IF you DO believe in the bible doesn't it proves Satan is stronger?

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posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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Think about it:

Because of ONE sin, humanity is evil, but ONE act of righteousness does not make a person pure. This shows the force of evil is stronger

God had to offer his son Jesus Christ as a human sacrifice for a RANSOM of sin. Isn't human sacrifice evik? Yet God had to commit an act of evil to make this DEATH in exchange for killing us and taking us to hell.

The will of God is for people to be saved and go to heaven, the will of Satan is to bring us to hell, since most people will go to hell in the end according to the bible, the will of Satan is stronger than the will of God.

God is Love, but Satan can trick God into vengeance and wrath (violent ANGER) by Sinning.


God says Satan is evil for going against Love, meanwhile the Love god tells people to live by is actually Fear of going to hell .


If Jesus is God and Judas was possessed by Satan, then Satan killed God.


Satan tricked God into bringing pain and suffering to a righteous man, making God a liar since he claimed Sin brings death and punishment and yet he punished one who was righteous in his own eyes (Job, from book of job in bible)


Satan proved his point rebelling against God. God IS a tyrant since whoever uses their free-Will instead of doing what eve r God says will go to hell




posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 01:10 PM
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Satan just administers the test, like a final exam. He tempts us to see if we will do something wrong. He puts us through a lot of grief to see if we will break. It is like taking a test in school, is the teacher evil.

The devil is deceit. Not a being. If you believe a lie you are believing the devil. We are all so blind these days, we believe many lies because of misapplied or misinterpreted scientific evidence is used. Some of us do not even know we are lying when we speak.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 01:26 PM
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Dear arpgme - humanity isn't evil, but we do evil things. God loves us no matter what we do. It's all about giving into sin or not. And even when we do if we ask for forgiveness we are forgiven.

Evil is not stronger even though it appears that way. In fact when Jesus died on the cross for every single human he defeated the devil. The devil has already lost but God is waiting to ensure that as many as possible have the chance. I speak from a believer's point of view of course. The end days are coming and God is giving everyone a chance.

Yes Jesus died for our sins. Before Jesus it was all about the Law - in fact if you didn't wash your hands before you ate you had broken a law. That is why there were animal sacrifices - but they weren't enough and people kept sinning. So God decided to send Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice. All you had/have to do was accept him as your Saviour and you were destined to be with him when our earthly life is over. God is our creator - and in his wisdom he decided that was the ultimate sacrifice. Keep in mind Jesus could have said no, He had the choice to step away, and in face he prayed that God would remove him from the cruicifixion. And so ultimately Jesus did die for our sins of his own free will.

Satan can't trick God into anything. If you read the story of Job Satan went to God to ask if he could tempt Job and God agreed because God believed Job would keep faith in him. But God told Satan he could not kill Job. Evil is not stronger than love or God.

God is love and God is pure. Satan was simply an angel that got kicked out of Heaven and he wants to trick HUMANS in order for them to go to Hell and so that he can ensure as many souls as possible don't go back to their creator. That is why we must keep on the "armor of God", even us believers. Satan knows his days are limited and he's going to do his utmost to take as many down along with him. Satan has no regard for humans.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


America doesn't negotiate with terrorists, but God had to. He had to sacrifice his only son and it still didn't get the job done. You make an excellent point.
edit on 16-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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Have you ever tried thinking outside the Bronze Age Bible Box?

As far as 'Jesus died for your sins'; well, the case could amply be made that he didn't die, he knew the playbook ahead of time, maybe underwent a lot of torture, expired but came back in three days, if you buy the storyline.

So where's the 'died' part? If it was temporary? Or are we supposed to figure that if Jesus can resurrect, we can too, and 'belief' will get you through a personal tribulation in somewhat the same way cookies and milk will make up for a bad day at kindergarten...?

