It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

IF you DO believe in the bible doesn't it proves Satan is stronger?

page: 3
4
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 12:08 AM
link   
From what i have seen, Most Humans value their lives above others. This seems to be perfectly normal, especially if you subscribe to evelution and survival of the fittest (or fattest). It is however, a main staple of faith for believers to consistently make sacrifices for others.
I suppose, with an improper and selfish perspective, it would seem that evil is the clear winner over God. It would seem that everything is evil. If you are ever disenchanted with atheism, or agnosticism, try changing your perspective.
edit on 18-11-2013 by apydomis because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 12:12 AM
link   
Greater love hath no man than this that he lay down his life for friend.

Read it in the Bible and no, can't remember where. Its what I have lived by all my life and feel thats EXACTLY what Jesus did for me.

Its a WHOOOLE lot easier to take a corrupted path than it is to do the right thing in your heart.
Sure it might seem fun, wonderful and profitable at first to take the EZ path, but at the end of life, who is happier [even in the midst of horrible illness]

Define Powerful. If its here on earthe, then yes, power and greed are more corruptive and in the short term, can be pleasureable.

Having free will comes with a cost and I will be the first to admit in this day and age that its not always easy to do the right things, but for me it has been so worth it in the end.

Money is temporary but Love is everlasting.



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 03:37 AM
link   
reply to post by darkbake
 



Satan means doing what you want rather than being forced to servitude like Jesus said.


It IS good to give and love others, but only when you want to, otherwise, if it is forced it is fake anyway.

FREEDOM, emotional honesty, being honest with your self should be the highest good, if you just try to live some spiritual order, then it is delusional - trying to deny self instead of just being your natural happy self-centered self.

Self-centered, selfish, as in, looking for benefits for SELF.



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 03:53 PM
link   
No, it just means you are stupid, deciding for Satan instead of God your creator. He loved you first.

Satan hates you.



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 04:02 PM
link   
reply to post by colbe
 



No, it just means you are stupid, deciding for Satan instead of God your creator. He loved you first.

Satan hates you.


Oh, look, another ill-founded opinion that wouldn't look out of place in a third world country.
edit on 18-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 04:23 PM
link   

Lingweenie
Personally I do not believe in heaven/hell or god/satan. But I don't believe that it is portrayed that he is stronger.

But I think that Christians in particular have been mislead as to what Lucifer's (Satan) true intentions were. Christians believe he is evil incarnate, but I don't think that he is evil. The best word I can describe Satan would be manipulative. Since in the story of Job, and the famous garden of Eden event, he was testing these people, manipulating them, and trying to persuade them. He didn't do "evil" things that we consider today to be evil, such as murdering, thieving, etc.

Satan was the first person in Christianity to rebel. He didn't want to serve under god for the rest of his life. He wanted his own power and authority. He didn't do it for the sake of evil. He just got feed up being a servant. And we humans share that characteristic. We don't exactly like being told what to do, we want to be independent.

Satan actually wanted us to gain knowledge. Which is why he tempted Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. I'm sure it maybe because he wanted to do it to smite god, but it seems like he wanted them to have free will, and do as they wanted. And to be able to attain that knowledge.

Many cultures have had deities that are in the form of serpents that gave to them knowledge, and science, etc. And as you know, Satan was said to come in the form of a snake when he tempted Adam and Eve.

What I am ultimately trying to say is, that I don't believe Satan in the Christian faith would be stronger. Because after all apparently good will always prevail in their prophecies. Not to mention It doesn't really seem like Satan wants to be stronger per say. He is just a rebel who wanted to be the master of himself. He did not want to be a servant any longer. And did not want to have to bow down to authority forever. Because in the Christian faith, there is a strong sense of underlying submission. God wants you to trust him no matter what, and worship him and only him. And if you don't he will make you suffer forever and ever.


Lingweenie,

I love you, I love you, I love you!!!

God has revealed His beautiful plan, He loved you first, He created you. Satan said "no", those who follow
Satan's way choose him. Do you see, it is very simple.

You do God's Will by being love in the present moment no matter the circumstance. This is the way
to true happiness here and what Heaven is all about.

Choose for Him, pray every day, ask Him for the grace to persevere to the end. God will give it to you.


God bless you,


colbe



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 04:57 PM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 


What the hell has happened to you??



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 06:46 PM
link   
arpgme
reply to post by darkbake
 



arpgme
Satan means doing what you want rather than being forced to servitude like Jesus said.It IS good to give and love others, but only when you want to, otherwise, if it is forced it is fake anyway.


You are confusing Satan with Lucifers 'freewill idea' and Gods idea of the human having all access/aspect to good/evil dirivance/experience. There is nothing wrong with the human exploring both sides of the median; so it gets itself into trouble or gains by WHAT exactly; the 'otherside' will deal with the problem of Karma stickiness and or progression of the soul or decompression of everything you worked for (or thought you did). Anything that doesnt resonate as 'true' for you will be false and as you say 'forced'; so you reject it as 'not true'.


arpgme
FREEDOM, emotional honesty, being honest with your self should be the highest good, if you just try to live some spiritual order, then it is delusional - trying to deny self instead of just being your natural happy self-centered self.Self-centered, selfish, as in, looking for benefits for SELF.


