Boeing 777X setback after union vote

reply to post by buster2010


Got it. "I don't like unions" now means "screw the blue collar worker". Damn and here I thought I was speaking English.

reply to post by alienreality


And I'm not by any stretch saying they're perfect or anything of the sort. They've done a lot to piss me off over the years, and I've never worked for them. I'm just tired of unions saying they represent the worker while they screw them just as much as the company does.

reply to post by Zaphod58


I completely agree, and have witnessed this exact thing there..

They even told me that the smaller Boeing planes were jumbo jets, the nerve of those people.

reply to post by Sammamishman


I can see it going to any of the three honestly. They have a presence already on them all. Long Beach is probably the front runner though once the C-17 line closes. They already have the assembly facilities in place.

reply to post by Zaphod58


When is the C17 line due to close? The timing could be interesting.

reply to post by Sammamishman


By 2015 I think it was. Just about time for the first sections to be started.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Yes - th e last one will roll out end of 2015 - and given the article says that it take 3 years to build one, that means that the longest lead time components "went into the factory" a year or so ago!

[Quote]

Chicago-based Boeing Co. posted a 2012 profit of $3.9 billion, down 3 percent from 2011. Revenue rose 19 percent to $81.7 billion. Growth in its commercial airplanes business has been offsetting shrinking demand for its military wares.

So the company Profits went DOWN at eh same time as their Revenue's went up. Humm, they worked harder and made less money. NOt good for the company, possible not great for the country (hey we are talking toa degree about Defense here).

Oww, I forgot in the home town of the company (an area that the company has poured mony into for 30 years) has kicked them in the teeth. How so you say? The company, willing to share it's diminishing wealth (with signing bonus's) tried to negiote a a stable long term contract.

POW, door slammed in their face.

They did not even make a 4% return on their $81.9 BILLION

Boeing may not be able to move the whole company out of the state but I would certainly understand when they set up a new wing factory in Vancouver, Hong Kong, or Arkansaw.

Boeing an old wing Factory sitting in Winnipeg? Somebody tell the Canadians they have someting other than oil that we could use!

reply to post by Zaphod58
You may want to reconsider that, no further problems idea. The Japanese, loyal to a fault Boeing customers, did not cancel 787 orders because there were no other problems. Besides, there are reports of parts missing or improperly installed. The sensor that caused the fire may have come from Honeywell or another contractor, but Boeing was responsible for installation.

reply to post by Zaphod58
Better an imperfect power in numbers to face the Powers That Be, then the PTB having no opposition. Maybe a read the social and economic history of the Twenties would help. The PTB are dangerous when left to themselves to determine wages, working hours, benefits, etc.

reply to post by Brandyjack


Uhm, where did I say no further problems with the 787? I said no further problems from those locations with construction of the aircraft.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Sammamishman

 

I would personally love to see them move it and knock the unions down a peg or two.

They tried that once before and the Federal Government said bow to your union masters.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Won't happen this time. The fact that they opened Charleston proves that. The 777X will be built probably in Long Beach, but possibly in Huntsville.

Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

It is also possible to work with unions - so I'm glad to have set you straight on 2 issues

Actually it can be next to impossible to work with unions. Unions oftentimes refuse to negotiate, and then expect government to have their back. They usually do. The idea of unions is great, the need for unions was real, the implementation of unions in today's world is horrendous, and they are often times more corrupt than the corporations.

Unions need to be disbanded and turned into a 3rd party arbitration system, where both workers and employer agree on an arbiter that is unbiased, and is after true, fair, compromise.

liejunkie01

Zaphod58
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Unions are a joke and are worse than corporations when it comes to greed and power hunger. They can all rot and I wouldn't lose any sleep.

www.komonews.com...

Boeing CEO Jim McNerney's compensation rose 15 percent last year to $21.1 million, as the company rewarded him for better-than-expected profits and faster airplane production.

Chicago-based Boeing Co. posted a 2012 profit of $3.9 billion, down 3 percent from 2011. Revenue rose 19 percent to $81.7 billion. Growth in its commercial airplanes business has been offsetting shrinking demand for its military wares.

Why do you have a problem with a blue collar worker trying to make a living when the company posts numbers like these?

Seriously Zaph, with no unions, pay dramatically decreases, for everyone. Have you even tried to find a job in todays market?

I am a union sheet metal worker. I have went job searching elswhere. I have succesfully completed a two year welding course from college. Made killer grades and was(they expired) AWS certified in several different welding processes and all positions of welding.

Every job that I went to apply at were non union , every single one, except one, starts everyone out at $10-$14 an hour. The exception being $18 an hour and most with no benefits.

I mean really, blame the workers and not the company?????

It's alright for a company to make billions and Ceo's to make tens of millions, but when the employee, that makes the product, wants nothing more than a decent living, is belittled and shamed?

I feel people like you are out of touch with the real market today. Skilled labor deserves more than $14 an hour. Sorry but beliefs like yours is driving this country under because unions are becoming rarer and people cant make it on minimum wage. Add free trade and profit perks for allowing corporations to move out of country and do business as usual here at home is straight killing us.

We need good paying jobs to bring this economy back.

But what do I know, i'm part of the problem, right?

False. South Carolina is a non union (right to work) state. Boeing pays about 15% less in SC than in northern states. That is right in line with cost of living adjustment, meaning the non union SC workers make the same as the union workers. Except they don't pay union fees.

Zaphod58
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Won't happen this time. The fact that they opened Charleston proves that. The 777X will be built probably in Long Beach, but possibly in Huntsville.

If I am not mistaken Charleston was opened after Boeing was forced to cave to union demands. Charleston was shut down for a period of time, for no reason whatsoever, other than to illegally force Boeing to cave.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Charleston was shut down after Boeing bought it out completely from Vought and Spirit. They shut it down themselves while they reset the 787 production, because they had so many problems with the parts coming out of there.

Zaphod58
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Charleston was shut down after Boeing bought it out completely from Vought and Spirit. They shut it down themselves while they reset the 787 production, because they had so many problems with the parts coming out of there.

Are you sure Boeing was not forced to stop the production line in Charleston? The NLRB sued to force them to. I was under the impression that they were ordered to temporarily halt the production of the 787 (and could continue other productions).
www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


They tried to shut it down. The attempt was dropped after a new contract was signed. The only time Charleston was shut down was to restructure under Boeing, instead of the three companies.

Zaphod58
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

They tried to shut it down. The attempt was dropped after a new contract was signed. The only time Charleston was shut down was to restructure under Boeing, instead of the three companies.

Well, I was mistaken, but I think the point is still valid. They were suing them to force them to shut it down, and only stopped after Boeing caved in to the union (I assume you mean new contract with the union).

I would love to think you are right, and they would not try it again, but as long as the current administration is in power I would not be surprised to see it happen again.

Another tidbit for all you pro-union people. In Massachusetts people have tried for years to have merit based incentives for teachers. Basically the better you perform as a teacher, the more you are rewarded. The goal is to do a better job at teaching our children. The union destroys the idea saying no, every teacher will be payed on seniority whether they are the best teacher in the world or the worst, we don't care. Damn those evil parents and children!