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Is religion a mental disorder?

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posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by Eryiedes
 


Watched the video yet?




posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 06:27 PM
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SHgNaTrinityinme1333
reply to post by Eryiedes
 


Watched the video yet?


Of course...I posted them.

-Peace-



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by Eryiedes
 



edit on 23-11-2013 by SHgNaTrinityinme1333 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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SHgNaTrinityinme1333
reply to post by Eryiedes
 







posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 06:33 PM
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Eryiedes

SHgNaTrinityinme1333
reply to post by Eryiedes
 


Watched the video yet?


Of course...I posted them.

-Peace-


I know how frustrating it can be to post vids that few watch. But I'm not going to watch it because any theory of religion that fails to include parapsychological findings is deeply flawed. Since you've identified trauma as the major component of your theory I doubt there is much room in your theory for transpersonal psychology, analytical psychology or parapsychology.




edit on 23-11-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 07:28 PM
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SisyphusRide
this is where our moral codes are derived...



if you look closely above the 4 Greek pillars of life, you will see the word God with his 12 super rockstar disciples flanking God 6 to either side. You may notice the Greek/Christian Cross above the doors to either side also?

it doesn't say "Allah" or "no God" or "Science"



-the Pillars are of the Ionic Order, of the Classical Order.

-the trim around the entire room (small waves) is Ionic.

-the Fasces is Etruscan origin, Greek not Roman.

-Pythagoras was an Ionian, who left behind above all a way of life.

all of the Pillars everywhere in DC are of the Ionic order, the Greek influence predates the Roman...



images and words work better sometimes than videos on youtube, one should be able to express something if they believe it.



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by SHgNaTrinityinme1333
 


As nice as that video was it doesn't mean a thing in the context of this discussion.

-Peace-



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 07:56 PM
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BlueMule
But I'm not going to watch it because any theory of religion that fails to include parapsychological findings is deeply flawed.


What you have done is discovered the threshold of your belief.
When threatened with information that could change the way you percieve reality, you have engaged in the most common reaction to the source of the stress.
Avoidance.

-Peace-



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:01 PM
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Eryiedes

BlueMule
But I'm not going to watch it because any theory of religion that fails to include parapsychological findings is deeply flawed.


What you have done is discovered the threshold of your belief.
When threatened with information that could change the way you percieve reality, you have engaged in the most common reaction to the source of the stress.
Avoidance.

-Peace-


It's not avoidance. It's time-management. A two-hour vid? No way. I don't have time to waste on a theory of religion that can't or won't accommodate the full range of human experience.


edit on 23-11-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by BlueMule
 


It's not theory and it's not religion.
It's applied psychology and medical trauma.
And it's not a fairy tale...it's substanciated fact...all sources are listed openly.
But you are free to mischaracterize this however you wish to justify your own actions.
The only question remains why try to engage in a discussion if you aren't even willing to hear what the other person is actually saying?
Isn't that just called dictating?

-Peace-



edit on 23-11-2013 by Eryiedes because: Correction



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes and Eryiedes
 


THREE EXPLANATIONS (Two of which are logical.)

I can handle being right or wrong, actually, I prefer being wrong because it means I've learned something new. In the same way, I can handle other people being right or wrong. What I don't care for is leaving a situation unresolved unless everybody understands it and agrees that it can't be solved. That seems to be the case here.
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Dear wildtimes, bowing to your superior knowledge of the mental health sciences as understood today, I'd like to explain why I'm having difficulty with the idea that religion is a mental disorder which is caused by trauma. I'd honestly like you to correct me where I go wrong.

Everybody has a trauma at some point in their lives, not everybody is religious. It seems therefore, that the most anyone can say is that trauma increases susceptibility to religious beliefs. But as everybody has a trauma, everybody is susceptible to religious beliefs. This seems to me to be identical to saying that everybody breathes, so everybody is susceptible to airborne viruses. But why say there is a cause and effect relationship between trauma and religion? Is in't just as reasonable to say there is a relationship between life and religion, or mental activity and religion?

The idea is presented in one of the many videos, that when religious people have their core beliefs threatened, parts of their brain shut down. These parts are related to fight or fight reactions, problems with spatial navigation, long term memory and a bunch of other stuff. But it's not just religious people. They mention politics, but there are other groups who go ballistic when their core beliefs are challenged (besides Atheists, as this thread has demonstrated). Tell one member of an engaged couple that their intended is no good and see what happens. Criticize a youngster in front of it's mother, instant death. Walk into a sports bar wearing the wrong jersey.

There is, however, no particular significance to this fact. Certainly it makes a real difference at that instant, but it can be controlled, indeed we require it. "Sure, Suzy called you a bad name, but you mustn't hit." Believing that, when a core belief is challenged, thinking shuts down, is also not evidenced in the real world. That would imply that no one can ever challenge their own beliefs. I assure you that is false and has occurred over and over.

The other difficulty I have is the expansive definition used for "Abuse" and "Trauma." Telling a child that God exists and that He loves him, is trauma only by the definition of a very warped dictionary indeed.
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Eryiedes. For this particular explanation I will say that I have nothing against you, only the tools you are using. It may be that those are the only tools you have, or you've never been taught the use of the proper tools. It's nothing against you.

You have said that nobody has refuted the OP's video. That's not true. Even I did, early in the thread and my refutation has not been attacked, let alone disarmed. But you claim that no one has attacked your proof therefore you "win."

You claim to have given me two proofs for the non-existence of God. I have criticized them both and pointed out their flaws, but you still believe you have proved it.