And what kind of god makes a deal with the devil to allow the torture of his half-god kid as ransom against any and all upcoming bad thoughts amongst the rabble? What a weird horrific idea, and yet millions think along these terms, seemingly 24/7.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


If you believe in the Bible, God and Jesus are the same. Jesus being the son of God is just a mortal human concept. If you start at the beginning of the universe 10-15 billion years ago and stretch time to infinity God and Jesus are beyond that. They exist outside of time and the universe.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by SasquatchHunter
 


The bible says Jesus is the begotten son of God.

He was created by an ETERNAL being at some POINT IN TIME ,which would mean only God truly always existed - not Jesus.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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arpgme


Because of ONE sin, humanity is evil, but ONE act of righteousness does not make a person pure. This shows the force of evil is stronger.


Paul was saying through one man sin(which means imperfection) entered the world..world is translated from age or realm .Mankind is now living in the physical realm.Adam means man...Man is born imperfect in this age.


arpgme
God had to offer his son Jesus Christ as a human sacrifice for a RANSOM of sin. Isn't human sacrifice evil? Yet God had to commit an act of evil to make this DEATH in exchange for killing us and taking us to hell.



.. this is very incorrect.Again Paul used this phrase "sacrifice to parallel the animal sacrifice system of the Israelistes and Jews and Paul also said animal sacrifices NEVER did anything to bring man closer in a relationship to God .It was a type and shadow of what was to come.

God the Father did not "sacrifice" Yahoshua the Son of God in a religious ceremony.Yahoshua entered into the physical realm where EVERYTHING is fated to die.Yahoshuas was told by the Father how he would die at the hands of his people.That was the sacrifice...being born into the world (realm). The purpose was new birth.Yahoshua said unless a seed is sown and DIES it cannot grow and produce fruit.

Yahoshua is the "seed" of the new man that was sown just as "Mans" seed(spermatozoa) is sown into a female egg causing fertilization and eventually a physical being is born into the "physical realm.Yahoshua is the seed of the new Man (the second Adam) born into the spirit realm.The Kingdom of God.

This all has nothing to do with religious acts(such as human sacrifice) and especially NOTHING to do with the false heinous doctrine of the eternal punishment of hell.


arpgme
The will of God is for people to be saved and go to heaven, the will of Satan is to bring us to hell, since most people will go to hell in the end according to the bible, the will of Satan is stronger than the will of God.


Incorrect.There is no place"heaven".Mankind is "the heavens". The kingdom of God is being "formed" in the heavens of man.That is salvation.ALL of mankind is being saved/delivered from the valley of the shadow of death physical realm.The culmination of one of the stages (salvation is an infinite process) is after the physical death.A few(very, very very few) are beginning to enter into their "heavens" and Gods Kingdom entering their heavens already.


arpgme
God is Love, but Satan can trick God into vengeance and wrath (violent ANGER) by Sinning.


satan means the adversary.You are anthropomorphizing.


arpgme
God says Satan is evil for going against Love, meanwhile the Love god tells people to live by is actually Fear of going to hell .


Completely false on both statements.There is no eternal punishment of hell


arpgme[/i
If Jesus is God and Judas was possessed by Satan, then Satan killed God.


false...God the Father can't be killed.The Son of God couldn't remain in the realm of the dead.God is not the God of the dead.


arpgme
Satan tricked God into bringing pain and suffering to a righteous man, making God a liar since he claimed Sin brings death and punishment and yet he punished one who was righteous in his own eyes (Job, from book of job in bible).


The book of Job is is an allegory of mankind.The man Job never lived.


arpgme
Satan proved his point rebelling against God. God IS a tyrant since whoever uses their free-Will instead of doing what ever God says will go to hell .


God is not a tyrant regardless of the fact that mankind does not have a free will.



edit on 16-11-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


My reading of the bible has always suggested to me that god has equals that were not created by him.

