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Is religion a mental disorder?

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posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



it's not a judgment... it's an observation.

It's uneducated crap. You don't know what you're talking about, so, do yourself a favor, and don't talk about it.

edit on 11/25/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

For further consideration. Some common disorders ....
Anxiety Disorders
Mood Disorders
Psychotic Disorders
Eating Disorders
Impulse Control and Addiction Disorders
Personality Disorders
Adjustment Disorders
Factitious Disorders
Sexual and Gender Disorders
Somatoform Disorders
Tic Disorders

For further reading ...
WebMD Common Disorders
DSM-IV Mental Health Disorders

What the DSM-5 says is a 'mental disorder' ....

"A mental disorder is a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities. An expectable or culturally approved response to a common stressor or loss, such as the death of a loved one, is not a mental disorder. Socially deviant behavior (e.g., political, religious, or sexual) and conflicts that are primarily between the individual and society are not mental disorders unless the deviance or conflict results from a dysfunction in the individual, as described above. "

WILDTIMES .. you'll find this interesting ... as you know, depression is a disorder and this information says that religion/spirituality can help people OVERCOME THAT DISORDER. Interesting, eh??
US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health - The Relationship of Religion and Mental Disorders

The results of this study suggest that depressive episodes often lead to a search for spirituality and that religion may be helpful in overcoming depression or becoming less vulnerable to relapsing. The associations between religion, spiritual values, and mental health have not been fully elucidated and warrant further exploration.


our study did not confirm any associations between spirituality/religion and past mental disorders or indicate any significant relationship between anxiety disorder and spiritual values.


Talking about disorder rates within the groups ...
Catholics have higher rates of depression disorders.
Protestants have higher rates of anxiety disorders.
Atheists have higher rates of addiction disorders.

That's not saying those people became anxious or depressed because they were religious. In fact, the information says that many search for religion because they are anxious or depressed and they are looking for relief from those disorders, even if they aren't aware of them.

The psychology field has a MUCH higher percent of atheists then the general population. Those who still follow Freud think that belonging to a religion will eventually be declared a 'mental health disorder'. I don't know why anyone would still follow Freud. He's been largely discredited and his methods (especially those "methods" he practiced with his daughter Anna) were shabby. Freudians are letting their own bias interfere with critical thinking. They could take a few lessons from JUNG. (famous for saying - "I don't believe. I know" ) Side note ... I want to read his Psychology of the Unconscious again ... gotta find it and dust it off ...

Freud poo-poo'd the fact that humans need to believe in a 'greater purpose' and we need to believe in an afterlife. It's a part of the normal human condition, and they have been for tens of thousands of years. However, JUNG understood it. He examined it in depth. JUNG - I have treated many hundreds of patients. Among those in the second half of life - that is to say, over 35 - there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life. He understood it's hardwired into humanity to have a higher purpose and a need for an 'afterlife'.

Telegraph UK - Belief in God is Part of Human Nature
Pagan Religious Beliefs of Cavemen.
Evolutionary Psychology of Religion

WORDS OF WISDOM FROM CARL JUNG -
- The healthy man does not torture others - generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers.
- Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.
- The shoe that fits one person pinches another; there is no recipe for living that suits all cases.
- Knowing your own darkness is the best method for dealing with the darknesses of other people
- A man who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has never overcome them.
- Our heart glows, and secret unrest gnaws at the root of our being. Dealing with the unconscious has become a question of life for us.


Interesting ... 'the healthy man does not torture others" ... torture can be many things. Physical. Emotional. Mental. It comes back to what is ordered and what is disordered. Those who try to beat down others emotionally are the ones who are not healthy. And the Freudians who try to beat down those who have spiritual beliefs are the ones who aren't healthy ... IMHO.

JUNG on the deeper meanings of 'Religious Evolution'

Jung claimed to have identified three stages of religious evolution. The first stage was the archaic age of the Shamans. This was followed by the ancient civilisation of prophets and priests. Then came the Christian heritage of mystics. At every stage of religious history, all human beings share in the inner divinity, the numinous. When Jung talks about God, he is really talking about the God within, the self. He was once asked if he believed in God. He answered: "I don't believe. I know." Thus Jung made an act of faith in the existence of the collective unconscious and archetypes and he interpreted Christianity in the light of his beliefs. As a example, let us examine the doctrine of the Trinity. For Jung, this doctrine is replete with psychological meaning. The Father symbolises the psyche in its original undifferentiated wholeness. The Son represents the human psyche and the Holy Spirit the state of self-critical submission to a higher reality. For this myth to be authentic, it must be found in other cultures and Jung found similar Trinitarian ideas in the Babylonian, Egyptian and Greek mystical traditions.


One last interesting Jung quote - Religion is a defense against a religious experience.
That could start a thread all its' own!
edit on 11/25/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:01 PM
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wildtimes
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



it's not a judgment... it's an observation.

