If not Obamacare, then what?

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posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 05:01 PM
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1) Make Health Care Providers tax exempt. The reason you are charged $200.00 for an  office visit is so that the Provider can write off the $120.00 that insurance/Medicare/TRICARE does not pay.
2) Apply the Balanced Billing Act to all Medical Charges. (Look it up). All allowable charges will be base on Medicare amounts.
3) Re institute the local "Health Department" for uninsured bene's. staffed by Physicians Assistants and supervised by Residents and M.D. via technology.
4) Allow the uninsured (4) Office Visits at 100% per year then apply an income based fee for additional, non-well, visits.
5) The uninsured will forfeit any IRS refund.
6) Lawsuit settlement levels will be defined. Liability Insurance rates will be based upon number of Patients bill. This liability Insurance premium  will cap at a determined level and reduce on a scale determined by Patients seen in excess. The premium at this point will be supplemented by tax dollars. 

Workers get coverage, the uninsured are insured and Providers are reimbursed.




posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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The government can't run anything successfully...they run it into the ground. Where you could pay someone $20 per hour, as I did today to have floor tile installed, the government will hire one person to layout the job, another to manage it, house them in offices, pay them a pension and insurance, bring in a contractor to do the work (which someone else is getting a cut of), etc. My room cost me $200 to have tiled. The government's room would cost $2000 or more and leave new people on the payroll. Our payroll.

Also...the government doesn't do anything to accomplish a task. They do it for what and how it will give them more power. From the flooring example, they now have a few more government employees that will always vote in favor of the people that will keep them employed. They will continue paying them obscene salaries to keep them happy.

The government has always been the absolute last group to trust doing any particular job. Always. Under every president. So why healthcare? Because them controlling it gives them the power to continue to tax you on it. It also gives them more information about everyone. And finally...it gives them the power to take it away from you.

Yes...we have given the government the power to use your healthcare as a weapon. And if you don't think they will use that weapon...think again. We are the enemy of the government. We are a necessary evil. They need their workers...their slaves. But slaves are worthless if they have any power. So now we don't.



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 06:10 PM
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I'm happy to see people talking about healthcare outside just the routine talking points favored by one side or the other. I believe that no change, single payer or otherwise will be any more successful than Obamacare unless the underlying causes of why healthcare costs so much in the US are addressed. I've seen some great suggestions and observations so far in this thread.

Contrary to the left's talking points, we do not have a free market healthcare system in the US. What we have is a patchwork of government provided health like Medicare, Medicaid, VA and various State programs that are built to serve certain groups and then the for profit system that the rest of us use. Calling it for profit is entirely appropriate, but it is far from a free market health system. Crony Capitalist, Monopolized, Over Regulated, and Cartel Controlled are far more appropriate descriptors for the US health system than free market. The healthcare industry routinely does business in ways that were they to be tried by any other industry would be felonious- Opaque pricing, monopolies, and cartels of doctors/pharma/hospitals that get to decide who offers services in a given area are just a few examples of practices that would be felonious in other industries.

Any reform that doesn't have driving down costs as it's main goal is as doomed to fail as Obamacare. A single payer system without the reforms necessary to drive down prices is probably even worse than Obamacare as it will simply extract in taxes the exorbitant prices for medical services currently in place. I can't really get behind anything the Republicans put forward because a decade ago, Republican health reform would have looked an awful lot like Obamacare, and they should be thanking whatever dark gods are in charge of them that the Democrats passed it and not them. When I hear them talking about using the Sherman Act or Taft-Hartley against hospital companies, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and other monopolist/cartel actors in the US health system, I'll pay attention to what they say.

I believe that if you were to break the monopolies and cartels; force all providers to post price lists that are transparent and valid regardless of method of payment (that being, same charge for insurance, medicare, medicaid or cold hard cash); not allow the AMA to set the number of medschool seats each year (limiting supply of doctors); repeal bans on reimportation of medicine; and other things that make healthcare less crony capitalist and more free market, you could collapse the cost of most medical services by 60-80%. There are already some doctor owned surgery centers doing this accepting cash only and billing 20% of what a hospital that takes insurance charges.

Any healthcare reform that is truly effective will of course cause a massive hit to GDP as healtcare spending is currently around 20% of GDP. The reforms I proposed above, if successful, would cause an immediate recession solely from lower healthcare costs. However, that 16% of the economy would fairly quickly (1-2 years) find its way into other more productive areas than the pockets of insurance CEOs, pharmaceutical execs, and politicians.