1. There's the whole man could become "like us" if he ate of both the tree of knowledge and the tree of life thing in Genesis,
2. God seems unable to undo things, such as the creation of Satan or the prospective eating from the tree of life by humans.
3. Angels are not among the list of things that god creates along with heaven and earth,
4. There's the very fact that an angel would try to fight god- how/why do you fight an invincible omnipotent being who knows what you're thinking and can blink you out of existence at will?

I think Christianity has denied and twisted its roots for so long that the different texts are really no longer reconcilable- the remaining traces of polytheism and Gnosticism are the issue in this case.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 02:41 PM
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Forgetting for a moment that Christianity itself is loosely based off of pagan ideology and ritual. The devil, like God are engaged in a game of sorts for the souls of mankind. Neither one can mess with free will. It is our choices that dictate whether evil is prevalent in our lives or not.

God gave us this gift of discernment and the gift of Jesus to help guide our moral compass. Through Jesus we can be saved, sinners abound. Only if we recognize that sin however and accept the love of God. Each one of us carries both the love of God and the stigma of the devil within our very hearts and minds. Its what we do with it that matters most. Again you have a choice.

The bible is a full on instruction manual from GOD. And like most instruction manuals it warns you of the perils of living with evil. It is meant to warn you that if you make toast in the bathtub, you may get electrocuted. But if you follow instructions as close as possible, you can make your toast by the vanity and eat it in the bath tub with no real ill effects to you.

Remember God is love, the devil is everything else that is wrong with society in the absence of love.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 02:47 PM
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The Vagabond
reply to post by arpgme
 


I think Christianity has denied and twisted its roots for so long that the different texts are really no longer reconcilable- the remaining traces of polytheism and Gnosticism are the issue in this case.


A more fair statement if any ever before it. And correct in assumption. After all most of Christianity holidays are made after pagan ones...especially the main ones that are in the name of Jesus which I find slightly hypocritical to the doctrine set forth by flawed mans closed interpretation.

To name a few examples.... Christmas, Easter, funerals, weddings



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by signalfire
 


Whether you believe it or not is a personal choice.

The narrative of the Bible, is like this. God created everything, after God created man he lived among man visited man, however you want to interpret it. Point being is man was not separated from his creator. After the fall of man in the garden of eve. God casts man out of his presence, was their a magical garden I don't know. The point of the story is that their is a separation of creator and creation.

The narrative after the fall and before Jesus. This is the story of man separated from God, and the struggles and problems they face in his absence. Death disease, hate, greed lust, the concept of sin and its effects. None of these things exist in the prescense of God. Man chose to go his own way. This is the concept of free will. What makes the creators works more special than any others.

The narrative of Jesus is Gods return to man. Born a mortal human on earth and living among his creations you can call him a half god son or whatever but the point of the story is its another separation. God is seperating himself in a way that makes it possible to be in the presence of man. This is the bridge God has built for man where man has tried to criss that divide and failed.

Jesus dieng on the cross for the sins of man. The point of the story is God is making himself inseparable from man without destroying free will.
Everyone will be able to rejoin God regardless of the path they choose. They will never be able to be in his precense without accepting that piece of him that makes it possible.

You can pick the Book apart all day long and argue every little detail. The main point of the entire book makes much more sense.

Also as other posters have eluded to Satan a fallen angel or the embodiment of sin or however you want to interpret it. The point once again is that going your own way that is not Gods way is another separation. The same as fallen angel being cast from Gods presence as a separation or following that embodiment of sin is separating yourself. Until you decide for yourself of your own freewill that Gods way is the only way.
edit on 09pm09q000000pm302013-11-16T15:07:09-06:000303 by SasquatchHunter because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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Personally I do not believe in heaven/hell or god/satan. But I don't believe that it is portrayed that he is stronger.

But I think that Christians in particular have been mislead as to what Lucifer's (Satan) true intentions were. Christians believe he is evil incarnate, but I don't think that he is evil. The best word I can describe Satan would be manipulative. Since in the story of Job, and the famous garden of Eden event, he was testing these people, manipulating them, and trying to persuade them. He didn't do "evil" things that we consider today to be evil, such as murdering, thieving, etc.

