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The Old Testament God is a Bumbling, Primitive, Idiot?

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posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by UnifiedSerenity
 



The heart is deceitfully wicked above all things, and to walk by feeling and not by knowledge is a sure way to fall into destruction.


Says the guy who lives by faith.




posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:50 AM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I respect the fact that you believe in a personal God. I just wonder if the God that you actually know is the same character that said this:


Deuteronomy 23:13
And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

14 For the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.


I don't believe in a God that has to potty train his soldiers. Mankind, as a whole, already knew about the smell of pooh, by that time, and mankind also knew that the smell of pooh could lead your enemies or animals of prey to you. So, was this a warning for young soldiers, to bury their pooh, or was this really a commandment from GOD because he disliked stepping in soldier's pooh?

Did GOD, the creator of the universe, really send bears to kill a bunch of kids who called Elijah a baldy? Or, was that a campfire tale, spun to scare young men into having respect for their elders?


I don't know windword, do you think Eli (not Elijah) didn't deserve punishment from God when he was warned by Samuel from God about his sons? Three times God told Samuel to tell Eli to stop his sons from raping women, Eli didn't, his sons were killed by God and then God killed Eli.

And that was Elisha, not Elijah, that was called baldy.

Let's put it this way, they knew that outside the camp was where they had to put all the unlcean things. It is kind of disrespectful to your neighbors anyway, wouldn't you think? I mean, wouldn't you feel pretty annoyed if you stepped out of your tent and someone had done that in front of your tent? But think about that a little bit, we know that open pooh leads to disease, it is more about common sense. In other words, use common sense and don't spread Dysentery, because you will all get weak and the enemy will find out, and you'll all get killed by the enemy. So don't be stupid. They didn't exactly have sewage treatment in those days, the Romans did later, but think also about this, if the enemy smelled it, all they had to do was wait for the spies to come back and tell them they were all sick. Use common sense, don't put everyone at risk.

But those who have children, by the time they are teenagers, don't the parents kind of expect them to use the proper facilities?



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


So you really did decide to ignore my point. Well done.

Here's the link if you decide you want to stop ignoring it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 21-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



And is this an esoteric thing, or an actual physical substance?

It's the sum of all things, esoteric and actually physical.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I understand that I am flawed, I am a human. But does knowing that I am flawed cause me to have self-loathing? No, I have a fairly high self-esteem about myself. But when I see a flaw in me, I tend to say "Gee, is this flaw causing me to hurt myself or someone else?" If it only hurts me then I know that's between me and God, but if my flaw causes me to hurt someone else, then it is no longer just me and God, but that person also.

I recall that you were a counselor, how did you deal with people who needed help because of their flaws? Did you tell them they were not flawed and sent them out the door with the same flaws they came in with?

Some people should be filled with self-loathing for what they do, but how many aren't? They go on raping and abusing because they don't perceive themselves as flawed. When they finally do, they end up in counseling. It's the blaming of the innocent as having the flaw that causes the problems.

Do you think the movie Precious gives the idea that the blame is never going onto the real flawed one? The book was a true story by Sapphire and I had read that long before it became a movie. But Sapphire was charging the fact that the system is flawed. The whole system of humanity is flawed.

Even Tupac recognized this.



If it's Brenda's problem, it's the whole community's problem. Was Brenda flawed? The Jesus I know would have held Brenda in His arms and said "I love you" but the community flaws put Brenda is this horrible situation. What laws would you, as a counselor, have recommended she be charged under?

If Brenda was 21 instead of 12, then the conversation changes.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by UnifiedSerenity
 



You are doing exactly what I thought you would. It's not faith in our outcome, it's faith in the Logos.

Exactly what you thought I would? Point out what 'the Logos' said, and what it meant?

You are so blind. It's pathetic, really. Enjoy your self-loathing, I want no part of it.
I know what Jesus taught. I was taught about it from the cradle. I know what I hear and what it means to me. I don't need you or a mega-church terrorist to shame me or denounce me or condemn me.