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 06:41 PM
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Mamatus
The USA has had a system in place for YEARS that works. It's called Medicare/Medicade. All that was needed was to issue each person a number (and reasonable bill) for a system that already exists.

However this plan had one fatal flaw. It would put all health insurance (for profit) companies out of business. Since lobbyists work for them so does Government. So this, despite being the easiest and simplest way to move to National Health care, is NEVER going to happen.

Freaking Insurance companies need to make PROFIT. Personally? Screw them and screw any plan that is not equal for all across the board. I will NEVER buy Obamacare, rather pay the fine.



I won't even pay any fines.. screw them all, the entire thing is illegal anyways.. The entire thing is incredibly a pathetic joke that it boggles the mind into mental oblivion..

I think Obama has helped the industry though.. By people even being exposed to his delusional and daily deceptions, it will create millions of people with mental health issues just from being exposed to him in any way.

Obamacare is more of a fail than running towards Obama with a handgun that you wanted to give him as a gift, would be.

I really hate the SOB
People are getting PTSS just from having him as a president..
edit on 18-11-2013 by alienreality because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Boadicea
 


Well for a start, why does it have to be called "Obama"care? Even Hitler never had the gall to name his healthcare system "Hitlercare". Why not call it Americare? Or something a little less totalitarian sounding, something which puts the PEOPLE as the center of attention and not Fuhrer Obama?

And why does Obamacare need a private security (read:police) force?

Meh.. whatever man. I'm not even American, what do I care? I've got my own fascist pigs to worry about. You guys sort your own out. Good luck.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 01:49 AM
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I personally believe Obamacare is an unintentional blessing in disguise. Here's what I hope will happen and it just might...

1...Obamacare needs to horribly fail...already is and will get worse.
2...Doctors and hospitals will have to start refusing insurance and go to a cash-only business...some already are!
3...Insurance companies will have to take the hit and offer insurance for catastrophic illness only.
4...Doctors, hospitals and patients will all reap the benefits of a true free-market system and prices will once again become affordable.
5...Thousands of non-profit charity hospitals will spring up across the country for the truly needy. More doctors will perform pro bono work as well, seeing how a true free-market system and private charity benefits them.

In order for this to work, we need to get the government out of the business...100%

This was the way things were before they got involved in 1973. Was it perfect?... nothing is but it was the best system we ever had!

www.upi.com...

edit on 11/19/2013 by maddog99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by maddog99
 


You know I have thought about this as well. That this whole failure may be one of the best things to happen since 1973.

I don't know if it is unintentional though. I have gone into coma like deep thought trying to figure out how a politician would even undo the mess that Nixon started with his health insurance scam in 1973. How one would undo it while still appeasing the insurance companies who depend on it...something like...Obamacare?

LOL.

Who knows. But you're right, if this thing fails and all the things you stated happen it will be wonderful for America. It will probably take about 7-10 years for the prices to start becoming competitive again. Just look at Lasik and how quickly the prices went down for it and that's probably what it would look like for everything else as well too. Lasik of course, is a state of the art procedure not covered by insurance. Subsequently it costs a fraction of what getting a bone put back into place does because the latter has inflated due to insurance.
edit on 19-11-2013 by OrphanApology because: ds



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 12:18 PM
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In 20 years socialized health care will be viable because our healthcare and technology will undergo an explosion in rate of development. We'll have human-like artificial intelligence, among other significant advancements.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


So you propose "healthcare" without doctors? The ones with the knowledge to help the hurt, sick and diseased. The people who spend 1/3 of their life and hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to achieve this knowledge? You are the most ignorant person I have ever heard comment on this subject. By miles and miles.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 12:46 PM
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Mamatus
The USA has had a system in place for YEARS that works. It's called Medicare/Medicade. All that was needed was to issue each person a number (and reasonable bill) for a system that already exists.

However this plan had one fatal flaw. It would put all health insurance (for profit) companies out of business. Since lobbyists work for them so does Government. So this, despite being the easiest and simplest way to move to National Health care, is NEVER going to happen.

Freaking Insurance companies need to make PROFIT. Personally? Screw them and screw any plan that is not equal for all across the board. I will NEVER buy Obamacare, rather pay the fine.



I agree, I am a licensed health insurance agent and used to sell health insurance... since Obamacare came about I stopped selling health insurance, just recently. I have a hard time backing something I despise and I made sure to tell everyone who was looking into it just what they could expect "affordable health insurance" to be.

