2.4 Million people in USA ready to work for $0.25 A Day Corporations hiring now!

reply to post by donlashway


nooo, thank you...

obamacare has got my back now

reply to post by donlashway

Bad capitalism leads to slavery. It is inevitable.

And I aupport capitalism but therw has to be laws that prwvent it from going extreme. I mean its great when a person can make their money and not hurt anyone (actually help others) but when it gets to the point where they produxe and profit using prison labor its just a hop skip and a jump from making prisoners to be employees.

STUPID right? Not so much when you lookbat the judges taking pay from private jails to give longer sentences because they made money on the inmates. That means ANY corporation that uses prison labor could get to a judge and do the same. Pay for longer sentences for more laborers.

It has to end. They should get a fair wage so they have a shot at an apartmwnt, food, or a life when they get out. If they work at all. Honestly I've chewed out a guard letting prisoners cut private lawns and asked him if he knew how many lawn carw services there were in town struggling like the rest of us.

charles1952
One of my problems is that I'm not quick to understand things that are obvious to other people. This thread is an example. In short, what is it, specifically, that's wrong here?

I'm not saying everything is right. What I'm saying is that everybody is saying that it's wrong, and I'm trying to find out why it's wrong.

What is wrong has several levels actually. First it creates an atmosphere where the State will be encouraged to create more prison worthy offenses to increase the prison population. Second we aren't talking about old school prison programs where inmates were learning skills they could put to use on the outside while helping to support the prison. In many cases uneducated prisoners are learning valuable employable skills but these same companies that are using dirt cheap prison labor will not hire these prisoners when they get out. The lack of viable economic stability increases the chances that they will return to a life of crime.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that prison workers be paid union wages, but we should be insisting that what they are paid for this labor and training lead into situations where upon release they have some money to start their life over along with employment opportunities. IT is very important to remember that this countries prison system was built around the idea of rehabilitation not just punishment. It is time we got back to that.

I found this highly relevant video and I think it worth checking out:




www.upworthy.com...

We're Being Robbed, But The People Doing It Will Never Go To Prison All societies need prisons.

I get that. I don't want dangerous criminals roaming the streets any more than the next guy. But what we don't need is private businesses that make big bucks off of questionable behavior.

reply to post by donlashway


You know it's big business when they can afford to buy, (lobby for), their own tax breaks.
Prison Inmate Labor Credit

10% Off $0.25 / hr. Oh what a deal

Note: Found another article; different spin but could it be same source; common pic? Please give your opinion of that?
Enlisting Prison Labor to Close Budget Gaps NYT


Some stats: The Prison Economy The Prison Index

Lowest wage reported, in dollars per day, for prisoners working in private industry533: $0.16

reply to post by KeliOnyx, buddha, JanAmosComenius, and BlubberyConspiracy

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

I really want to thank you for responding seriously to my question, and for providing thought-provoking answers. It's caused me to think and explore and, outside of just having fun, that's what ATS should be for.

I've noticed a number of posters who seem to be falling into old habits of blaming corporations for any thing that goes badly in a program, and crediting the problems to corporate greed. That's not always the case, but I admit that it seems popular here.

The New York Times published an interesting piece this summer. We know that if a corporation is at fault, they'll mention it. Here's some of what they had to say:

The prison population in the United States dropped in 2012 for the third consecutive year, according to federal statistics released on Thursday, in what criminal justice experts said was the biggest decline in the nation’s recent history, signaling a shift away from an almost four-decade policy of mass imprisonment.

“This is the beginning of the end of mass incarceration,” said Natasha Frost, associate dean of Northeastern University’s school of criminology and criminal justice.

Imprisonment rates in the United States have been on an upward march since the early 1970s. From 1978, when there were 307,276 inmates in state and federal prisons, the population increased annually, reaching a peak of 1,615,487 inmates in 2009.

“They’re not simply pinching pennies,” Mr. Gelb said. “Policy makers are not holding their noses and saying we have to scale back prisons to save money. The states that are showing drops are states that are thinking about how they can apply research-based alternatives that work better and cost less.”

Changes in state and federal sentencing laws for lower-level offenses like those involving drugs have played a central role in the shift, he and others said, with many states setting up diversion programs for offenders as an alternative to prison. And some states have softened their policies on parole, no longer automatically sending people back to prison for parole violations.