If you want that, be my guest, there's a pastor on every damned corner who'd be happy to tell you what a piece of crap you are, and how you deserve to burn in hell unless you say "Jesus saves." Leave me out of it, you are blind and brainwashed. Pathetic. I won't be darkening that door, I assure you.

Prideful and self-righteous much? You're a real piece of work, pal.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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AfterInfinity
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


So you really did decide to ignore my point. Well done.

Here's the link if you decide you want to stop ignoring it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 21-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


AfterInfinity, I am only human, let me address each thread as I can.

Have some patience, OK? I will get to you. I wasn't ignoring you, I can't post comment multi-task.

OK, I looked at your point of sharing biology and psychology and all that. Your logic is that because we are animal then we are the same as every animal. We had this conversation across several threads. I asked you what animal guide is your animal totem, what animal do you identify with?

Do you share biology with the Silverback Gorilla? Do you think as a Silverback Gorilla?

That's your logic, not my logic. I already said I don't believe we are animals. Are you descended from the great reptiles and is it ok to knock someone over with your triceratops horn? When you say we are animals, then choose an animal to identify with, then I would think, as many Pagans teach, you are connecting to the spirit of said animal you identify with.

Anton Levay said man is a wolf. So some people act like wolves, some act like bears, some act like rats, some act like snakes, but are you related to all of those animals?
edit on 11/21/2013 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



I recall that you were a counselor, how did you deal with people who needed help because of their flaws? Did you tell them they were not flawed and sent them out the door with the same flaws they came in with?


By talking to them about how they bought-in to the 'system', how their "coping mechanisms" are functioning (or not), how to think through options and consider outcomes, and how to assess their own "style of behaving" in terms of how it has been counterproductive (even if it worked at the beginning) or positive.

NO ONE who seeks counseling is having a perfect life. They come because they NEED help figuring it out.



I don't think you understand how much I respect you; I hope you stay aboard this runaway train, because you speak sensibly, and I have already complimented you on that...

Keep working at it. We'll all get there.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


It's not about whether we like the way the story ends, as if someone deserves to be smoted by God, and so we cheer, and say "God is Just". It's about whether or not it is believable that the creator of the universe would be concerned with such things.

Is it believable that the creator of the universe was sick of stepping in soldiers' pooh, and so took the time to speak concerning potty training etiquette when abroad? Not in my world.

Is it believable that the creator of the universe would send bears to kill a bunch of kids because they teased a doom and gloom, war mongering prophet?

Nope, not to me. I don't believe in a God that supports murder, death and war.

It's clear to me that whatever laws certain leaders felt needed to be enforced, did so by invoking the name of their god to lend authority to their desires. There is no evidence of an omnipresent, omniscient God in the Bible, in my opinion.


edit on 21-11-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:30 AM
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wildtimes
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity
 



You are doing exactly what I thought you would. It's not faith in our outcome, it's faith in the Logos.

Exactly what you thought I would? Point out what 'the Logos' said, and what it meant?

You are so blind. It's pathetic, really. Enjoy your self-loathing, I want no part of it.
I know what Jesus taught. I was taught about it from the cradle. I know what I hear and what it means to me. I don't need you or a mega-church terrorist to shame me or denounce me or condemn me.

If you want that, be my guest, there's a pastor on every damned corner who'd be happy to tell you what a piece of crap you are, and how you deserve to burn in hell unless you say "Jesus saves." Leave me out of it, you are blind and brainwashed. Pathetic. I won't be darkening that door, I assure you.

Prideful and self-righteous much? You're a real piece of work, pal.


Glad you see what I saw a few pages back... Its pointless talking to someone like that...

Brainwashed to the core... makes me sad really




posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

Actually, Charles and I are boomers.
But I get your point.

edit on 11/21/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



Do you share biology with the Silverback Gorilla? Do you think as a Silverback Gorilla?