It's uneducated crap. You don't know what you're talking about, so, do yourself a favor, and don't talk about it.

edit on 11/25/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


uneducated enough for ignorance to disgust you...?

these are not the values I look for in my peers, I have a tendency to align with those who have a sensibility towards others lack of understanding... and those who are compassionate enough to be able to learn from one another.

maybe I could fix you up better in my auto garage
cars are very unique and complex objects, they seemingly have a personality of their own from one color to the next of the exact year, make and model.

it has been my job since 16yrs old, full time mind you, to look at two of the same exact vehicles that are different colors and determine just what is ailing their systems. I also prescribe the solution and perform the surgery myself.


edit on th071113p1200000011R07 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


Cars aren't exactly people, people are much more complex. Would you hire a mechanic to be your psychologist? I would hope not.



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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SisyphusRide
it would have taken a group of peers to cure Freud's physiological and psychological addiction to his drug habit.

Neither Wildtimes nor myself are fans of Freud. A good chunk of his stuff has been overturned.

One look at his 'psychotherapy sessions' with his daughter Anna and you can see how inappropriate
they were. She had some daddy issues ... and he had some daughter issues. She said what she
thought daddy wanted to hear (sex stuff about daddy) so she'd gain his approval. He should have
seen that ... but he failed to. IMHO

Wanna' talk about REAL disorders ... there are a few going on with those two!



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


Cars aren't exactly people, people are much more complex. Would you hire a mechanic to be your psychologist? I would hope not.


it's only an analogy... but I sure as hell would not pick Wildtimes if I was seeking a doctor.

see we're all individuals, and this individual knows at the very least what they would look for in a counselor or a peer.

cars are different yes, I was only employing case study methodology to prove a point...

and you friend are perceptible enough to determine the difference between individuality and case study... case study is for objects, not individual human beings or animals for that matter.



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


According to Wikipedia, a case study can most definitely apply to people, not just objects.


In the social sciences and life sciences, a case study (or case report) is a descriptive, exploratory or explanatory analysis of a person, group or event.


Case Study

Then again, I'm hardly an expert on the topic, wildtimes apparently has a degree in the area so I'll trust her word on it. That's saying nothing about you though.

edit on 25-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


one can employ case study in astrophysics all they want, use it to determine the motions of large bodies thru space.

it's not to be applied to human beings in regard to the subject we're discussing... unless a human being is on trial in court for a crime where hardcore facts and evidence are present.



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


Do us both a favor. Click on the icon at the bottom of my avatar mini-profile, hit "posts in thread" and read through them.

I am not a "psychiatrist" - they treat with medication and consider themselves "experts on the client" - see the client as "ill" and needing "expert help." And prescribe meds. They are NOT trained in interpersonal equality and respect for the client's point of view. They don't even see them as "clients" - they see them as PATIENTS. Sick and in need of a "cure."

SOME psychologists are trained using that "medical model" as well.[/b[ (I'd say 'most' , but that may be changing.)

Clinical Social Workers DO NOT SUBSCRIBE to that model. They see the individual as a unique person, an expert on themselves, capable of determining what they (the client) want for themselves. They (the CSW) enter into a "contract" with the client, STARTING WHERE THE CLIENT IS, and ADDRESS THEM as the expert on themselves.

Gha.

edit on 11/25/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:25 PM
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If we could ask Christopher reeves what he thought about religion while he was superman and again after he was paralyzed, it would make no difference either way. Death and madness happens even if you sing and smile about it. You can crouch down and whisper to your ceiling or if you ain't got a roof you can pray to the night sky. When there's a cure for paralysis after thousands of hours of studying the religious will still thank god for it weather Jesus came or not.



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



it's only an analogy... but I sure as hell would not pick Wildtimes if I was seeking a doctor.


I'm not "a doctor".

And you're not the only person who has tried to 'discredit' me on ATS.

And if you HAD been a "client" (NOT A PATIENT) on my appointments list, and had exhibited your disdain and dismissal of the "healing arts" - it would not have been a "good fit", unless you had listened to me long enough to realize where I was starting, where I was intending to go, and how I intended to help you.

So please, stop with the libel.



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


According to Wikipedia, a case study can most definitely apply to people, not just objects.


In the social sciences and life sciences, a case study (or case report) is a descriptive, exploratory or explanatory analysis of a person, group or event.


Case Study

Then again, I'm hardly an expert on the topic, wildtimes apparently has a degree in the area so I'll trust her word on it. That's saying nothing about you though.

edit on 25-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


variables and perception flaw the case study and so does individuality... you can have a large panel of 20 shrinks all agreeing upon what they learned in class, but if they were not taught with a balance (Jung for instance) then their method of determination is flawed.

i'm not into zoology much, but Dawkins is... great composure of character right there, he is always 100% correct to himself in his own mind.


edit on th313113p12u31R31 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

so you're an intern...


anomalies flaw the case study and more often than not.