The result has been an unusual bipartisan effort to reduce the nation’s reliance on prisons, with groups like Right on Crime, devoted to what it calls the “conservative case for reform,” pushing for lower-cost and less punitive solutions than incarceration for nonviolent offenders.

Some of the most substantial prison reductions have taken place in conservative states like Texas, which reduced the number of inmates in its prisons by more than 5,000 in 2012. In 2007, when the state faced a lack of 17,000 beds for inmates, the State Legislature decided to change its approach to parole violations and provide drug treatment for nonviolent offenders instead of building more prisons.

In Arkansas, which reduced its prison population by just over 1,400 inmates in 2012, legislators in 2011 also passed a package of laws softening sentencing guidelines for low-level offenders and steering them to diversion programs.

“It’s a great example of a state that made some deliberate policy choices to say we can actually reduce recidivism and cut our prison group at the same time,” Mr. Gelb said.

www.nytimes.com...

I think the only fair conclusion to be drawn is that corporations had nothing to do with the increase in incarceration beginning in the 1970s. Rather it was pushed by fears of rampant drug use and urban violence.

Now, states are taking a different approach, and regardless of what corporations may want, the prison population has been falling for the last three years. This makes me believe that the Corporations are not behind sentencing, or controlling anything, and the states are turning towards not jailing non-violent offenders and providing more rehabilitation. It looks like the problem is being solved.

This does not address JanAmosComenius's comments that we are failing to be sufficiently capitalistic Christians. Of course, I can listen to a lot of that and I hope he expands his thinking to other sectors of society and the government.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Been looking into it today and did come across one article you might want to look into.

Alex Friedmann, associate editor of Prison Legal News, says prison labor is part of a “confluence of similar interests” among politicians and corporations, long referred to as the “prison industrial complex.” As decades of model legislation reveals, ALEC has been at the center of this confluence. “This has been ongoing for decades, with prison privatization contributing to the escalation of incarceration rates in the US,” Friedmann says. Just as mass incarceration has burdened American taxpayers in major prison states, so is the use of inmate labor contributing to lost jobs, unemployment and decreased wages among workers—while corporate profits soar. Mike Elk and Bob Sloan August 1, 2011

The Hidden History of ALEC and Prison Labor / the nation

Somewhat more familiar is ALEC’s instrumental role in the explosion of the US prison population in the past few decades. ALEC helped pioneer some of the toughest sentencing laws on the books today, like mandatory minimums for non-violent drug offenders, “three strikes” laws, and “truth in sentencing” laws. In 1995 alone, ALEC’s Truth in Sentencing Act was signed into law in twenty-five states. (Then State Rep. Scott Walker was an ALEC member when he sponsored Wisconsin's truth-in-sentencing laws and, according to PR Watch, used its statistics to make the case for the law.)

Was it at the same time laws were changed that allowed private industry to use inmates that sentencing went bunkers?
Was that just by chance?

This Prison Industries Act as printed in ALEC’s 1995 state legislation sourcebook, “provides for the employment of inmate labor in state correctional institutions and in the private manufacturing of certain products under specific conditions.” These conditions, defined by the PIE program, are supposed to include requirements that “inmates must be paid at the prevailing wage rate” and that the “any room and board deductions…are reasonable and are used to defray the costs of inmate incarceration.”

What's more, several states are looking to replace public sector workers with prison labor. In Wisconsin Governor Walker’s recent assault on collective bargaining opened the door to the use of prisoners in public sector jobs in Racine, where inmates are now doing landscaping, painting, and other maintenance work.

Whole lot more in the article. Let me know what you think.. Thanks.

This is bullsheetz ... I recently watched a story about Goodwill and how the company CEO and others were raking in millions a year while they make handicapped workers work for less than min wage..........

I quit donating there and give free stuff directly to the poor ....

reply to post by donlashway

Dear donlashway,

Thanks very much, I had to give you a star for the lead. But, man, am I having a tough time getting those two articles to fit together. I'm going to have to ask for your help in reaching understanding here. I'm not prepared for an argument, I'm still trying to figure out what's true.