Do I really have to answer that question for you?


That's your logic, not my logic. I already said I don't believe we are animals. Are you descended from the great reptiles and is it ok to knock someone over with your triceratops horn? When you say we are animals, then choose an animal to identify with, then I would think, as many Pagans teach, you are connecting to the spirit of said animal you identify with.


I'm not talking about that esoteric BS. I'm talking science. Biology, psychology, all of that. You're just going ridiculous places with this. Spirit animals...how does that even compute?



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Wildtimes

Thank you again. I respect you too. I know your job as counselor was tough. I would have no problem sending people to see you.

But there has to come a point when society does recognize that there is a Cause and Effect to actions and reactions. It gives both of us a headache when we see this going on. And I am sure there were times that you may have had difficulty not taking your work home.

We have a social worker in our building because there are some people here who do need a lot of help. Sometimes I go see her just to tell her to have a nice day. I know how tough her job is. But she is only human also, she needs to know her work is not in vain.

The other night someone asked me for advice about their child, I can't go into details about it, but the first thing I said was "I can't fully help you, because I don't have children, but here is my advice". I asked her which was more important to her, being a mother or being a woman. I told her to be more of a mother instead. She had made a comment of something her child said to her "My child said in counciling that she wanted to take from me the one thing I loved most". I said to her "Whoa, what did you love more than your child" It was a boyfriend. And so I told her maybe her child felt that....if I caught it on one sentence, then maybe her child was right.

After listening to her for a whole hour about the whole situation, and I'm not a social worker and they had already gone through counseling, 4 years later she is still having problems, the only thing I could say to her was this "My Christian advice would be just to forgive your child if you want peace" Don't tell me after 4 years of tearing you up inside about an event that you can't change what happened, and being angry all this time, because of a boyfriend, then maybe loving your child more then might have changed it then, so love her more now, as her mother.

But I'm not a parent. What do I know?



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:49 AM
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wildtimes
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

Actually, Charles and I are boomers.
But I get your point.

edit on 11/21/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


So you do remember that....lol.

See how things changed since then. At least we have better TV now, well, even that's debatable. When I was young, noooo Victoria's Secret commercials would have ever been aired before 9 PM, and the most risque commercials were Lainie Kazan singing about Aqua Velva.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:58 AM
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AfterInfinity
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



That's your logic, not my logic. I already said I don't believe we are animals. Are you descended from the great reptiles and is it ok to knock someone over with your triceratops horn? When you say we are animals, then choose an animal to identify with, then I would think, as many Pagans teach, you are connecting to the spirit of said animal you identify with.


I'm not talking about that esoteric BS. I'm talking science. Biology,



AfterInfinity

Because of this one word,

psychology
makes it esoteric. And sometimes a banana is just a banana.

I have to ask this silly question, do people remember when they were an animal in a previous life? Or is it because if we are connected, and some people do feel connected to certain animals, then what does that mean?

Shamans believe in animal spirit guides. They have put animal totems on different tools. Some Native American tribes believe the same way.

I will direct my point (and I don't know if you are American), in powwows, Native American men will dress in the regalia of certain animals to connect and identify with a certain animal, because they want strength or prowess associated with that animal.

It is an esoteric idea.

edit on 11/21/2013 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



But there has to come a point when society does recognize that there is a Cause and Effect to actions and reactions. It gives both of us a headache when we see this going on. And I am sure there were times that you may have had difficulty not taking your work home.

lol! Erm. yeah. I had so much difficulty not taking it home that I had to quit doing it. It was making me sick, and draining me of all I had. I had nothing left to give to my family at the end of the day...I wasn't suited for it, even though I thought I was, and I know I was a competent counselor...

