friends more for being honest? I believe in the eternal God, the one who existed before the OT and exists now.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



I am glad you waited until I came home before commenting on my posts, thank you. I wouldn't want to leave everything hanging with bated breath.

I would like to think God wasn't a bumbling, primitive idiot when He made me. I'm not such bad person and I'm fairly smart. So if I'm worthy to be a person, then God can't be all that bad.
But that's exactly the point! Why do you think you are somehow 'flawed', and that without "Jesus" having sacrificed himself, you'd be doomed?


And here you are, if I believe God made me, I believe God made you too. And I certainly don't see you as less than me. So I wouldn't think God was a bumbling idiot in making you either.
Then, what is so hard about believing that God gives us more than one "chance" to get it together?


We, as humans, forget that about each other.

With this, I agree. So......why do some people claim that we are ALL bumbling idiots because of what an imaginary woman did some imaginary time ago, and so we are all hopelessly lost sinners???

We aren't. We are spirits having a physical experience...one of MANY MANY MANY required physical experiences until we 'get the message' that Jesus himself taught:
We are ALL children of the Divine. We ALL have the Divine Spark within us, and can do what Jesus did, and more! That is what he said!

The doctrine of 'fire and brim-stone for failure in this one puny lifetime' is the LIE, Indy. It's a lie.
It instills shame, self-loathing, helplessness, unworthiness, and complete lack of confidence in one's ability to transcend 'vice' "without accepting Jesus". AND THAT is NOT what he taught.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I respect the fact that you believe in a personal God. I just wonder if the God that you actually know is the same character that said this:


Deuteronomy 23:13
And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

14 For the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.


I don't believe in a God that has to potty train his soldiers. Mankind, as a whole, already knew about the smell of pooh, by that time, and mankind also knew that the smell of pooh could lead your enemies or animals of prey to you. So, was this a warning for young soldiers, to bury their pooh, or was this really a commandment from GOD because he disliked stepping in soldier's pooh?

Did GOD, the creator of the universe, really send bears to kill a bunch of kids who called Elijah a baldy? Or, was that a campfire tale, spun to scare young men into having respect for their elders?



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


What you are leaving out is the issue of faith. Jesus said by faith we could do what he did and greater things. Faith in God, the Logos revealed in Yeshua. God did give a lot of instructions and the blessings follow that wisdom as well as the curses for failing them.

The whole issue of Jubilee years would change our world if we kept this, but then we would not have a usury system. Man's ways seem wise in our own eyes, but the proof of the failure of our ways is all around us. Not one country truly follows the wisdom of the bible, and thus everyone blaming God with their fingers pointed Him needs to see the three fingers pointing right back at themselves.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


What do you mean by "divine"?



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by UnifiedSerenity
 




What you are leaving out is the issue of faith. Jesus said by faith we could do what he did and greater things.

No, I am not leaving out "faith." I have "faith" that we are all eventually destined to be reunited with the Source. No one can "prove it" to me, so I must take it on faith. What you read in the Bible and see as "a man who was God incarnate who said 'only through me'", is not what I read in the messages. WHAT HE SAID was that we are all capable of the same. That Elijah WAS John, returned...the he himself had been here before Abraham. And that if we believed him, and accepted these heavenly truths, we would be set free.

That's all there is to it. Believe what you will, Unified; and grant me the latitude to believe what I shall, and do, as I live this, my lifetime, here and now. I don't believe in a punitive, angry God. And if I, poor, wanton female sinner - born as filth - can figure out better ways to nurture and teach and unconditionally love my kids than your God can manage, then your God truly is an inept, bumbling inventor indeed. Whose creation has outwitted him.

I don't "admire the wisdom of men" as a whole. That's why I can disregard the theories put forward by men about things that they think they know, because they DON'T KNOW, any better than I do. And often less, since they are, after all, "men" who dismiss the feminine as lesser-than.




edit on 11/21/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


We share tons of biology, physiology, and psychology with many animals we consider to be inferior to us. In fact, I would say the surest proof of our being animals rests in the fact that the "King Phillip Only Chews Fine Green Spinach" system classifies us in the same way it classifies all other animals. Otherwise, we would be classified by a completely different system.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


The source that animates and realizes everything in the universe. We are already part of it; just as much as any super-nova or electron or ocean or cloud or blade of grass...it is all part of an overarching, unified system from which we are not liable to be "cast out", but of which we are an integral, indestructible, part.


edit on 11/21/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


And is this an esoteric thing, or an actual physical substance?



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:24 AM
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These thread titles are always done by atheist and just are insulting and so narrowminded towards christianity.They take away all humans aspect of the bible in the old testament which they claim is full of violence.The new testament has violence all through it.Every culture that ever existed has violence in it.

The atheist cannot even comprehend what a war is in the old testament.Instead they just call it Gods violence.
edit on 21-11-2013 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:30 AM
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AfterInfinity
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


We share tons of biology, physiology, and psychology with many animals we consider to be inferior to us. In fact, I would say the surest proof of our being animals rests in the fact that the "King Phillip Only Chews Fine Green Spinach" system classifies us in the same way it classifies all other animals. Otherwise, we would be classified by a completely different system.


AfterInfinity

That changed since I was in school. I think Wildtimes, Windword, Charles1952 and others of Generation X were taught in school Kingdom Phylum Class Order Family Genus Species Variety.

So they changed it, hmmm, what happened to variety?



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


You seem to be ignoring the point. Perhaps it's a concession in disguise. I know it's hard to argue with my logic, at least in this instance.
edit on 21-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:37 AM
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Jobeycool
These thread titles are always done by atheist and just are insulting and so narrowminded towards christianity.They take away all humans aspect of the bible in the old testament which they claim is full of violence.The new testament has violence all through it.Every culture that ever existed has violence in it.

The atheist cannot even comprehend what a war is in the old testament.Instead they just call it Gods violence.
edit on 21-11-2013 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)



you should probably check yourself.... The OP is Catholic...




posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


You are doing exactly what I thought you would. It's not faith in our outcome, it's faith in the Logos. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the LOGOS of God. If you do not believe the logos, then you do not have that faith. It is walking in your wisdom and your understanding as your lying eyes and heart deceive you as they do me and everyone else. The heart is deceitfully wicked above all things, and to walk by feeling and not by knowledge is a sure way to fall into destruction.

You will feel good, but you will fall nonetheless.

It's sort of like someone tripping on '___' believing they can fly as they walk off a 40 story balcony. The sign said,

DO NOT WALK OFF THE BALCONY

The deluded soul felt they could fly and had faith in that belief. They died.
edit on 21-11-2013 by UnifiedSerenity because: (no reason given)



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