Boeing 777X setback after union vote

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posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 06:27 AM
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Boeing, who hopes to announce the 777X next week at the Dubai airshow, suffered a setback when the union voted down a contract extension yesterday by an overwhelming margin. Boeing offered the union an extension that included a $10,000 signing bonus, as well as a solid contract through 2024 to retain production of the wing as well as assembly of the aircraft in Puget Sound. The current 777 fleet is assembled there.

This means Boeing will have to find an outside location to assemble the new wing and fuselage for the aircraft. Other possibilities include Hunstville, Alabama, Long Beach, California where the C-17 line will be closing soon, or Charleston, South Carolina where the second 787 line is located. There is also a proposal by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries to assemble the wings in Japan and ship them to the US.


Boeing says the Nov. 13 decision by the International Association of Machinists & Aerospace Workers (IAM) to reject a long term contract extension deal gives it “no choice” but to look at alternate sites away from the Seattle, Wash., area to assemble the 777X and its composite wing.

The ‘no’ vote is a setback for the company which expects to officially launch the 777X at the Dubai air show early next week. Boeing had hoped to cement a deal in advance of the program go-ahead, and the contract rejection adds a new level of complication and uncertainty to the planning process for the re-engined, re-winged 777 derivative.

Although the vote was substantially against the deal by a margin of 67% to 33%, the IAM is expected to seek further talks with Boeing over a compromise deal as part of further efforts to retain the work in the Puget Sound area. However, the rejection of the deal, which would have extended the IAM contract from 2016 to 2024, means that any revised contract must now compete with financial packages designed to lure production of Boeing’s largest ever twinjet to alternate sites.

Boeing 777X




posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


This seems to happen a lot around here. Boeing offers the unions a deal and the unions reject the deal to re-negotiate the deal. The deal Boeing was offering to the machinist union also saw a reduction in health benefits and switching over from a pension plan to a 401K plan. I think those are the main reasons the machinist union rejected the deal.
The State legislation already approved a multibillion dollar tax incentive for Boeing over the life of the contract, I suspect Boeing will come back to the table and hash out something with the machinist union.
The word around here from union workers is that Boeing was bluffing when they threatened to move the 777x production somewhere else. I hope they were right in calling a Boeing bluff, if not the unions are shooting themselves in the foot.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by Sammamishman
 


I would personally love to see them move it and knock the unions down a peg or two.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I'm by no means a union fan either but it would be nice to keep in my area to boost our economy.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 02:45 PM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by Sammamishman
 


I would personally love to see them move it and knock the unions down a peg or two.


Because you prefer multinational corporations to blue collar workers??



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I'm sorry I didn't realize it's either unions or multinational corporations, with nothing in between. Stupid me, I thought it was possible to do the work without unions. Thanks for setting me straight.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


It is also possible to work with unions - so I'm glad to have set you straight on 2 issues



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Unions are a joke and are worse than corporations when it comes to greed and power hunger. They can all rot and I wouldn't lose any sleep.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 05:28 PM
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See as McNerney got his job by promising to bust the Union. The deal was designed to increase his performance pay not help the company. Remember many of the 787 in trouble came out of the South Carolina plant, not Everett. Southern workers long ago adopted the Soviet motto, they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work. As for Unions, you of little history, It seems the War Production and Fifties prosperity were partly supported by the Unionization of America. The Unions are getting busted or worked around, products are getting shoddy and living standards are going down. The big money at the top has to be matched by organization at the lower levels. Funny, during the Fifties the top tax bracket paid nearly 50%. There wasn't half the complaining then as there is now, about taxes. Things work better, when everyone is pulling a fair share of the load; not wanting special privileges because their investments aren't supporting them like in their fantasies.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Brandyjack
 


The problem with the 787 came from Spirit and Vought, not the Boeing facility there. Vought and Boeing started a joint facility that Boeing eventually bought, and turned into the second 787 line. There have been no problems with the 787 since Boeing bought out Vought, and Spirit.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 07:20 PM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Unions are a joke and are worse than corporations when it comes to greed and power hunger. They can all rot and I wouldn't lose any sleep.


www.komonews.com...



Boeing CEO Jim McNerney's compensation rose 15 percent last year to $21.1 million, as the company rewarded him for better-than-expected profits and faster airplane production.




Chicago-based Boeing Co. posted a 2012 profit of $3.9 billion, down 3 percent from 2011. Revenue rose 19 percent to $81.7 billion. Growth in its commercial airplanes business has been offsetting shrinking demand for its military wares.


Why do you have a problem with a blue collar worker trying to make a living when the company posts numbers like these?

Seriously Zaph, with no unions, pay dramatically decreases, for everyone. Have you even tried to find a job in todays market?

I am a union sheet metal worker. I have went job searching elswhere. I have succesfully completed a two year welding course from college. Made killer grades and was(they expired) AWS certified in several different welding processes and all positions of welding.