Over the weekend we had a serious scare with one our twin girls, 18 month old. She had developed an acute version of croup and in the span of an hour went from being fine and going down for a nap, to waking up to not being able to breath. After and ambulance ride and 2 days in a pediatric ICU she is home again and healing. Our current insurance (which we just got paid in full by my wife's employer) is great... we had a higher deductible plan before that tripled in price thanks to the "10 essential benefits" of Obamacare and my wifes employer didn't pay for family members. Our out of pocket expense including the deductible is going to be around $2500.... I had looked up family plans on the exchange in our state and since we don't qualify for any subsidies for a family of 6 the only plan we could budget was a high deductible plan, this "affordable" plan had a $10,000 individual deductible and a max out of pocket of $17,500 for an individual and would cost our family $1250 a month. If this had happened and we were on an Obamacare plan we would be paying $20,000 out of pocket at the minimum. It's a joke and it is not affordable. It's a tax on the people in the guise of health insurance that may help a few people but the large majority of us who would be on it would be getting screwed with the out of pocket costs. We were lucky that when we saw how much our health insurance would cost that my wife told her employer she was walking if they didnt pay for our health insurance and cover the whole family (she has a lot of pull as the manager of a surgery center). I feel for all of the families that Obamacare is going to destroy financially if it isn't either seriously overhauled or removed completely.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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I like your ideas. I for one would fear any form of government controlled socialized healthcare until we get some people in office that will not rob us blind. Social Security at one point had almost a 2 trillion dollar reserve and the politicians went in and spent it and now we are left with a broken system full of I.O.U's that we still pay into and the younger crowd will never see. I can see the same thing happening with any sort of reserve we may have with a socialized tax based system of health insurance. Not to mention that whatever the government would devise as a fair tax to cover everyone would probably not be "fair" to the majority of tax payers and funds would be misappropriated to cover things we are lied to about. Once we start trusting government again, if that can ever happen, then we can look into a single-payer system. The insurance companies most likely would still be around to process claims and offer supplemental insurance for dental, vision and whatever else our single-payer plan doesnt.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 07:47 PM
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It's been a long time since I posted here but I wanted to chime in again and join the fray

It's never been a secret that I am a Socialist. I would love to see honest-to-goodness free healthcare. I would be willing to pay more taxes to have it free for all

I am in the VA system and use a very good hospital but also have the freedom to go to a bigger one when I am dire (lets hope that doesn't happen)

Recently I had two surgeries

1. remove a kidney stone...let me tell you how fun THAT was...

2. Carpal Tunnel Release - a great relief to be able to type and do other things without constant pain

But let me tell you the best part of all of this

Because I am not rich and spent a butt load of money on grad school, I am in a class of VA standing where I have no copays...AT ALL

It is an amazing feeling to go into the hospital, have myself cured and walk out not thinking for a second about having to pay

Now, I am not dumb. I realize the taxpayers make that possible for me and I would thank every single one of them if I could

My point being I would GLADLY take a tax hike if it meant each and every one of you could have the same opportunity to heal without fear of your depleted wallet like I have

Even when I am in the the 7 bracket (some copays) I only had to pay about 150 dollars for hernia repair and a half day stay in the hospital...I wish every one of you could feel the beautiful feeling of paying 100 bucks for surgery or nothing for that matter

I love this country...I just wish we weren't so obsessed with our current failing system to allow socialized and free healthcare



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 07:50 PM
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I don't know anyone, personally, that minded going to the doctor when they got sick, then paying the bill when you got it.

The doctors have always worked well with me on financing, now with this obama-snare crap, I'm being forced to pay for a private product I may not even need to use.

I say go back to how it was, you get sick, see the doctor, get your bill.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by Boadicea
 


If the country wasn't 17 trillion $ in debt, you could have enjoyed universal healthcare like we have here in Canada, with a single payer (government).

The only other option is what they're doing (via the ACA) to create competition and get everyone, including young people on the system, to bring prices down.

In Ontario you pay nothing for your OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan), but in BC it's about $50/mth/person.

And you would not believe the quality of care either.

Met an ex con at an AA meeting once who had cancer. He'd served time for a double murder conviction, part of a drug thing gone bad.

He was cleaning up his act, but anyway, he had a whole team of doctors and nurses at one of the best hostipals down in Toronto, and was fully covered for about 8 grand a month in medication, plus everything else.