Satan was the first person in Christianity to rebel. He didn't want to serve under god for the rest of his life. He wanted his own power and authority. He didn't do it for the sake of evil. He just got feed up being a servant. And we humans share that characteristic. We don't exactly like being told what to do, we want to be independent.

Satan actually wanted us to gain knowledge. Which is why he tempted Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. I'm sure it maybe because he wanted to do it to smite god, but it seems like he wanted them to have free will, and do as they wanted. And to be able to attain that knowledge.

Many cultures have had deities that are in the form of serpents that gave to them knowledge, and science, etc. And as you know, Satan was said to come in the form of a snake when he tempted Adam and Eve.

What I am ultimately trying to say is, that I don't believe Satan in the Christian faith would be stronger. Because after all apparently good will always prevail in their prophecies. Not to mention It doesn't really seem like Satan wants to be stronger per say. He is just a rebel who wanted to be the master of himself. He did not want to be a servant any longer. And did not want to have to bow down to authority forever. Because in the Christian faith, there is a strong sense of underlying submission. God wants you to trust him no matter what, and worship him and only him. And if you don't he will make you suffer forever and ever.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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The Bible Is The Holy Science.




posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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What I find ironic is that Christianity is supposed to give you life, but the path to that life is through a man's death. Jesus calls himself the truth, the way, and the life, yet Christianity teaches that the most important part was his death. "He died for our sins" will be the answer you get when asking a Christian what was so great about Jesus 99.9999% of the time.

In short, Christianity is supposed to be a religion of life, yet it is a death worship cult. Christians worship death thinking that it brings life. No, only life brings life. Christianity is a contradiction to it's core. The doctrine is so flawed it's ridiculous.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 05:02 PM
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arpgme
Think about it:

Because of ONE sin, humanity is evil, but ONE act of righteousness does not make a person pure. This shows the force of evil is stronger

God had to offer his son Jesus Christ as a human sacrifice for a RANSOM of sin. Isn't human sacrifice evik? Yet God had to commit an act of evil to make this DEATH in exchange for killing us and taking us to hell.

The will of God is for people to be saved and go to heaven, the will of Satan is to bring us to hell, since most people will go to hell in the end according to the bible, the will of Satan is stronger than the will of God.

God is Love, but Satan can trick God into vengeance and wrath (violent ANGER) by Sinning.


God says Satan is evil for going against Love, meanwhile the Love god tells people to live by is actually Fear of going to hell .


If Jesus is God and Judas was possessed by Satan, then Satan killed God.


Satan tricked God into bringing pain and suffering to a righteous man, making God a liar since he claimed Sin brings death and punishment and yet he punished one who was righteous in his own eyes (Job, from book of job in bible)


Satan proved his point rebelling against God. God IS a tyrant since whoever uses their free-Will instead of doing what eve r God says will go to hell



Your entire post is a Straw Man Fallacy.




The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.


I am sorry sir, but you do not have a full grasp of Biblical theology, and therefore this could also be considered an argument from ignorance.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 05:16 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
What I find ironic is that Christianity is supposed to give you life, but the path to that life is through a man's death. Jesus calls himself the truth, the way, and the life, yet Christianity teaches that the most important part was his death. "He died for our sins" will be the answer you get when asking a Christian what was so great about Jesus 99.9999% of the time.

In short, Christianity is supposed to be a religion of life, yet it is a death worship cult. Christians worship death thinking that it brings life. No, only life brings life. Christianity is a contradiction to it's core. The doctrine is so flawed it's ridiculous.


Spirit is life. These corrupted vessels that houses that Spirit has to die. Parable of wineskins. Old wineskins can't contain new wine, new wineskins can't contain old wine or both would be ruined. That's what the "Resurrection" is, we're waiting on that promise of a new body for that new spirit.