I don't desire to be state educated on the subject, or state educated anything, I value freedom of thought and speech, and individuality and God.


edit on th413713p12u37R41 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:43 PM
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Ben for President!





posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


Social Work Principles
This is from Bowling Green University, which is NOT the university I attended; but the PRINCIPLES ARE STILL THE SAME:

Pay attention now; and know that I am DONE responding to your 'arm-chair' assessment of 'counseling.'
You are derailing the topic.

The social work profession is guided by a distinct set of abstract values and a Code of Ethics. These values are transformed into accepted practice principles for the purpose of informing our intervention with clients. What follows is a listing of nine Social Work Principles and brief description of each.

Acceptance - Acceptance is a fundamental social work principle that implies a sincere understanding of clients. Acceptance is conveyed in the professional relationship through the expression of genuine concern, receptive listening, intentional responses that acknowledge the other person's point of view, and the creation of a climate of mutual respect.

Affirming Individuality - To affirm a client's individuality is to recognize and appreciate the unique qualities of that client. It means to "begin where the client is." Clients expect personalized understanding and undivided attention from professionals. Individualization requires freedom from bias and prejudice, an avoidance of labeling and stereotyping, a recognition and appreciation of diversity, and knowledge of human behavior.

Purposeful Expression of Feelings - Clients need to have opportunities to express their feelings freely to the social worker. As social workers, we must go beyond "just the facts" to uncover the underlying feelings.

Non-judgmentalism - Communicating non-judgmentalism is essential to developing a relationship with any client. It does not imply that social workers do not make decisions; rather it implies a non blaming attitude and behavior. Social workers judge others as neither good or bad nor as worthy or unworthy.

Objectivity - Closely related to non-judgmentalism, objectivity is the principle of examining situations without bias. To be objective in their observations and understanding, social workers must avoid injecting personal feelings and prejudices in relationships with clients.

Controlled Emotional Involvement - There are three components to a controlled emotional response to a client's situation: sensitivity to expressed or unexpressed feelings, and understanding based on knowledge of human behavior, and a response guided by knowledge and purpose. The social worker should not respond in a way that conveys coldness or lack of interest while at the same time cannot over identify with the client.

Self -Determination - The principle of self-determination is based on the recognition of the right and need of clients to freedom in making their own choices and decisions. Social workers have a responsibility to create a working relationship in which choice can be exercised.

Access to Resources - Social workers are implored to assure that everyone has the necessary resources, services, and opportunities; to pay attention to expanding choices, and opportunities for the oppressed and disadvantages; and to advocate for policy and legislative changes that improve social conditions and promote social justice.

Confidentiality - Confidentiality or the right to privacy implies that clients must give expressed consent before information such as their identity, the content of discussions held with them, one's professional opinion about them, or their record is disclosed.

Summarized from: DuBois, B. & Miley, K.K. (1992). Social Work: An Empowering Profession, Boston: Allyn and Bacon, pp. 135-141.



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


NO, I AM NOT AN INTERN.

DOCTORS are 'psychiatrists'. MDs: MEDICAL DOCTORS. Counselors are NOT. They can "get" a PhD if they want, but a practicing psychOLOGIST or clinical SOCIAL WORKER is not an MD. I hold the credentials to be a practicing clinical psycho-therapist, I FINISHED MY INTERNSHIP AND WENT INTO PRACTICE....done deal.

Holy Moly! you are so unaware of what you are talking about.





edit on 11/25/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


yep... an indoctrinated state intern.

I don't see the difference, it's ignorance... sorry I'll get over it



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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FlyersFan
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection
 

Um ... I"m not sure if I'm following what you say ....
Are you saying that a body can run around 'soul-less'??
You are Christian and according to your faith ... that's not possible.
YOU are the SOUL. It's the real you.
(according to Christianity ... which you are, right?)
So I don't think I understand what you just said.



Very few understand this radical truth.
Yes I am soul less but filled with the Holy Ghost .
I have transcended Faith and Belief thru His Mighty Grace.
No you are not the soul, but Spirit.



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by Angelic Resurrection
 


Who gives us a soul and why? Because of "Original Sin", is the soul always, from birth, heavy laden with and condemned by sin? Do we need Jesus to give us a soulectomy?

What happens to the soul after we die? If we are NOT our souls, what goes to Hell? If we are NOT our souls, why should we care if our soul goes to Heaven or Hell?



posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 01:10 PM
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Angelic Resurrection

I have transcended Faith and Belief thru His Mighty Grace.


Well, when you've transcended your local culture and your local religion (Christianity) to the point where you can express yourself through the religion of, say, Brahmanism or Shamanism or Taoism or Buddhism, let me know.

If Christianity is the only local system you can express through, then you haven't transcended the symbols and forms of your local time and place, and your spirituality is merely myopic and exoteric and exclusive, not panoramic and esoteric and inclusive.


edit on 25-11-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



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