The Nation article seems to be saying that ALEC pressured states around the country to adopt the prisoner labor practices under discussion here. They did this to provide cheap labor for industry. Somehow, either ALEC or industry got the states and the Feds to toughen their penalties so that there would be more and more prisoners available to work, and incarceration rates are growing.

Have I got that right? I'm not sure, feel free to correct me.

The New York Times article reports that prison populations have been falling in each of the last three years. This is because the states are reducing sentences for non-violent offenders, and offering more probation and similar methods as an alternative to prison. These two articles don't seem to agree.

A couple of side thoughts. If, as The Nation implies, ALEC is the large conservative force pressuring states and the Feds to pass bills they really don't like, how are we getting such goofy bills in the last few years? Could ALEC, with all its power, not persuade one Democrat to vote against Obamacare? And if they were responsible for getting the states to increase incarceration rates, how are the states resisting them now, and lowering their rates?

Second, the big objection expressed by The Nation seems to be that by letting prisoners work for less than market wages, it hurts employment and wages for non-imprisoned Americans.

“It’s bad enough that our companies have to compete with exploited and forced labor in China,” says Scott Paul Executive Director of the Alliance for American Manufacturing, a coalition of business and unions. “They shouldn’t have to compete against prison labor here at home."

Just as mass incarceration has burdened American taxpayers in major prison states, so is the use of inmate labor contributing to lost jobs, unemployment and decreased wages among workers—while corporate profits soar.

I'm just guessing, so feel free to correct me, but I would think that cheap labor in China and the rest of Asia, and the illegals in the US, would have far more of an impact than our prisoners. Besides, what are they calling for? Raising the wages of the prisoners wouldn't do anything to change the unemployment effects. Any working prisoner is one less non-prisoner American working. I thought we wanted them working as part of their rehabilitation.

And if we pay them the same as those on the outside, what is the incentive for businesses to use prisoners? Why not let them just sit and give the jobs to others, say, in Detroit?

Again, I appreciate the link, but I'm confused. Help would be appreciated.

With respect,
Charles1952

charles1952
One of my problems is that I'm not quick to understand things that are obvious to other people. This thread is an example. In short, what is it, specifically, that's wrong here?

Do people believe that corporations are causing illegal arrests of people so the corporations can profit?

Is the belief that somebody is causing illegal arrests? Who?

Is it that re-spooling ribbons, tying bows, or hammering together furniture is cruel and unusual punishment?

Perhaps the problem is that prisoners aren't getting union wages?

I'm not saying everything is right. What I'm saying is that everybody is saying that it's wrong, and I'm trying to find out why it's wrong.

Our prison population is the largest, and is still growing. Corporations (privatized prisons e.g.) lobby billions of dollars a year to keep marijuana and other drugs illegal and with very steep penalties, as well as for other infractions - for harsher penalties. Prison labor makes the prison money, that goes towards lobbying, which helps fill prisons. Do you see how this cycle could be bad? They already get money for each cot that is filled, do we need to let them make more as a source for cheap labor?

The first privatized prison was founded in 1983. From the year 1988 to 2000, the number of drug offenders in state or federal prison multiplied by 12 times. I'm not saying that they are the sole reason for this, but there is a connection.

People that profit from how many people are incarcerated, should not also have political power to increase the amount of people that are incarcerated. Let alone rent them out to other businesses for what comes down to slave labor. There need to be incentives in this country to keep people out of prison.

reply to post by jessejamesxx

Dear jessejamesxx,

Thanks for your response, I'm glad you bothered to take the time. I'm pretty sure you didn't have time to check the New York Times article I mentioned above, but I'd like to hear what your understanding of it is.

I agree that our prison population is the largest, but the article claims that the prison population has been falling for the last three years, Perhaps the problem is being solved?

I wonder also about

Corporations (privatized prisons e.g.) lobby billions of dollars a year to keep marijuana and other drugs illegal and with very steep penalties, as well as for other infractions - for harsher penalties.

All corporations' total expenditures for all lobbying has never been more than $ 3.55 billion and it's hard to believe that "billions" go to prison lobbying.
www.opensecrets.org...

In fact, Corrections Corporation of America, mentioned in an earlier video as the largest private prison organization in the country spent only $1 million dollars (or less) lobbying in each of the last six years.
www.opensecrets.org...