However, you make a claim against modern Christian belief, and when pressed to find any evidence, let alone proof, you are unable to do so. According to you, you and a friend have spent a total of 10 man-hours poring through the Bible, trying to find some evidence. Failing that, you claim it is unfair and childish to demand that you show evidence to support your claim, and you're going to stop looking.

I hope you can see why I think you're not using the right tools, evidence and reason, to prove your case.
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Now for the non-logical explanation.

I have no objection to ignorance. I, and everyone else, suffer from that malady to one degree or another. I'm also not particularly disturbed by stupidity. I see it as a little like color blindness, some people have it some don't. It's not a source of guilt, or it shouldn't be.

What grinds my biscuits, or frosts my gears, is the person without honor, the knave, the villain, the cheat, the liar, the coward. That, far more than any attacks on my religion or politics, shuts down my amygdala. Against this person I react emotionally. People can insult others with the vilest names and accusations, under the impression that it's true, but when they learn that they have no reason to believe it's true, the honorable man has only one choice. He must, to remain an honorable man, withdraw the insult and apologize.

That is my belief, and my explanation for my feelings of anger towards those who do not take the honorable path



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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BlueMule
It's not avoidance. It's time-management. A two-hour vid? No way. I don't have time to waste on a theory of religion that can't or won't accommodate the full range of human experience.


you must employ the Socratic method


image removed... language
edit on rd170913p0800000009R17 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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Eryiedes
reply to post by BlueMule
 


It's not theory and it's not religion.


It's a bit of both.


It's applied psychology and medical trauma.
And it's not a fairy tale...it's substanciated fact.


You are free to call your theory of religion whatever you want to justify your own actions.


The only question remains why try to engage in a discussion if you aren't even willing to hear what the other person is actually saying?
Isn't that just called dictating?


I've heard enough to suspect that your vid is a waste of time. Maybe you could just give me a bullet point or two? I mean so far I've gathered that you think religion is reducible to trauma. Yawn. What else you got?


edit on 23-11-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Nowhere did you refute anything.
Nowhere did you cite erroneous surveys.
Nowhere did you correct established lines of psychiactric reasoning.
Nowhere did you discredit the research data.
Nowhere did you cite anything which contradicts the trauma medical model.
Not once anywhere...ever.
You like the others waltzed around the facts...nothing more.

-Peace-
edit on 23-11-2013 by Eryiedes because: Correction



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:25 PM
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Unlike Mark Antony, I come neither to bury the Socratic method nor to praise it. The version of the Socratic method that many law professors purport to practice has its place in legal education, especially in large first-year classrooms where it can lead to more active student engagement than alternatives like the lecture method.

Use the Socratic method when it meets a teaching goal and eschew it when it doesn't it.

The Socratic or case method can help students sharpen their analytical and critical reading skills and begin to understand the contingent nature of much legal reasoning. But the limitations of the method as usually employed — its over-reliance on excerpts of appellate cases, the tendency of many of its purveyors to give short shrift to issues of fairness and justice, its fostering of passivity on the part of those students not involved in the dialogue, and its privileging of the professor as the sage on the stage — are serious impediments.

There are Limitations to the Socratic Method



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:34 PM
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BlueMule
It's a bit of both.


No, you're wrong...but you haven't seen it so you wouldn't know. Bomb in the Brain is the four part that I reference but everything I talk about is encapsulated in Part IV. Parts I-III build the base upon which IV is built and there's a substancial amount of material to absorb. There is no theology or religion in that.


You are free to call your theory of religion whatever you want to justify your own actions.


This is just negative emotional reinforcement.


I've heard enough to suspect that your vid is a waste of time. Maybe you could just give me a bullet point or two?


You can find them in the exact same post on page seven but my crib notes don't do the material justice.
Don't take my word for it.
Take Wildtime's word for it...even Flyer likes Wildtimes.
There's information there you should know before weighing in here.
As Wildtimes said, people who understand psychology sometimes take for granted that others do and use terms flippantly expecting others to just know. She works directly in the field and knows what she's talking about on mental trauma issues and the psychology of abuse.

-Peace-
edit on 23-11-2013 by Eryiedes because: Correction



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:46 PM
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Eryiedes

BlueMule
It's a bit of both.


No, you're wrong...but you haven't seen it so you wouldn't know.


You are free to call your theory of religion whatever you want to justify your own actions.


This is just negative emotional reinforcement.


I've heard enough to suspect that your vid is a waste of time. Maybe you could just give me a bullet point or two?


You can find them in the exact same post on page seven but my crib notes don't do the material justice.
Don't take my word for it.
Take Wildtime's word for it...even Flyer likes Wildtimes.
There's information there you should know before weighing in here.
As Wildtimes said, people who understand psychology sometimes take for granted that others do and use terms flippantly expecting others to just know. She works directly in the field and knows what she's talking about on mental trauma issues and the psychology of abuse.

-Peace-


There have been many people who have tried to reduce religion to something that is not-religion. Or at least religion as THEY understand it. The trouble is, they don't have a very sophisticated understanding of religion.


edit on 23-11-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by BlueMule
 


You don't need a sophisticated sence of religion to recognize mental trauma.

-Peace-



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 08:58 PM
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Eryiedes
reply to post by BlueMule
 


You don't need a sophisticated sence of religion to recognize mental trauma.

-Peace-


Well now I'm SURE your vid is a waste of time or worse. You can't reduce something you don't understand to something you DO understand. You must understand them both on their own terms first.


edit on 23-11-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2013 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by BlueMule
 


So you are conceding that you can't refute the medical and psychological data on this too?
Nice talking with you.

-Peace-



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