@OP

מוות איפה העוקץ?

Death where is your sting?

Only reason satan was allowed to kill the Lord was to ransom his people. His kingdom is not of "this" materialistic world. That was the day the Lord killed satan. Now we're just waiting for the aftershocks of that earthquake to conclude.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Your theory sounds reasonable but what if GOD doesn't exist at all, then what alternative description could you provide to describe your observational hypothesis.



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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arpgme

Think about it:
Because of ONE sin, humanity is evil, but ONE act of righteousness does not make a person pure. This shows the force of evil is stronger. God had to offer his son Jesus Christ as a human sacrifice for a RANSOM of sin. Isn't human sacrifice evik? Yet God had to commit an act of evil to make this DEATH in exchange for killing us and taking us to hell.


Still am trying to figure out the original sin "eating of the tree of Knowlege" that would place Lucifer right in the middle of everything as its progenator. This was never meant to be an 'evil' act it was one of enlightenment (for the human beast to obtain its gift of freewill and not be enslaved anymore as PETS for the demi-gods). Jesus is very unhappy being the sacrificial lamb for humanities NONSENSE-SINS (to begin with) and sacrifice is barbaric as it sheds crytaline life blood in the name of purifying; (under the temples of worship a full on butcher shop to process the lambs/sheeps/goats meat to be sold back to the local people donating); the Pharasee Priests in league with the Sadducee to distribute the meat. WRONG WRONG misinformation abounds.


arpgme
The will of God is for people to be saved and go to heaven, the will of Satan is to bring us to hell, since most people will go to hell in the end according to the bible, the will of Satan is stronger than the will of God.God is Love, but Satan can trick God into vengeance and wrath (violent ANGER) by Sinning.


Im not sure thats true, because God has no physical hand in this. The illiterate human is to find its way to God how? Think back 3000 years ago, how does one without knowledge of writing or epistles find its way to heaven? Through a priest or a shaman or all by itself? What is hell other than what is created for itelf in fear as a human thinking it/manefesting it into being or another pounds the concept into them with powerplays, Church or Feifdom Overlords?


arpgme

God says Satan is evil for going against Love, meanwhile the Love god tells people to live by is actually Fear of going to hell .
If Jesus is God and Judas was possessed by Satan, then Satan killed God. Satan tricked God into bringing pain and suffering to a righteous man, making God a liar since he claimed Sin brings death and punishment and yet he punished one who was righteous in his own eyes (Job, from book of job in bible)


God can truely say Satan is evil (if they both actually exist)
because Man created the idea of Satan and God put up with it and allowed it. I dont think there was any trickery it was a plan to test the mettle of the human.


arpgme
Satan proved his point rebelling against God. God IS a tyrant since whoever uses their free-Will instead of doing what eve r God says will go to hell.


Lucifer rebelled against Gods will (for the human to remain a PUPPET PET FAVORITE within the animal Kingdom). The IDEA of Satan is entirely Man-made. I fight with God all of the time; scream fests. "why all of the falsehoods the inequities, why not proclaim yourself as existing?"

"I have proclaimed myself and you know it as well as I do, it is for the others to figure this comedy out, as Im right here in front of them that so chooses to read this". Origin 16 nov 13.

I have to interrupt this strawberry shortcake dialoge, what you thought was 'a god of this Universe' is no longer; Origin created the one that is no longer-its the boss of the past boss and is trying to correct the corruption that has taken place. No need to answer any of this..too hard to believe even for me but true (all that had to be done is expose it as an ideaform) puncturing a huge lie foisted upon this dimension.



edit on 16-11-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


This is beside the point though. Christianity celebrates a man's death, that's called death worship. Jesus' message was about life not death, so it's weird that Christianity focuses on the opposite of his teachings, which is his death.

Only life brings life, you've never seen a dead woman give birth to a baby have you? So how can you believe that a man's death brought life? It makes no sense.





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