I took all the stories to heart, and felt the clients' pain too harshly for my own (or their) good in a few cases.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:15 AM
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wildtimes
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



But there has to come a point when society does recognize that there is a Cause and Effect to actions and reactions. It gives both of us a headache when we see this going on. And I am sure there were times that you may have had difficulty not taking your work home.

lol! Erm. yeah. I had so much difficulty not taking it home that I had to quit doing it. It was making me sick, and draining me of all I had. I had nothing left to give to my family at the end of the day...I wasn't suited for it, even though I thought I was, and I know I was a competent counselor...

I took all the stories to heart, and felt the clients' pain too harshly for my own (or their) good in a few cases.


It is the innocent that gets hurt the most. I have met counselors and preachers alike with no compassion, but not all lack compassion. When people are indoctrinated with "survival of the fittest" to the point of thinking away what they said they were evolved to have, then it is just as bad.

And yes, if one does take that radical and extreme view of survival of the fittest, then compassion is thrown under the bus.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



makes it esoteric. And sometimes a banana is just a banana.


Hate to break it to you buddy, but the psychology books I studied in high school and college were not esoteric. They were science. The same methods were used, with just as reliable results. You think the police would employ psychological tactics if they were based on esoterics?

You're funny.


I have to ask this silly question, do people remember when they were an animal in a previous life? Or is it because if we are connected, and some people do feel connected to certain animals, then what does that mean?


Couldn't tell ya. Why don't you do a scientific study on it instead of pulling mystical answers out of the sky?


I will direct my point (and I don't know if you are American), in powwows, Native American men will dress in the regalia of certain animals to connect and identify with a certain animal, because they want strength or prowess associated with that animal.


And the ancient Vikings used to mark their foreheads with ash in order to receive a blessing from Odin. Native Americans also used to believe (and some still do) that the earth is carried on the back of a giant turtle swimming through the cosmos. So are you really attempting to undermine my argument by correlating it with Native American superstition?

Because that's only mildly related to what I was saying.
edit on 21-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


May I direct your attention to the person with the degree in Psychology who just told you it is esoteric.

If you studied psychology, then you know that it is still expanding and still evolving. What psychologist do you like the most? Freud or Jung? Those are both well-known and well-repected, but Jung holds to an esoteric, but then Freud did as well, when he studied dreams.

What dreams may come....

But think as you like, I'm not your professor.

BTW, that reminds me of my first college psychology professor, he told our whole class that drunkeness was just a state of mind. What is funny about this, is that the county I grew up in, Mercer County, Ohio, had for several years at that time had the second highest alcoholic rate in the entire United States, we followed Orange County, California. But the professor told them it was just a state of mind....Wright State University Lake Campus, 1985.
edit on 11/21/2013 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:39 AM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


It's not about whether we like the way the story ends, as if someone deserves to be smoted by God, and so we cheer, and say "God is Just". It's about whether or not it is believable that the creator of the universe would be concerned with such things.

Is it believable that the creator of the universe was sick of stepping in soldiers' pooh, and so took the time to speak concerning potty training etiquette when abroad? Not in my world.

Is it believable that the creator of the universe would send bears to kill a bunch of kids because they teased a doom and gloom, war mongering prophet?

Nope, not to me. I don't believe in a God that supports murder, death and war.

It's clear to me that whatever laws certain leaders felt needed to be enforced did so by invoking the name of their god to lend authority to their desires. There is no evidence of an omnipresent, omniscient God in the Bible, in my opinion.



OK, back to windword (I wasn't ignoring you)

Do you think the God of the Bible wasn't concerned with murder when He said "Thou shalt not kill"? And war, that was life back then, there wasn't such a thing as living in peace.

But today, you are a recipient of the contributions made by the descendents of those people. Why cheer their accomplishments that you use and then dismiss the God they believe in?

How many Jewish Nobel Prize winners have there been? Even Alfred Nobel, the creator of the Nobel prize, invented dynamite....

There has to be something there if the descendents can contribute great things.



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