He went into remission and then moved back to his hometown in Manitoba.

That's how the least among us are taken care of in Canada.

edit on 19-11-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 10:20 PM
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If not Obamacare, then what?

There is a reason vehicle insurance is dirt cheap: Interstate Competition.

Ins. co's across the whole country are competing for your business.

Democrats say the GOP resists Healthcare Reform and Has No Plan! An article of faith, unsupported by fact of course.

Conservatives have long called for Tort reform and real market competition in healthcare, resisted at every turn by, guess who? Democrats.

I have yet to hear a good reason why they resist it, in their own words.

The real reason is obvious: Trail lawyers are massive Dem donors, as thanks for vaguely worded, bad laws that keep lawyers wealthy, and interstate commerce has the disadvantage of not needing armies of tax fattened government bureaucracies who vote to expand government ever more.

Unless, some one knows of a better reason I am not aware of?



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 11:54 PM
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Two problems with your healthcare system:

#1) Employer healthcare coverage
#2) Insurance company healthcare coverage

Both of these are "FOR PROFIT" businesses...

Obvious problem is obvious.



Get rid of the damn profit-making middle man who isn't even friggin' needed.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by Boadicea
 

Free Market the way it was that made this country great is what. Can you tell me 1 successful venture by the gov that didn't involve the laws of God, men and nature being violated and millions made to suffer? Just 1?



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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AnotherSorryGuy

3) Re institute the local "Health Department" for uninsured bene's. staffed by Physicians Assistants and supervised by Residents and M.D. via technology.


Excellent idea -- and thanks for the reminder. When my daughter was born, I did not have maternity benefits, and it was a complicated, high risk pregnancy. (I was told I could never have children, didn't even think I needed it!). I received maternity care from a clinic associated with the hospital, and it was residents and Physicians Assistants who provided the care -- and it was excellent care. Many (maybe most) were on AFDC, but we paid out-of-pocket at a much reduced cost to conventional care. I was actually lucky to get in, because there was quite a waiting list, but I was accepted because it was such a high-risk pregnancy.

As someone else suggested earlier, the services of these residents and physicians assistants could be used against their student loans. In other words, by working at such clinics, they could receive credits paying off their loans as well as wages.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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WeAreAWAKE
The government can't run anything successfully... they run it into the ground....They do it for what and how it will give them more power....

The government has always been the absolute last group to trust doing any particular job. Always. Under every president. So why healthcare? Because them controlling it gives them the power to continue to tax you on it. It also gives them more information about everyone. And finally...it gives them the power to take it away from you.

Yes...we have given the government the power to use your healthcare as a weapon. And if you don't think they will use that weapon...think again. We are the enemy of the government. We are a necessary evil. They need their workers...their slaves. But slaves are worthless if they have any power. So now we don't.


I can't argue that. Obviously. I dread a single-payer system for exactly those reasons, and while incompetence is a real concern, what worries me most is that if they have the power to give to you, they have the power to take it away... and they can and will use it against you. But I also think that government can play a positive role too. It's a fine line to walk.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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jefwane
I'm happy to see people talking about healthcare outside just the routine talking points favored by one side or the other.... [snip]

Contrary to the left's talking points, we do not have a free market healthcare system in the US.... [snip)

Any reform that doesn't have driving down costs as it's main goal is as doomed to fail as Obamacare.... [snip] When I hear them talking about using the Sherman Act or Taft-Hartley against hospital companies, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and other monopolist/cartel actors in the US health system, I'll pay attention to what they say.

I believe that if you were to break the monopolies and cartels; force all providers to post price lists that are transparent and valid regardless of method of payment (that being, same charge for insurance, medicare, medicaid or cold hard cash); not allow the AMA to set the number of medschool seats each year (limiting supply of doctors); repeal bans on reimportation of medicine; and other things that make healthcare less crony capitalist and more free market, you could collapse the cost of most medical services by 60-80%. There are already some doctor owned surgery centers doing this accepting cash only and billing 20% of what a hospital that takes insurance charges.



I'm happy to see so many people discussing it too (thanks everyone). Just looking at the quality of ideas here, and then looking at the crap politicians want to cram down our throats, reinforces the point that Obamacare was never intended to really fix anything, just create new classes of winners and losers.... Health redistribution.

I'm so glad you made the point that what we have now is NOT free market health care. The hyper-regulation has gone far beyond protecting our best interests, to protecting those who can bribe our politicians best. At least under a true free-market, we'd all have a level playing field.





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