Everything is allowed, you live what resonates to your own being, all else is false (its all about you in the first place). To try to do anything is useless, as in forcing something your soul either already knows or is in no need of knowing. You should be self centered, as in looking for your individual path describing your own personal enlightment (specially tailored by you to fit your individuality). Everyone is different and the problem with organized religions is they tend to want to pidgeon hole the populace into manageable groups, steal their money and remain sacrosynct in the endeavor (we built a new something, carpark, addition add on to the church).



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 08:20 PM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 


I agree that may seem to be the perception, but it is not the reality.
Think for a moment, if there was another way God could have solved the issue, he would have.
His justice is so powerful and universal that he doesn't exempt himself from it, to that end humans think why couldn't have God forgiven mankind without the human ransom ? It's a question that baffles the mind.

As for Satan being stronger, God basically said to him, go for it, see if you can do better.
Then Satan's rulership style essentially sabotaged himself. He should have been interested in humanity succeeding at the very highest level, instead he let it all go to a big mess and a total failure.
God has proven Satan a liar over time. This period of time is like a court case where history is the evidence.
And the jurors are the Angels. The evidence leaves them no choice but to say, guilty as charged.

It is a complex issue to be sure so I understand the sentiments of your OP. And at times Satan appeared to be winning, for example before the flood materialized angels/demons roamed the earth in utter defiance of God even having children. In time God said enough and wiped out all evil on the earth at the flood, showing ultimately he would take action, and showing himself to be more powerful than Satan.

As the bible teaches that time is coming again.
Matthew 24: 37-39


For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38  For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39  and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.


The last 120 years of "the days of Noah" are equal the time period of the 20th and early 21st century just before the end of this epoch, without a fixed time, as we are told nobody knows the day.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 10:16 AM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 





God is Love,


NO,

Love and fear are concepts of duality.

GOD is supposed to be all, encompass everything, God is the UNIT that divided itself to see its other side.




If Jesus is God and Judas was possessed by Satan, then Satan killed God.


If one was believe the Gospel of Judas then God asked Satan to kill him.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 05:07 PM
link   
InhaleExhale
reply to post by arpgme
 



arpgme
God is Love,



InhaleExhale
NO, Love and fear are concepts of duality.
GOD is supposed to be all, encompass everything, God is the UNIT that divided itself to see its other side.


Love and fear have no relationship diametrically. Its Love and Hate you are speaking of. The opposite of Fear would be Intrepid/bravery.


InhaleExhale
If Jesus is God and Judas was possessed by Satan, then Satan killed God. If one was believe the Gospel of Judas then God asked Satan to kill him.


Jesus is not God dispite the rumors and the fact that Judas was destined to betray Jesus does not make him Satan; just an instrument of Gods will (imagine that both sides of the coin are at work) exacting itself (however ridiculously to grind into the minds of the human the idea of One God). Jesus was a shill used as an animal for sacrifice just as Judas, they both know it now. Try pulling this scenario off today God, never; not; going to WORK. God is both good and evil, love and hate, fear and intrepidation. God is all things including YOU dispite your obvious flaws is somehow benevolent in the acceptance of them (good or bad). It needs a one handed clap of applause.





edit on 19-11-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 05:32 PM
link   
If you take scripture literally (which you aren't supposed to), the case could be made for the devil winning. Scripture says that more people go to hell then heaven. That means the devil seduces more people than those who choose God. Just looking at the numbers ... the devil scores bigger.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 07:52 PM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Yes but the claim was was made by extension in the book of Job that Satan could turn any human, and God said no you can't, it wasn't about numbers, it was a bold claim that Satan could turn all humanity against God.
And God said just try it. Satan has failed with the scope of his claim, if he would have said well I can turn the majority of mankind against God, but God new that would happen anyways, it was total non-issue.
edit on 19-11-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 02:02 AM
link   
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Wasn't the will of God for all to be saved by the blood of the sacrificed Jesus?


Satan blocked God's will for mankind to be saved since most will go to hell anyway

(Assuming the bible is true)



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 12:20 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 





Its Love and Hate you are speaking of. The opposite of Fear would be Intrepid/bravery.


If you wish to use words and their meanings as words, I am looking at the two as concepts of our mind in their most basic forms from my perceived view of coarse.

This is personal beliefs to me that have been paper mash-aid from many other beliefs before I existed here.


Hate stems from fear, there would be no hate if a consciousness had no fear trying to deceive it and no love to fear the loss of.

Fear could be seen partnered with deception, and love with truth.

Love just is and is not afraid of what it is and fear need to hide its true form so it deceives

Love and hate are the two emotions/thought processes that all else stems from.



That is how I see things at the most basic levels,

I like to look at it that way because its different to what many see,

Just like I believe God, Good and love all originate from the darkness, the nothing, the void.

It is the light that brought duality and knowledge of good and evil.