Every job that I went to apply at were non union , every single one, except one, starts everyone out at $10-$14 an hour. The exception being $18 an hour and most with no benefits.

I mean really, blame the workers and not the company?????

It's alright for a company to make billions and Ceo's to make tens of millions, but when the employee, that makes the product, wants nothing more than a decent living, is belittled and shamed?

I feel people like you are out of touch with the real market today. Skilled labor deserves more than $14 an hour. Sorry but beliefs like yours is driving this country under because unions are becoming rarer and people cant make it on minimum wage. Add free trade and profit perks for allowing corporations to move out of country and do business as usual here at home is straight killing us.

We need good paying jobs to bring this economy back.

But what do I know, i'm part of the problem, right?



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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It looks like the union didn't shoot itself in the foot...it shot itself in the head. After the no vote WA state Republican house members started drafting a resolution to turn WA into a right to work state, which will kill the union and let Boeing hire non union machinists. Local news also reported tonight that the Gov. of Utah says he was in contact with Boeing uppers in preliminary talks about moving work there.
Union members are staying firm to there notion that they are the only work force available to Boeing that can build the 777x and keep it on schedule (I'll bet there are plenty of non union workers that would disagree). They currently produce three 777 per month out of Everett.
I think Boeing is getting tired of always having their union workers walk out for more money and if it could it would move it's entire operation out of WA, it already is going that way with Boeing moving it's head quarters from Everett to Chicago and moving some 787 to S.C.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by liejunkie01
 


Why do you guys love to put words in my mouth. Show me once when I've said ANYTHING LIKE YOU CLAIM. ONE TIME

Oh yes, unions are perfect organizations that only have the workers best interest at heart and would never do anything wrong right?
edit on 11/14/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by liejunkie01
 


Why do you guys love to put words in my mouth. Show me once when I've said ANYTHING LIKE YOU CLAIM. ONE TIME

Oh yes, unions are perfect organizations that only have the workers best interest at heart and would never do anything wrong right?
edit on 11/14/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)


Yes like every organization there is corruption but if there were no unions there would be no middle class.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 07:48 PM
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liejunkie01
Seriously Zaph, with no unions, pay dramatically decreases, for everyone. Have you even tried to find a job in todays market?


Prove it. Not just the wage, but the output, craftsmanship and quality.


Every job that I went to apply at were non union , every single one, except one, starts everyone out at $10-$14 an hour. The exception being $18 an hour and most with no benefits.


Maybe....because that is what that job is worth?


It's alright for a company to make billions and Ceo's to make tens of millions, but when the employee, that makes the product, wants nothing more than a decent living, is belittled and shamed?


Over simplified view of a company. How much money do they reinvest? Do they put into R&D? To comply with regulations? To lobby to change regulations?


I feel people like you are out of touch with the real market today. Skilled labor deserves more than $14 an hour.


Define "skilled" labor. Why do you think it deserves more than $14/hour? Are we talking machinist? Installers? What? Their skill-set and demand determine wage; not what you "feel".


Sorry but beliefs like yours is driving this country under because unions are becoming rarer and people cant make it on minimum wage.


No they are not....but have you ever wondered why your Union Boss takes home millions too; just like the CEOs you complain about?!



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 07:48 PM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by liejunkie01
 


Why do you guys love to put words in my mouth. Show me once when I've said ANYTHING LIKE YOU CLAIM. ONE TIME


Will this do?



I would personally love to see them move it and knock the unions down a peg or two.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 07:50 PM
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buster2010
Yes like every organization there is corruption but if there were no unions there would be no middle class.


Again...prove that! You cannot...define the "middle class"; why do we have that definition?



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 07:51 PM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Unions are a joke and are worse than corporations when it comes to greed and power hunger. They can all rot and I wouldn't lose any sleep.


So how exactly is someone supposed to take this statement?

To tell you the truth I do have issues with unions.

That is why I went looking for employment elsewhere.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by liejunkie01
 


No, I get it now. It's either pro union, or anti blue collar, there's no room got middle ground there.

You don't seriously see a problem with the fact that I could pull an engine out of an aircraft with four guys, replace blades in it, and have the aircraft taxiing in under five hours, but for Delta to do one on less than a day they had to fly sixty people out? And in a non emergency situation a five hour engine change took days? All because of unions.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 08:03 PM
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When I worked for Boeing the last time, A guy by the name of Jim Baker was the president of the machinists union local 751, but then he was caught embezzling millions from all the machinists he was supposed to be representing..
People within the Boeing company treat employees with even less respect than that if you can believe it..

Boeing traditionally offers takeaways in all their contract offers, so this is just more of what Boeing always does.
As a company, Boeing really stinks.
edit on 14-11-2013 by alienreality because: (no reason given)





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