The first privatized prison was founded in 1983. From the year 1988 to 2000, the number of drug offenders in state or federal prison multiplied by 12 times. I'm not saying that they are the sole reason for this, but there is a connection.

I agree with you, but what is the connection? Some people would say that as more people were incarcerated, the states found that they couldn't handle the increased load economically, so they turned to private companies to do the work. Many other governmental services have been privatized as well, not just prisons.

People that profit from how many people are incarcerated, should not also have political power to increase the amount of people that are incarcerated.

I agree, but I'm not sure that they have that power. CCA doesn't write the laws, or decide on sentences. And they don't seem to be powerful enough to stop the declining prison population.

There need to be incentives in this country to keep people out of prison.

And here, I'm certain I misunderstand you. I would have thought that staying out of prison would be sufficient incentive to keep out of prison.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by donlashway


I knew this would come to this.

From reading conspiracies about how to increase crime and violence using rap music to get people to jail, through the funding of privately owned prisons and trading their stocks on Wall Street, and mass populating these prisons. I think most of us know that the numbers of prisoners in the U.S is by far the most people in prison per capital, including I think the communist countries, China and Russia combined. supposedly a country which its foundations are freedom and liberty, has so many victimized population who were culturally raised to end up in some prison. What a joke!

reject
reply to post by donlashway

 

however, free board and lodging...free everything, except you, that is

How is their board and lodging free when they are being worked for virtually no pay?

Nothing is free. People who are in prison EARN their keep by working for pennies.

I don't care how many times this is talked about on ATS, it needs to be talked about more. S&F

Well the way I figure it, the inmates are in cells all day anyways. So this gives them a tiny bit of money and a way to get out of their cells to work/exercise.. That being said, I think they should be making a lot more than 25 cents a day. I would say 5 dollars a day would even be good! Cause at the end of the week you'll have 35 dollars to buy their food, shoes, shavers, whatever else you can buy. There's always the barter system in jail that can work to get you illegal things while you're in there.

jheated5
Well the way I figure it, the inmates are in cells all day anyways. So this gives them a tiny bit of money and a way to get out of their cells to work/exercise.. That being said, I think they should be making a lot more than 25 cents a day. I would say 5 dollars a day would even be good! Cause at the end of the week you'll have 35 dollars to buy their food, shoes, shavers, whatever else you can buy. There's always the barter system in jail that can work to get you illegal things while you're in there.

Perhaps you're missing the point. This is slavery, and on top of that you know these corporations lobby for laws that potentially make everyone a criminal. That in turn, equals free labor which equals record profits every year. It's morally wrong.

reply to post by Bassago


As a former federal inmate, I can tell you they DO force compliance. if you don't work, they send you to the SHU (special housing unit) for insubordination. They can take away comissary privledges, and move your bunk/cell to the worst one (right next to the bathrooms). I'm sure there are other punishments that are prison specific, but thats the gist of it.

fnpmitchreturns
This is bullsheetz ... I recently watched a story about Goodwill and how the company CEO and others were raking in millions a year while they make handicapped workers work for less than min wage..........

I quit donating there and give free stuff directly to the poor ....

Don't forget, goodwill, and the salvation's army is staffed by 80% of *volunteers*..
People on probation that have been given 200 hours of community service.
Or here if you can't afford to pay any fines, instead of going to jail or loosing your license
you can do community service to pay it all off..

THAT IS BIG BUSINESS..

Here's what I've always thought is an appropriate solution. Allow/encourage prisoners to work but pay them a real wage. If the job they're doing is worth $12/hour on the open market, then pay them $12/hour. Make them pay taxes on it, and then charge them for room and board at a reasonable rate (2 people in an 80 sqft cell shouldn't be much rent). This accomplishes two things, first it gets them in the habit of doing things legitimately and second but most importantly it eliminates the slave labor loophole. Prisoners should not be worked for pennies per day.

ABNARTY
Kinda' puts a new light on the exploding prison population and bureaucratic foot dragging on illegal immigration now doesn't it?

Two groups of very cheap labor right here in the good ol' USA who have no voice.

Wow you really hit that nail good! Dam star for you!