So its the light that is the bringer of evil as much as the light brought everything else that separates from the unit.


enough of my mad ramblings



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 12:26 PM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 





Satan blocked God's will for mankind to be saved since most will go to hell anyway (Assuming the bible is true)




and assuming in what way you interpret it as well,


In a literal sense it sound like a lie a deception,

if one is take the messages and apply them metaphorically to their lives then I believe the bible becomes true, because you simply experience it to be so.

In a literal sense, I see the bible as a book of death and destruction.

It about the holy spirit and the holy ghost which are meant to be non material, only the material can be destroyed so is that why so many look at the bible in a literal sense because they have deep will to see the destruction of life.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 03:26 PM
link   
InhaleExhale
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


vethumanbeing
Its Love and Hate you are speaking of. The opposite of Fear would be Intrepid/bravery.



InhaleExhale
If you wish to use words and their meanings as words, I am looking at the two as concepts of our mind in their most basic forms from my perceived view of coarse.This is personal beliefs to me that have been paper mash-aid from many other beliefs before I existed here.


Using words never seems to work as allows for misunderstanding. What did I just read (this thread)? The bible is not meant to be for 'literal' translation. YES but few seem to grasp the possibility of abstract interpretations; and in so being should be a good primer for the human to base all actionable deeds upon. I can certainly relate the paper mache refererence. I have a feeling many of us experienced the physicality of living in different locales in different times of 'history' (including absorbing the belief systems present).


InhaleExhale
Hate stems from fear, there would be no hate if a consciousness had no fear trying to deceive it and no love to fear the loss of. Fear could be seen partnered with deception, and love with truth.


Hate and fear, fear and hate all a NEGATIVE vibration that feeds each other. What is the point of letting the human experience or succumb to these emotions? For it to overcome them? We cant always be dancing around a campfire without not worried about the lionesses coming out of the bush to devour us. Yin Yang; opposites force enlightenment (whether we like it not); sort of like being born KNOWING we are to die.


InhaleExhale
Love just is and is not afraid of what it is and fear need to hide its true form so it deceives. Love and hate are the two emotions/thought processes that all else stems from.
That is how I see things at the most basic levels,
I like to look at it that way because its different to what many see.


Love should be a form of 'justice', it is a force not just an emotion. It seems the only way to look at (rationalise) this existance is in terms of black and white, we are human and have an intellect and of course will invent 100 others ways to look at possibles (perspective wise). Those ancient texts were either written for simian apes as a guide to "HOW NOT TO KILL EACH OTHER" or they were written for a much more spiritual being than we are NOW (hense the abstract poetry of the scripture).


InhaleExhale
Just like I believe God, good and love all originate from the darkness, the nothing, the void.
It is the light that brought duality and knowledge of good and evil. So its the light that is the bringer of evil as much as the light brought everything else that separates from the unit.
enough of my mad ramblings.


Not mad at all, I see much deep contemplation admitted to here. Ive sometimes wondered if the darkness referred to is the black hole at the center of this galaxy, or the 'unknown' factor. Does the light bring darkness into perspective or is it the other way around, or is it all about what may lie hidden in the shadows (we cannot determine)?
edit on 20-11-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 03:46 PM
link   
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 



As for Satan being stronger, God basically said to him, go for it, see if you can do better.


A game of chess at the cost of our peace and happiness. That is SO depraved...


Then Satan's rulership style essentially sabotaged himself. He should have been interested in humanity succeeding at the very highest level, instead he let it all go to a big mess and a total failure.


But who gave him that rulership, knowing full well what would happen? Don't blame Satan for how God made him, and don't forget who planned it all.


God has proven Satan a liar over time. This period of time is like a court case where history is the evidence.


When was the last time Satan spoke to you?

I find it hard to take you seriously when you talk like this.



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 11:10 AM
link   
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





Don't blame Satan for how God made him, and don't forget who planned it all.


Every Angel was made with free will and created with a blank slate, Satan choose to go dark side, it was his choice alone to make. The arguments from humans is God should have stopped him at the very start.
I myself have wondered why God did not have an another angel materialize when Satan was presenting Eve with a pack of lies via the snake. This angel could have said this is a lie go consult with God, before you do this. At least this way free choice would have still been on the table, but Eve would have had a less deceptive choice.

So don't think I don't get the POV of why did God allow this ? All I can say is I think God looked into the future at that moment, and saw more rebellion if he killed all the rebels instantly every time. His purpose called for a long term solution that would solve the issue in a very permanent way.

Also there were other angels that would join Satan if he was allowed to live, if God killed Satan instantly, they would have remained behind, God wanted to out all potential angelic rebels.
edit on 24-11-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 02:43 PM
link   
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


So God created evil and free-will but punished people for using it.


Evil includes not obeying God, and Good means obeying but if you don't even know what good or evil is then you don't know if it's right or wrong to obey God since you have no concept of good or evil until AFTER you have already eaten the fruit?

Why would you resist the devil if you have no concept of evil? You won't trust anyone just do things randomly.

Ignorance is NOT free-will.


If I told you to choose


Fsajktfdg or fdhhcsf


And you MUST pick one, you don't know what those words mean or what you are getting yourself into so that is not free-will just forced to randomly choose.



By the way, I made those words up for an example.
edit on 24-11-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
4
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join